brennus Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 We all know about our Interrogator-Chaplains' powers of persuasion. It's only natural that part of the hunt for the Fallen involves "interviews" with individuals who might possess any scrap of information - even if they witnessed a seemingly unimportant detail in passing and it did not consciously register with them. The exact method of capture, or even abduction, is a topic of its own. What I'm interested in today is what the Dark Angels must have learned over the millennia. Ten thousand years leaves room for a lot of interrogations, and you can be sure that not all of the information that the Dark Angels gathered was only about the Fallen. Statistically, it's a pretty safe assumption that the Dark Angels have learned more than a few secrets about other organizations, from the Adeptus Mechanicus to the Inquisition and even beyond. So, what do the Dark Angels do with this information? Is it likely that they use it to influence or blackmail others to further the hunt for the Fallen? Would they exchange it for other information? Simply archive it and forget about it? Just a thought I had which I found intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DIA! Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Ive read that the Guardians of the Covenent read up on everybody, and they utilize that information to root out fallen at are hidden within the imperium, whether they are commanders or living a civilian life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 My guess, if they are doing this, is that they'd use this in a political fashion. It's possible that something like this could have played a part in the creation of the Disciples of Caliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Id say they have interrogated many but have few precious successes in information extraction.If the text here is accurate that is. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Asmodai#.T7P561K25JQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Ive read that the Guardians of the Covenent read up on everybody, and they utilize that information to root out fallen at are hidden within the imperium, whether they are commanders or living a civilian life Imho, the GotC (whose founding is "unknown" iirc from the codex) are a better choice than the DA to hold all of the data relating to the Fallen (investigations etc). If the DA were "found out" as it were by the Inquisition (an Inquisitor happens to walk through a door marked "Interrogation Area: No unauthorised personnel beyong this point" whilst looking for the bathroom), the data pertaining to the history of the legion would still be safe. Afaik the GotC have never shown anything but unswerving loyalty, and would not be under any suspicion - apart from having a suspicious name :) . Alternatively, they could be the Guardians of the "secret codes, orders, smoke signals etc" which are required to bring the successor chapters together as one legion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Dwr Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Imho, the GotC (whose founding is "unknown" iirc from the codex) are a better choice than the DA to hold all of the data relating to the Fallen (investigations etc). If the DA were "found out" as it were by the Inquisition (an Inquisitor happens to walk through a door marked "Interrogation Area: No unauthorised personnel beyong this point" whilst looking for the bathroom), the data pertaining to the history of the legion would still be safe. Afaik the GotC have never shown anything but unswerving loyalty, and would not be under any suspicion - apart from having a suspicious name :P . Alternatively, they could be the Guardians of the "secret codes, orders, smoke signals etc" which are required to bring the successor chapters together as one legion..... I quite like this idea. If the DA are unfortunate to receive a full audit from the Inquisition, there is less chance of secrets being discovered. All the paperwork is handled by another chapter to give a realistic deniability clause to the first legion. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I believe this bubble gum:The inquisition is portaid as a fool for not discovering the DA.The inquisition can find anything yada yada,is a much stretched estimation. The inquisition may have unlimited power but that stops when it reaches the door step of a space marine chapter.Every marine chapter.Unless its respected chapter master agrees to give them a tour. So to put in DA terms,i doubt an inquisitor has ever stepped in the rock and found evidence of importance outside of it.Or ever will. To be honest i find it difficult to consider that there is a place which is loaded with files containing info on the fallen or the conduct of the DA. After all Ezekiel bears the book of salvation in his person all the time. Its an interesting consept though and i would like to see a fleshed out version of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DIA! Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I dont believe its ever really been described in detail what exactly the Guardians even protect. unless i'm wrong of course. but there could be records hidden away underground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I dont believe its ever really been described in detail what exactly the Guardians even protect. unless i'm wrong of course. but there could be records hidden away underground I dont even believe it is described that they protect something.Not in the codex that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DIA! Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I dont believe its ever really been described in detail what exactly the Guardians even protect. unless i'm wrong of course. but there could be records hidden away underground I dont even believe it is described that they protect something.Not in the codex that is. hmm, i dont have the codex with me ATM, and its only a paragraph or so of fluff for them, but i thought i remember it hinting there was something. i'll peek at it again when i get home. Of course the fluff of DA is filled with "hints" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Brother Immolator... agreed. Fact of the matter is, it's not like the Dark Angels and their Successors go around calling themselves "Unforgiven" or moaning about their terrible secrets and burdens around Inquisitors or other agents of the Imperium. Point of fact, I don't imagine they even mention that stuff around 80-90% of the battle-brothers of their Chapters. "Why are we called "Unforgiven", Master?" "I can't reveal this to you... until you join the Deathwing!" *Que the ominous music* It goes back to something I've always maintained. I seriously doubt any agent of the Imperium has much of an opportunity an Interrogator-Chaplain. To most outsiders, the Dark Angels probably feature like the standard "space knight" motif of the Space Marines: the Emperor's "Angels of Death", though in this case featuring the knightly themes, tabards, and robes of monastic Militant Orders. When you start seeing "Interrogator Chaplains" is when things start getting weird... but those individuals would only cross paths with agents of the Imperium if the hunt for the Fallen led him to take to the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DIA! Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Yeah, I stand corrected. The guardians entry doesn't say anything about protecting something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 If the DA were "found out" as it were by the Inquisition (an Inquisitor happens to walk through a door marked "Interrogation Area: No unauthorised personnel beyong this point" whilst looking for the bathroom), the data pertaining to the history of the legion would still be safe. Afaik the GotC have never shown anything but unswerving loyalty, and would not be under any suspicion - apart from having a suspicious name :lol: . Alternatively, they could be the Guardians of the "secret codes, orders, smoke signals etc" which are required to bring the successor chapters together as one legion..... You might want to take a closer look at the servitors, then. Chances are, you'll find an inquisitor that has gone missing a couple of decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 If the DA were "found out" as it were by the Inquisition (an Inquisitor happens to walk through a door marked "Interrogation Area: No unauthorised personnel beyong this point" whilst looking for the bathroom), the data pertaining to the history of the legion would still be safe. Afaik the GotC have never shown anything but unswerving loyalty, and would not be under any suspicion - apart from having a suspicious name ;) . Alternatively, they could be the Guardians of the "secret codes, orders, smoke signals etc" which are required to bring the successor chapters together as one legion..... You might want to take a closer look at the servitors, then. Chances are, you'll find an inquisitor that has gone missing a couple of decades ago. Or they've had an "accident" leaving the Rock. "Funny thing, those Gellar Field generators, they have a poor tendency to break down when a ship is in the Warp." In all seriousness though, if an Inquisitor was allowed onto the Rock, they'd be there at the invitation of the Grand Master. Which would probably mean they would be allowed to see 1% of the Rock on their own. The rest would be sealed off and guarded. Servitor-slaved weapons or gene-coded locks, hell, even the vents would probably have roving Servo-skulls armed with bolt pistols, directly linked to the Rock's security system. Chances are the inquisitive party would be discreetly led away from vital areas by the Watchers in the Dark and if they did persist, well, who would know someone was in the Rock? I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one servitor that was someone who was once too curious for their own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I think it would be a feasible and a cool concept that the DA know a lot about everything happening in the Imperium. I reckon the Unforgiven own large amounts of real estate, front companies, guilds, worlds etc. throughout the Imperium that are hidden deep and any inquisitive fellows...well, whos gonna miss an Inquisitor? Or, just mind wipe said Inquisitor. This is an area that would be pretty cool to explore in the background of the Unforgiven. Not translated onto the tabletop, but to have in the background, yea, I would like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I think it would be a feasible and a cool concept that the DA know a lot about everything happening in the Imperium. I reckon the Unforgiven own large amounts of real estate, front companies, guilds, worlds etc. throughout the Imperium that are hidden deep and any inquisitive fellows... This sounds like mafia/pimps with robes :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 why not :P Mafia styles, sure thing! Except more brutal ;) I was thinking a little bit more like KGB crossed with Knights Templar (not to be confused with the Teutonic Knights order that the BT are based on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 No, the Black Heretics Templars are based more on the Knights Templar, afaik. Both are groups (Black Templars and Knights Templar) are heretics. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Dirty Little Secrets. We all have dirty little secrets, or are they Dirty, Little, Secrets. Some Secrets are not Secret at all. Dirt is only the opinion of the holder. And how little are they? So, what are yours? Come on, tell us, we wont tell your sisters. You are our our Brothers, right??? Really, are you? The Pueri ex Deus has a secret, we have held this secret since before the Heresy, can you guess what the grand secret is? I hope not. The Inner Circle has known since the beginning, living and dying, generation, by generation. Special members of the Adaptus Custodes, the ]I[, and elements of the Adeptus Mechanicus know, Imperial Navy Fleets stand ready, regiments of Imperial Guard fill their transports. A secret kept from the Ecclesiarchy, and the High Lords of the Administratun of Terra, for a reason, a simple reason. They can not be trusted... The holders of this secret would be considered considered Rogue, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 No, the Black Heretics Templars are based more on the Knights Templar, afaik.Both are groups (Black Templars and Knights Templar) are heretics. ;) Its a bit of both, but the whole purge the witch/religious ultra fanaticism/hate Xenos/burn everything is more akin to the Teutonic Order than the Templar. The Teutonic Order resonates more with the BT, the Teutons were more Germanic, the names of BT are Germanic. The colours are the same (cross is different, though). Templar Order was concerned with protecting Pilgrims to the Holy Land while the Teutons were concerned with extermination and conquest. not sure what you mean by heretics, if you mean the Orders are heretics, well, thats bringing religion into the BnC, plus, I would be interested to see your reasoning.....and if your saying the BT are heretics, well, expect a lot of fire and faith ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 not sure what you mean by heretics, if you mean the Orders are heretics, well, thats bringing religion into the BnC, plus, I would be interested to see your reasoning.....and if your saying the BT are heretics, well, expect a lot of fire and faith B) Not exactly. It is a historical fact that the Knights Templar were declared heretics in 1307 (or at least numerous knights were arrested on charge of heresy). Nothing religious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 ahh, it was all political :lol: The King of France owed the Templar a lot of money, so he convinced the Pope they could excommunicate the Order, burn the leaders, and steal all the cash. Which is what they did and they amalgamated the remnants into the Knights of St John. But I see where your coming from B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not exactly.It is a historical fact that the Knights Templar were declared heretics in 1307 (or at least numerous knights were arrested on charge of heresy). Nothing religious about it. Maybe so, but if a historic reference is to be found, I'd say Black Templars are much more akin to Teutonic Knights rather than Knights Templar. Especially the Germanic references... And as far as I know, Teutonic Knights they were never prosecuted. Templar Knights on the other hand are associated with secrets and mysteries - a fitting archetype for DAs... I personally am not a big fan for the historic references but if any were to be drawn I'd say BTs = Teutonic Knights, DAs = Knights Templar. Having said that, my personal take on DAs leans much more towards a Cold War era secret service agency rather thna a mediveal knightly order - but that's just me B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 and that exactly what I was saying :D except, you put it more succinctly. I agree with you, I see them as a cross between the Templar and KGB and, in many ways, the Imperial Inquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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