makesomenoise Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 So i've been reading and thinking alot about the emperor's children, competative play and the philosophical approach to combat as expressed in elemental terms. The emperor's children used to be a space marines space marine. Effective enough to rout the laer powerful enough to steal the body of horus from abaddon and take the slaves of the other traitor legions, they serve a god who virtually devoured the entire eldar race and reduced their gods to shattered remnants. But now we can't create a competative EC list? I think not good sirs. I think the ideas of specialization and min maxed forces have obscured the basis of a slaaneshi army. No they can not out shoot a tau fire line. They can't beat a unit of khorne berserkers in close combat and they can't air drop land raiders or creat flying librarian dreadnoughts.... but we can do a little of everything. In essence i'm finding slaaneshi units, and noise marines in particular are slightly above the slightly above average most marines enjoy. But unlike the tar pits, psychic cannons and zerkerz they aren't the best at anything. So i'm thinking balanced armies, balanced "water" style armies to be more specific. Of course all noise marines would be silly and expensive. But they have a solid base as a flexible if expensive unit. So building on that I'm thinking opportunistic and generalized troop types. If you are familiar with balanced reactive forces please feel free to add some input. I'd like to hear input from players who use these tactics and if it feels as slaaneshi to you as it does to me. I'm also intrested in hearing how much flexibility other people feel is sufficient. A powerfisted champion stuck in a squad? Or add meltabombs? Autocannons as a standard heavy weapon? Deepstriking combi melta terminators? I have a personal list but i'm intrested in knowing the slaaneshi tactics of other balanced reactive players and what they've found are solid and semi fluffy choices that offer some flexibility. Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 hmmm...interesting... i kind of think of slaaneshi armies as a bunch of very good, very professional perfectionists-we should be slightly outnumbered but also very good at everything...not uber but very capable. Almost like the eldar but in power armour? if you get what i mean (i know im rambling a bit here!) slaaneshi troops should be unable to outshoot a tau gunline-so they get in close and beat them up in assault (possibly supressing fire from sonic weapons plays a part too?) slaaneshi troops cannot outfight berzerkers but they can soften them up with shooting and then defeat the pitiful survivors in assault... Slaanesh should be very balanced and capable at all branches of warfare... hope this made sense... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3060775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If you think the EC have a hard time, chat up any TSons player who's been around since 2nd. ed. (e.g. TSons have always sucked). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3060796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 i think the thousand sons are prety good in the current dex-still a tiny bit overpriced though..:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3060804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Oh I don't think EC have it hard I think that as a whole they are not being played to potential and so seem to be none competative. But as it was said EC should be above average at all the things with a few specialist units here and there. My purpose in posting was to refresh the concepts and tactics of the EC to reflect this. To seek advice and like minded players who would enjoy adding to this tactical hand book =P So far i've been going with one serious assault squad of noise marines w/o sonic weapons ten strong w/ a pf champ melta bombs doom siren, all wrapped in a land raider. A balanced flexible squad of 7 noise marines 6 sonic blasters and a champ w/ power weapon melta bombs and doom siren in a rhino ( this is my pure flex squad ment to apply pressure where it is needed more than dominate shooting or cc) 3 squads of noise marines w/ a blast master and 4 sonic blasters (5 guys) for objective parking/ long range anti troop support and midrange fire support. As they can move and still fire they can add pressure to assaults if needed or assist with harming infantry at a range. I go on to use an autocannon dreadnought w/ a heavy flamer to pop transports/ troop blocks and advance into hand to hand combat. I use raptors with melta guns and lightning claws to add assault pressure or take out high av targets. I like to use alot of heavy choices oblits , the previously mentioned land raider and a squad of havocs w/ auto cannons and a rhino. Again to apply pressure to troops or transports. If I have the points i like to field 10 lesser damons and a greater daemon, mostly because the lesser damons are a s tough as a standard spance marine in hand to hand and count as scoring units with a 5up invuln. I like the greater daemon because it has the benifit of assaulting what ever it whants. It has no fear of being outclassed in hth. I prefer to take a lash prince as my hq sometimes backed up with a flying blissgiver lord. If i have more points i like to grab up plasma toting bikers w/ a pw and terminators with combi weapons and a reaper. While my prefered armies aren't all "balanced" most of them are either good at one thing and great at another or great at something beyond fear of retaliation. Using the greater daemon i can assault what ever I want tanks, dreadnoughts, masses of troops. A blissgiver lord strikes at i6 anywhere he wants (wings) all of his attacks are instand death powerweapon attacks and he can get up to 10 on a charge. The obliterators are slow but have all of the energy weapons and they are relentless so eventually they can add to an assault if needed (i am unlikely to do that lol) in reality they just have great weapon positioning and flexability combined with multiple wounds and a great armor save. So I either like to field flexible or semi flexible units or super specialists. I want either range or mobility.. if not both and I like apply pressure where it is least desired by the enemy. If anyone else has similar preferences or tricks i'd love to know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3061250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heralds of excess Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Personally i like to play 3 squads of 6 with sonic blasters in rhino's and a 4th 11 man squad with Doom siren and CCW's that runs across the board whilst everything else is held up by the rhino squads. This squad also has my lord with Blissgiver as its really good and also quite funny when it ends up killing your lord. I also have a 6 man Havoc squad that uses Blastmasters (autocannons) to shoot anything mechanical. Hope that helps, as i feel that i run a 'specialist' force where every unit has a specific task. Heralds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3061524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Wow! pretty good tactics you got there...myself i like 6 man noise marine squads with sonic blasters but am currently enjoying using 10 man CSM with icon of slaanesh, 2xmeltas, champ with melta combi weapon and p/weapon...for battering tanks and infantry etc (they are my front line units and the noise marines support them, take objectives, etc...) I5 is a wonderful thing i find..as is bolter, ccw and pistol...;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Although it doesn't happen often one of my favorite things is scoring pinning on a unit when prepping to assault w/ one of my 5 man squads. Doesn't seem like much but you if you pin, just don't assault, next turn fire assault style again and see if you get another pin, if so repeat, if not assault. May seem silly but watching a squad of 5 guys chip away at an enemy for a few turns is pretty funny imo, esp if you're right in their face doing it. Works best on low ld troops but worste case you get rapid fire and assualt at i5 in the same turn... with a defensive unit =P In short i like to do all the things to an enemy unit. focus heavy weapons on an apc or the like until it cracks, then blastmaster/ sonic the junk out of the squad then bolt pistol/ doom siren the squad then assault them. If i have left over heavy shots go to the next thing etc. Of course their is alot of variation to be had but ultimately i want to slow em down, shoot em up and then cut them when i'm confident they can't stab me back. If you have to crack a vehicle with a melta gun or a melta bomb it makes no difference to me as long as something gets hurt. I do have a slight weakness vs av14 i either need to get in close or get lucky to really put the hurt on em but knowing that i don't mind to put all my lascannon shots or a squad of raptors or termicide or what ever on av 14 targets. They tend to be expensive so if i can loose a 190 pt unit to crack a 220 pt unit and not mess up my forces to bad i'm cool with it, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 sounds good to me...and the pinning idea is just pure evil! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heralds of excess Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Another good tactic is shooting a squad with sonic blasters, waiting until there 12+ inches away then moving 6" backwards and shoot in assualt mode and then again next turn; if there are any left. Heralds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 thats a great one too! (you dont play tau by any chance?) do you guys only use noise marines in your lists then? im using ten strong CSM(Icon of slaanesh, 2xmeltas,champ with p/wpn and bolter/melta) I find they are doing ok so far... and a flying blissgiver lord is great fun (i love jump troops...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 All my basic troops are noise marines. I run the one sqaud w/o blasters +champ pf and doom siren. Then the rest are either 5 man blastmaster squads with 4 sonics or a "balanced" squad with 6 or 7 soic blasters and a doom siren/ pf champ. I just find them too combat effective to trade for csm's, i've run both and the csm do bring melta guns to the table but i can have other units with melta guns and they can fly or deep strike or infiltrate, or i can use lascannons or in a pinch drop a str 8 blast on the target vehicle. So basic troops for me = noise marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heralds of excess Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I only run noise marines as troops, although they're abit more expensive than any other troop choice w/sonics, their ability to adapt to any situation makes them probably the best unit in the codex if played 'smart'. And as makesomenoise said; if i want meltas i can get them in other squads like raptors. Plus destroying a Rhino full of marines with only 'sound' is always an impressive feat! Heralds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 The only unit i don't put sonic blasters on is my dedicated assault squad in a land raider, not saying I wouldn't just that i don't currently. I think it's because i've predetermined their role and their vehicle doesn't have a fire point and being an assault vehicle they will definitly be in hth asap. I still do give em a doom siren though. I do still think to myself... i should really put some sonic blasters on those guys... maybe next week lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3062896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 fearless is a very useful thing i find...(used to play death guard) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3064831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Yeah pinning? No we do that to other units. Tank shock? We'll just move out of the way thanks. Massive shooting casualties? We're good, np. Even in hth no need to worry about loosing as long as you make your armor saves. Lol... yeah i like fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3064928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Finally some success. Played an 1850 game on sunday and had a great run of things. My opponent had to call it early (end of turn 4) due to previous engagements so we called it a tie. Game style sieze ground, dawn of war. Ussually this is where i get beat up and my opponent knows it cause he beats me up pretty often. He plays dark eldar. Game is a little fuzzy but before turn 4 ended I had destroyed 3 transports, wrecked 1, ran a squad of wracks off the field, annihilated another squad down to one model, ran a unit of wytches off the field. I had 2 rhinos destroyed, land raider immobilized and my 3rd rhino immobilized. Base count was as follows. He had one unit scoring on an objective, i had one unit scoring on an objective, we each had a unit contesting one objective, final objective on his side was out of range for him to get the point, final objective on my side was with in 6 inches of my unmolested scoring unit in the immobilized rhino. In short in one more turn it would have been mine no problem and i beat him in kill points. My list was something like this. Hq; sorcerer in terminator armor w/ lash+winds of chaos+ combi melta (180) Troop: Noise marines x8 w/ sonic blasters x7 + champ/pf/siren (250) Troop: noise marines x5 w/ sonic blasters x4 +blast master w/ rhino+ havoc launcher (210) troop: (as above) (210) troop (as above) (210) Elite: dreadnought w/ autocannon + heavy flamer/dccw (115) elite: (as above) (115) Elite:(as above) (115) Heavy: Landraider (220) *8man nm squad + sorcerer here* heavy: oliterators x3 (225) Not looking for a list critique at this point, just happy to be ripping it up with a full on emperors children noise marine heavy list =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3079743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 well done! :) nice to see slaanesh doing well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3080876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yep i liked it, text book tactical firing. Blow open transports, drop templates on the insides. Never even got to the point of assaulting. Which made me sad =( apparantly multiple blastmaster/havoc launcher shots to a unit makes them go away lol. On a more intresting note my noise marines did amazingly well in the rhinos. Parked they are a major threat from 48 inches all the way up to assault range. I was able to crank out shots all game, and when the rhino blew i no longer needed the havoc launchers anyway. Went from 3 sonic + 1 bolter+ 1 blast master +1 havoc launcher to 9 sonic shots and a blast master shot. (Lost one marine on one explosion and 2 on another) So they was pretty deadly all round. Lots of shooty kills. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3081093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 im guessing its all about picking the right target and fire and manuevre? (basically its tactically challenging and requires finesse-very emperors children!) well done! :down: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3081603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Yep pretty much just hold your heavy weapons for last. If a s7 shot can get through a transport go for that first, then up the ladder until it cracks, saving templates for last. (Auto cannon, lascannon/multimelta, then blast master) Sometimes just immobilizing or shaking a vehicle is enough for a turn as it sets them back so you can focus on more important things. I like to deploy and manuever in a way that limits my enemies targeting options. If i can force them into a "no good target" scenerio it's best. Also i try to keep an eye on things that can break down my av 12/14 things. I expect the rhinos to die soon but that's ok as my troops are fearless and the 4+ cover save is nice, also that opens up the rest of my squad to open fire. Pretty much I do my best to cover my bum and meddle in their plans, when I see opportunities to really wreck a squad I take them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252343-emperors-children/#findComment-3081749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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