How do one use a Close Combat Dreadnaughts?

[lordmetroid]

A dreadnaught with only two attacks in close combat seems hardly fit to do anything at all in close combat. Furthermore Grey knight lacks the ability to drop a dread in the midst of the battle, of course we could teleport one from the deployment zone using the summoning but a close combat dread with flamers or Multi-melta seems like a real waste to be let to wait in the deployment zone. How do one use a Grey Knight Close Combat Dreadnaught?

[the jeske]

How do one use a Grey Knight Close Combat Dreadnaught?

one doesnt . you want hth you take a NDK . you want a dread you take a rifle man or venerable rifleman. other dreads do not exist.

[Dark Bjoern]

I normaly use a ven. dread with AC and DCCW with HF. I put him together with some Purifiers in a Storm Raven. Has worked well so far.

[dswanick]

I normaly use a ven. dread with AC and DCCW with HF. I put him together with some Purifiers in a Storm Raven. Has worked well so far.

No, you don't. thejeske says so :

one doesnt . you want hth you take a NDK . you want a dread you take a rifle man or venerable rifleman. other dreads do not exist.

:P

[Stormbrow II]

I've seen a trio of Ven Dreads with MM/HF packed into empty Storm Ravens cause havoc for some armies as they're so hard to bring down, even with Melta, due to their Venerable rule. Then again the army has no Grey Knights in it but when almost everything is completely immune to S5 it can be a real problem for some armies.

[lordmetroid]

If I exchange a Callidus assasin in my army, I can include a Venerable Dreadnaught and a Normal Dreadnaught. One of them will be close combat while the other will be a rifleman. Which one would you take as which?

[the jeske]

No, you don't. thejeske says so :

dude he can put what ever he wants in to his list including champions with dig weapons , doesnt change the fact that dreads that are not rifleman are bad . Taking a 200+pts transport to get a low A unit in to hth is not viable , its not viable even for BAs and they have claws which can actualy make someone ponder the idea of hth dreads . +what GK lists need is more viable range support not 3A from a DCCW . if something doesnt make sense/bad it doesnt happen .

 

I've seen a trio of Ven Dreads with MM/HF packed into empty Storm Ravens cause havoc for some armies as they're so hard to bring down, even with Melta, due to their Venerable rule

So this means your taking 3 dreads with MM [no re-roll because you dont have vulkan] with the extra cost of a SR which give you an extra PotMS MM shot . thats what 800pts in those if you take an hq this leaves what 500pts for troops 600 if you take an inq . this means you have to player cortez[but why empty SR then why not take DCA/crus and have actualy good hth units???] to have enough troops or your playing with a too low number of troops or they arent good enough[as in not enough fire power .not enough hth power etc] . But let say it actualy does work you deploy 3 SR within 12" of enemy drop the dreads and lets say you smoke 3-4 tanks/transports . what kind of an army has "serious" problems after that other then a death star ? what if there is cover or if is reserved ?

[chaplainmeliadus]

I have a dreadnought with a heavy flamer, twin-linked heavy flamer and psyflame. I call him Brother Trogdor, and despite not being a psyfleman he is not bad. From the back of a stormraven, or suprisingly even footslogging and hugging cover, he's really messed up most anything he's reached (which is most things because people tend to ignore him - more fool them!)

 

He can force an aweful lot of saves with the templates, then charge in with the doomfist. It works much better than it should.

[*Furyou Miko]

I've seen a trio of Ven Dreads with MM/HF packed into empty Storm Ravens cause havoc for some armies as they're so hard to bring down, even with Melta, due to their Venerable rule. Then again the army has no Grey Knights in it but when almost everything is completely immune to S5 it can be a real problem for some armies.

 

What was this person fighting, Elysians with no air support or Sentinels?

 

Tactical Marine squad will either have a plasmagun or a meltagun and that's a dead dread (since you're so close getting around the front armour is a cinch).

 

SoB will have meltaguns galore.

 

Necrons won't even blink, since everything they have (short of deathmarks) will just eat you for breakfast. Literally, in some cases.

 

Tau might have a problem, if they don't take any of their passable units (Broadsides, hammerheads, skyray/pathfinders combos...)

 

Orks will probably power claw you. They might have a little trouble apart from that.

 

Guard will be stationary. Therefore they will have heavy weapons out the whazoo to turn you into scrap after you wipe out the first unit. Or, you know, they might have a CommiFist to punch your dreadnoughts out like the Orks.

 

Dark Eldar could have a problem, I guess, except again you'll kill the entire squad you assaulted in a turn then be surrounded by darklances.

 

Craftworld Eldar, same thing except for Brights.

 

Who have I missed? nids will just MC you to death, and Daemons... well, if you're fighting daemons, you have no excuses.

[Stormshadow]

Of corse GK can utilize Dreadnoughts with CC arms. The only thing is that the left Auto Cannon is so much more appalling. But look at it this way, other codex can also have Dred’s with cc arms, I am sure you have seen them, but ours have force weapons, ignores shaken and stunned, and they reduce the leadership of enemy psykers by 4!

 

If I exchange a Callidus assasin in my army, I can include a Venerable Dreadnaught and a Normal Dreadnaught. One of them will be close combat while the other will be a rifleman. Which one would you take as which?

 

This is a tough question. The Auto Cannon dread will get the most heat and can rely use that re-roll, but it is twin linked with no Doom Fist, so the WS/BS 5 would be better used on the CC Dread...

 

I think I would give the venerable status to the CC dread… and give him a Plasma cannon and heavy flamer if he is footslogging, or a MM/HF or Psycannon/HF (with Psy-bolts) if he is riding in a Raven.

 

The down side to the CC Dread is that you will probably get more use out of an AC Dread, and a Dread knight would be better in CC. The dread knight is a lot more expensive on the other hand, must take leadership tests (for pinning and so on), can’t ride in a Raven and worst of all it can be hurt by S3 weapons. The downside to The AC dread is that even though it fills an important role in the army your forces tend to be divided because of the range difference to most other units in the codex.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I think that a good portion of the usefulness of a CC Dread would come from the Reinforced Aegis being near your front lines...which you could also get from a Rifleman if you really needed it. Trying to use a Grey Knight Dreadnought as a wannabe Death Company Dread doesn't make much sense to me, as being able to get said Dread into CC seems like it would be harder than just bringing Psycannons/Nemesis Hammers/Other NFWs to bear on said target...and you have should have a couple of those in the rest of the army, right? ;)

 

If I had to choose between a Ven Dread and a normal Dread (one for CC and one for fire support, as per lordmetroid's second question), I would probably make the CC Dread the Venerable one, as that would help with the WS, as well as helping the Dreadnought survive to get to combat. Of course, I don't play Grey Knights, so my advice isn't as valid as advice from others.

 

What was this person fighting, Elysians with no air support or Sentinels?

;) Do you mind if I sig this?

[Stormbrow II]

The jeske said some stuff.

 

His list was approximately:

 

Coteaz

3 x Ravens (not sure if EA on them)

3 x Ven Dread with MM (not sure if HF)

3 x Psybolt Dreads

6 x 3 Acolytes in Psybacks

 

There might have been one less Psyback but that's the core of the army. All of the plebs reserve with the Psybacks staying near the board edge while the Ravens float about sniping out Psykers (so they can't stop Fortitude) and vehicles. It doesn't matter about the lack of Vulkan when the Dreads hit on 2's and the Ravens are twin-linked Melta so that stops tanks shooting back. Plus when you get shot at or stuck in it's really hard to stop the Vens because the odds of wrecking one in one shot aren't as high due to that re-roll to damage results and since you have Fortitude there's an 84% chance you'll be able to move and shoot normally in the following turn if shaken/stunned. If there are Psykers that can cockblock nearby then other Ravens are able to wail on them with Mindstrike missiles. MEQ Libbies fall over with no way to stop it other than hoping that the templates all scatter off their bases so you make the VDreads harder to stop again.

 

Their main role is as a counter-assault unit: move the Raven near some terrain preferably LOS-blocking for the Dread and keep it behind it til it needs to counter-charge is one thing I've seen it do. Feel free to expose your Melta units to take it out as they'll receive a hail of S6 and S8 fire the following turn, and get charged by a Dread assuming it survives.

 

I saw an amended one in action last night and it was:

Coteaz with some DCA/Crusaders in a Raven with a Ven Dread

3 x Psybolt Dreads

5 or 6 Purifiers or Strikes with Psycannon/Hammer in Raven with Ven Dread

5 Psybacks with Acolytes

Raven (not sure what was in it)

 

What was this person fighting, Elysians with no air support or Sentinels?

Obviously not. I was going to give your argument more consideration but then I saw you say that Marines might carry Plasma guns (wut?) and they'd have a shot at hurting dreads (6's to pen and no AP1?) but since we're being dismissive let's go through your offerings one by one.

 

Tac Marines: Their transport gets hammered by guns until it stops moving and then the Dread gets to float away and ignore the short-ranged Melta or if the APC is popped gets stuck in and wades through the Marines.

2 Meltas hit, both pen and you need a 4+ to wreck it. If you do wreck it it's re-rolled and if not it's pretty much ignored. You'd better hope those Marines bring it down, and haven't exposed themselves to a charge or a round of shooting from something else because they will die and the rest of the army will have enough guns to do it. Even TH/SS Termies don't like the Dreads as their job of wrecking it is less of a quick hammering and more a slog as they get tarpitted.

 

And before you chime in and suggest that's not how Wolves, BA, BT and other variants fight, I'll say that you be including them in your argument first as they all operate completely differently even though statlines and weapon outfits are similar (Mech Wolves with Fang & Scout support are obviously different to BA Jumpers or White Scar Bikers).

 

SoB will have meltaguns galore.

Exorcists, Dominions and Immolators are the only real problems here as you can outrange everything else and stop it from getting anywhere near your lines until you're ready: all that S6 will hurt your Rhinos. Your Doms are largely confined to hunting Razors at short-range if the opponent deploys properly (OMG! I forgot about your Scout move? I r newb) or else they just reserve and pick you apart. And let's not mention H2H where Celestine can usually only tarpit or take out Acolytes while the Conclave gets stopped in the middle of nowhere and ignored if there are other more dangerous targets nearby.

 

Necrons won't even blink, since everything they have (short of deathmarks) will just eat you for breakfast. Literally, in some cases.

Crons are a problem and that's down to Tesla, Scarabs and ScytheBarges. Wraiths hate VenDreads so it's down to the guns and the little guys that want to hide from all that S6 on the way in. Oh, and the Heavy Flamer on the Dreads. You can always climb stairs to get away from them though.

 

Tau might have a problem, if they don't take any of their passable units (Broadsides, hammerheads, skyray/pathfinders combos...)

Skyrays? Pathfinders? B)? The former use up valuable points and slots for shooty units while the latter are too static and get blown away quickly. Broadsides are a problem (easily wrecking GK vehicles makes them arguably the best counter) but boosting into their faces and hammering the Crisis suits with the other guns will do the trick. Ld 8 on Crisis teams you say? Terrific. And let's just say their Troops will be hoping to cower behind something on top of objectives or at best run at and surround a Raven to try to trap something inside when the Raven dies.

 

Orks will probably power claw you. They might have a little trouble apart from that.

Battlewagon Deathrollas are a problem as are Killa Kan weapons but Melta and side shots are the answer to the former while the latter aren't excited about getting stuck into combat with a S10 I4 hitting on 3's vehicle that only has to inflict a weapon destroyed result to render the Kans impotent.

 

Klaws do sweet FA unless there are a load of them in a mob - one Nob charging will hit twice, pen once, glance once (rounding up) and will struggle to bring it down because of the re-roll allowing the rest of the army to waddle past while the Dread tarpits them. Multiple Klaws: Meganobs? Instant Death. Bikers? Same.

 

Lootas? They've better things to shoot like Razorbacks.

 

Guard will be stationary. Therefore they will have heavy weapons out the whazoo to turn you into scrap after you wipe out the first unit. Or, you know, they might have a CommiFist to punch your dreadnoughts out like the Orks.

Yup. Guard toting loads of Meltas and Manticores are a problem until you get stuck into them, whereupon they fold. The Guard don't like it up 'em.

 

Oh, and Commifists? Whatever you're smoking I want some because whatever's causing you to think S6 characters will tackle an AV12 Dread with negative damage re-rolls in combat sounds class.

 

Dark Eldar could have a problem, I guess, except again you'll kill the entire squad you assaulted in a turn then be surrounded by darklances.

It depends what's in the army - for the most part it'll be shooting at Venoms and Raiders causing them to explode unless it's close enough to Flame a unit of Blasterborn.

 

Craftworld Eldar, same thing except for Brights.

Brights? Those monstrously overpriced missile launchers? No. Fire Dragons, Seer Councils, Falcons & Prisms are your main worry. Oh, and ramming the Dread. Of all of the above it's the Dragons that'll do the most damage but as soon as they expose themselves they die. It's never an easy match-up by any means due to Runes of Warding but it is winnable.

 

Who have I missed? nids will just MC you to death

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/c47/ad3/400/resized/sad-poppy-meme-generator-your-logic-makes-the-puppy-sad-894e48.jpg?1324258687.jpg

Really? Mindstrike Missiles? Nemesis Force Weapons? There's a reason no-one uses Nid MC's anymore. Genestealers won't stop a Ven Dread either fwiw. Hive Guard are arguably the best bet.

 

Thanks for stopping by. It's been fun.

[Valerian]

"Up-close" Dreadnoughts can be good; an Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer combination can seriously wreck face against non-MEQ armies; I've taken out an entire Ork 'Ard Boyz mob in one turn with one. However, it isn't really the close combat that is doing the majority of the damage, it's the short range shooting weapons, followed up perhaps with an assault on the leftovers. Jeske is correct, though, in that you don't want to spend a whole ton of points trying to make that one model effective for you, and it really has to fit in well with what you've already got in your army list. By itself, 2 attacks is pretty weak-sauce, and a DreadKnight is what a DreadNought really ought to have been in close combat (in my opinion). Also, the fact that Grey Knights don't get Drop Pods makes it a little more difficult to position an "up-close" Dreadnought well, without spending a ton of points on a Stormraven.

 

Valerian

[Corby]

No, you don't. thejeske says so :

dude he can put what ever he wants in to his list including champions with dig weapons , doesnt change the fact that dreads that are not rifleman are bad . Taking a 200+pts transport to get a low A unit in to hth is not viable , its not viable even for BAs and they have claws which can actualy make someone ponder the idea of hth dreads . +what GK lists need is more viable range support not 3A from a DCCW . if something doesnt make sense/bad it doesnt happen .

 

I've seen a trio of Ven Dreads with MM/HF packed into empty Storm Ravens cause havoc for some armies as they're so hard to bring down, even with Melta, due to their Venerable rule

So this means your taking 3 dreads with MM [no re-roll because you dont have vulkan] with the extra cost of a SR which give you an extra PotMS MM shot . thats what 800pts in those if you take an hq this leaves what 500pts for troops 600 if you take an inq . this means you have to player cortez[but why empty SR then why not take DCA/crus and have actualy good hth units???] to have enough troops or your playing with a too low number of troops or they arent good enough[as in not enough fire power .not enough hth power etc] . But let say it actualy does work you deploy 3 SR within 12" of enemy drop the dreads and lets say you smoke 3-4 tanks/transports . what kind of an army has "serious" problems after that other then a death star ? what if there is cover or if is reserved ?

 

Death Cult assassins in stormravens have issues. Cover makes a mockery of them , they're easily blocked from getting charges , and they fall over to shooting.

 

 

Also:

What kind of army has the firepower to remove 3 Ven dreads and 3 Storm ravens in a turn? With vehicles suppressed/stunned from the psybacks/riflemen. Without getting extremely lucky. I can see some armies suppressing several dreads/stormravens , but the grey knight play will laugh some of those damage results with fortitude anyway.

[*Furyou Miko]

What was this person fighting, Elysians with no air support or Sentinels?

;) Do you mind if I sig this?

 

Go ahead.

 

Stormbrow - I'll admit, my post wasn't in the top ten politest posts, which I apologise for, but I was pretty hyperactive when I was writing it. >>

 

Commifists I have no idea what I was on. I forgot that commissars are S3.

 

As for the Sisters, I'm a Sisters player, and I know for a fact that the odd meltagun in an unusual place will screw over anyone. I don't let flamers do all the heavy lifting, you know.

 

The fact remains that, however fragile tyranids are with all the shiny GK crap out there, a monstrous creature will almost always eat a dreadnought in CC.

 

As far as 'crons go, what makes you think Tesla is the problem? Tesla's useless against AV12. Can't hurt them at all. Gauss on the other hand... 20 rapid-firing gauss flayers... THAT is something for a dreadnought to worry about, venerable or not. Not to mention scarabs, a wraith/spyder multi-charge, warscythes (S7, 2d6 armour penetration, can't be picked out in close combat with 2 attacks? Scared yet?), Scarabs don't care how many bases you instant death because of Spyder support, and will assault from way outside your flamer's range. Heavy Destroyers will punch through you without a second glance, DestriTeks are passably good... about the only thing you don't have to worry about is unsupported sword-and-board lychguard and Flayed Ones... and even tyranids aren't scared of Flayed Ones.

 

I've seen people take Plasma on Tac Marines. Admittedly, normally a plasma cannon combat squadded away from a flamer combat squad, but I've still seen it. I know people here don't think much of tac squads, but they have their uses. But then, this board is full of opinionated berks who refuse to see anything other than the internet way of doing things, so I'm not surprised you're snarking back rather than arguing seriously. But then, if you seriously want to play a Dreadnought army, you should be playing Blood Angels (see, I can snark without content too!)

[Corby]

What was this person fighting, Elysians with no air support or Sentinels?

:) Do you mind if I sig this?

 

Go ahead.

 

Stormbrow - I'll admit, my post wasn't in the top ten politest posts, which I apologise for, but I was pretty hyperactive when I was writing it. >>

 

Commifists I have no idea what I was on. I forgot that commissars are S3.

 

As for the Sisters, I'm a Sisters player, and I know for a fact that the odd meltagun in an unusual place will screw over anyone. I don't let flamers do all the heavy lifting, you know.

 

The fact remains that, however fragile tyranids are with all the shiny GK crap out there, a monstrous creature will almost always eat a dreadnought in CC.

 

As far as 'crons go, what makes you think Tesla is the problem? Tesla's useless against AV12. Can't hurt them at all. Gauss on the other hand... 20 rapid-firing gauss flayers... THAT is something for a dreadnought to worry about, venerable or not. Not to mention scarabs, a wraith/spyder multi-charge, warscythes (S7, 2d6 armour penetration, can't be picked out in close combat with 2 attacks? Scared yet?), Scarabs don't care how many bases you instant death because of Spyder support, and will assault from way outside your flamer's range. Heavy Destroyers will punch through you without a second glance, DestriTeks are passably good... about the only thing you don't have to worry about is unsupported sword-and-board lychguard and Flayed Ones... and even tyranids aren't scared of Flayed Ones.

 

I've seen people take Plasma on Tac Marines. Admittedly, normally a plasma cannon combat squadded away from a flamer combat squad, but I've still seen it. I know people here don't think much of tac squads, but they have their uses. But then, this board is full of opinionated berks who refuse to see anything other than the internet way of doing things, so I'm not surprised you're snarking back rather than arguing seriously. But then, if you seriously want to play a Dreadnought army, you should be playing Blood Angels (see, I can snark without content too!)

 

Oh where to begin ,

 

Tac Marines. Admittedly, normally a plasma cannon combat squadded away from a flamer combat squad, but I've still seen it. I know people here don't think much of tac squads, but they have their uses. But then, this board is full of opinionated berks who refuse to see anything other than the internet way of doing things,

 

Parts of the internet do advocate tactical marines , usually in the following set-up:

Sgt /w Combi-melta

Marine /w meltagun

Marine/w missile launcher or plasma cannon depending on rest of list.

7 Marines /w bolters

all in in rhino

 

Unit combat squads with melta-team going forward and missile/plasma team sitting back on/near an objective.

Tacticals have their places in certain styles of armies.

what makes you think Tesla is the problem? Tesla's useless against AV12. Can't hurt them at all. Gauss on the other hand... 20 rapid-firing gauss flayers

 

I see tesla as the problem. Gauss can at best glance and when shooting at a Gk dread you'll end up with a string of stunned and shaken results , all of which are ignored with a test in the following turn , With the venerable re-roll its unlikely you'll get a weapon destroyed result/immobilized result to stick on the dread . Tesla can Pen and is decent at stripping weapons , gauss can't. 20 rapid firing Gauss flayers comes out with 4 glances, unlikely you'll get anything but a stunned/shaken after the venerable re-roll. And this is to try and stop 1 dread , with two of his buddies present as well. I just don't see it being an effective way of stopping the dreads.

 

 

As for the Sisters, I'm a Sisters player, and I know for a fact that the odd meltagun in an unusual place will screw over anyone. I don't let flamers do all the heavy lifting, you know.

 

Stormbrow is also a sisters player and doesn't bring flamers in his lists.

 

. Not to mention scarabs, a wraith/spyder multi-charge, warscythes (S7, 2d6 armour penetration, can't be picked out in close combat with 2 attacks? Scared yet?),

What I got from that comment was that you were using your full army to crush 3 dreads. While ignoring the stomravens , razorbacks and other dreadnoughts.

And what long range shooting do you have? I can see the stormravens playing defensively and shooting away if you've got nothing outside of Gauss. Meaning you don't get to use any of the above.

 

But then, if you seriously want to play a Dreadnought army, you should be playing Blood Angel

 

Blood angels at best can put three dreads into an army and still maintain a strong list ( I've mentioned Ba dread lists in the Ba army list section in the past , and while there are lists with 4-6 dreads they're a lot weaker than other Ba list varients) . Grey knights can fit more and better dreads into their lists.

 

this board is full of opinionated berks who refuse to see anything other than the internet way of doing things, so I'm not surprised you're snarking back rather than arguing seriously

 

Some of the advice on the internet happens to match the advice formulated by people who regularly attend tournaments and build up their own ideas. I could argue your point the other way , saying that the people on these boards are full of opinionated berks who refuse to see that there are plenty of blogs/forums with good advice on list building/unit synergies written by players with large amounts of tournament experience.

 

Sorry if this seemed like a hostile comment or an attack on you. I didn't mean for it to. Just Several of the points you raised were incorrect and wrong in my opinion.

[Stormbrow II]

Stormbrow - I'll admit, my post wasn't in the top ten politest posts, which I apologise for, but I was pretty hyperactive when I was writing it. >>

It's cool. We all get wound up at times and I was too when I saw the post so felt I had to respond in kind, but I did back up my counter-argument with relatively detailed examples so it wasn't all empty snarking.

 

Back to your response.

 

Sisters Melta can do a number but they need to be close to do it with most of their units and they'll have to make their way across the board for 2 or 3 turns before they get to fire. The Doms and Exorcists are the exception as they have the speed (Scouting) or the range to drop AP1 shots at the enemy but its not too hard to cockblock Scouts with expendable Razors and hide/use cover to dick over the lolrandom Exorcist launcher. Then there's times you can use it against itself and risk it rolling a one or two for it's shots. Not the best course of action and it shows why the short-ranged Melta is more reliable but it suffers from (a) range issues and (:D Ravens ignoring the extra D6, so the unit firing will have to be in assault range, assuming there's no MultiMelta in there.

 

The fact remains that, however fragile tyranids are with all the shiny GK crap out there, a monstrous creature will almost always eat a dreadnought in CC.

Not quite. Not all of them have equal or higher I than the VDread and they run the risk of getting Force Weaponed or Daemonbaned. And that's just in combat. But their problem is getting there: a single Raven can bag a 6 wound MC in one round of shooting. Move 12", shoot the MM and Lascannon, and then all the Mindstrikes because they're defensive weapons. No rolls to wound and no cover saves for the latter and 2's to wound on the former. When you couple that with a Dread's Melta you can see how Nid MC's are giant dartboards for most GK armies including this kind of one.

 

As far as 'crons go, what makes you think Tesla is the problem? Tesla's useless against AV12

Even against AV12 Tesla can wreak havoc through the sheer number of hits it gets: when you've got 4 Night Scythes and 3 Annihilation Barges wailing on your vehicles it can get pretty annoying when they're being battered by 40+ hits per turn (assuming they all shoot one target) even with a -1 to damage rolls. But it's not primarily for the Dreads - it's to be used against the support units freeing up Lances, Scythes and other stuff to dedicate to the Dreads so there's nowhere for them to hide. Even so, in a pinch the Tesla can do it through the sheer number of hits they inflict which will eventually crack through the re-roll.

 

Scarabs? Wraiths? I'd rate the Scarabs as better in that regard but they won't go through it in one round, typically. Spiders? Not really, as they won't get the sheer number of hits to get round re-rolls.

Lords with Scythes in units? Ugh. If you don't wreck the Dread quickly you're in trouble as he'll buy time for someone else to arrive.

 

Funny thing - I saw a VDread with no CCW go toe-to-toe with Anrakyr yesterday simply because the re-rolls were keeping him going.

 

Yes Destroyers will blow one away with their Lascannons, as will a Triarch with its Heat Ray, but they're units that tend to lose out in favour of more resilient unit choices or those that do more damage like ABarges and Wraiths respectively. Desitreks? AP 2 Lances right? They're usually good but without AP1 modifiers they've their work cut out to single-shot a VDread.

 

I know people here don't think much of tac squads, but they have their uses.

Yup. Sitting at the back in a vehicle or acting as a Melta bunker in midfield supporting other stuff. The Marines are the let-down part of the Marine codex as they do so little compared to the other units in the army. So it'll likely be other units that'll be Dread-hunting.

 

BA Dread armies? They have to pay for EA while GKs get Fortitude for free and they also get dirt-cheap troops with good shooting to allow them to splash the points on their Dreads in the first place.

[lordmetroid]

"Up-close" Dreadnoughts can be good; an Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer combination can seriously wreck face against non-MEQ armies; I've taken out an entire Ork 'Ard Boyz mob in one turn with one. However, it isn't really the close combat that is doing the majority of the damage, it's the short range shooting weapons, followed up perhaps with an assault on the leftovers. Jeske is correct, though, in that you don't want to spend a whole ton of points trying to make that one model effective for you, and it really has to fit in well with what you've already got in your army list. By itself, 2 attacks is pretty weak-sauce, and a DreadKnight is what a DreadNought really ought to have been in close combat (in my opinion). Also, the fact that Grey Knights don't get Drop Pods makes it a little more difficult to position an "up-close" Dreadnought well, without spending a ton of points on a Stormraven.

 

Valerian

I use a Libriarian and Draigo so my option for getting the dreadnaught to a strategically favourable position are numerous. Either I could have it scout and/or summoned to a position where support is of need. I kind of feel bad for switching out the Callidus though. I like to keep my army very varied. Switching out a Callidus and something more for 230 points for two dreads seems like a step towards spam even though the dreads would be totally different from each other.

[*Furyou Miko]

Ah, I think I see our problem - when you say Tesla, you mean "Tesla Destructors". When I see Tesla, I assume you mean "Tesla weapons in general".

 

Tesla Carbines (which are what Necron players mean when they compare Tesla to Gauss) are the same strength as Gauss Blasters (5). I was talking about Immortals and Tomb Blades - IE, comparing Tesla to Gauss on units that can have either. Annihilation Barges are an entirely different kettle of fish - they're Heavy Support, for a start, and you can only take them as individual models.

 

Corby - I was listing units that can take on a dreadnought, not listing all the units I would charge into the combat at once!

 

As far as Storm Ravens go, the preferred Necron tactic to deal with them is to hit them with a Tremorstave and then let Writhing Worldscape do the rest.

[Toasterfree]

i think i am inclined to agree that the dread for GK are better suited for fire support, something that they lack in.

 

having tricks to move one around is awesome. moving a few in a SR works also. if you want a close range dread would def agree to a ven with a MM/HF. even though its more of a mid range unit, the MM will allow you to take out vehicles and if you didnt kill it with that then you can assault it. would allow you to get to the crunchy bits inside of a transport.

 

but a s8 dread firing 4 re-roll hits shots is going to do more damage to units than anything. worst thing against it is going to be AV 13+ which there really isnt much of outside of space marines and IG.

[Chengar Qordath]

Ah, I think I see our problem - when you say Tesla, you mean "Tesla Destructors". When I see Tesla, I assume you mean "Tesla weapons in general".

 

Tesla Carbines (which are what Necron players mean when they compare Tesla to Gauss) are the same strength as Gauss Blasters (5). I was talking about Immortals and Tomb Blades - IE, comparing Tesla to Gauss on units that can have either. Annihilation Barges are an entirely different kettle of fish - they're Heavy Support, for a start, and you can only take them as individual models.

Not to mention that even the Tesla Destructor is AP – which is a big problem for any anti-vehicle weapon. -1 on damage rolls hurts.

[Corby]

Ah, I think I see our problem - when you say Tesla, you mean "Tesla Destructors". When I see Tesla, I assume you mean "Tesla weapons in general".

 

Tesla Carbines (which are what Necron players mean when they compare Tesla to Gauss) are the same strength as Gauss Blasters (5). I was talking about Immortals and Tomb Blades - IE, comparing Tesla to Gauss on units that can have either. Annihilation Barges are an entirely different kettle of fish - they're Heavy Support, for a start, and you can only take them as individual models.

 

Corby - I was listing units that can take on a dreadnought, not listing all the units I would charge into the combat at once!

 

As far as Storm Ravens go, the preferred Necron tactic to deal with them is to hit them with a Tremorstave and then let Writhing Worldscape do the rest.

 

 

a wraith/spyder multi-charge

 

This bit gave me the impression , in my mind at least , that you were planning on charging multiple units into the dreads.

 

While writhing worldscape is something that can deal with Storm ravens , its overall a very gimmicky list in my opinion. I'd imagine barges are the best bet for dealing with storm ravens. They can fly by and ignore its cover save while getting 2D6 penetration.

[*Furyou Miko]

Surprisingly, no-one's thought of Sweeping storm ravens as far as I know.

 

Probably because we still have to roll to hit, and you're a skimmer moving fast.

 

As far as the multi-charge, yes, I suggested a "wraith/spiyder multi-charge" as a discrete identity (because the spyder won't strike first otherwise... although it can probably tank the hits with T6 and W3).

[Corby]

Surprisingly, no-one's thought of Sweeping storm ravens as far as I know.

 

Probably because we still have to roll to hit, and you're a skimmer moving fast.

 

As far as the multi-charge, yes, I suggested a "wraith/spiyder multi-charge" as a discrete identity (because the spyder won't strike first otherwise... although it can probably tank the hits with T6 and W3).

 

I was under the impression barges hit on a 4+ no matter how fast the target vehicle moved in the previous movement phase. Sweeping attacks are independent of the close combat rules if I remember correctly.

[dswanick]

Surprisingly, no-one's thought of Sweeping storm ravens as far as I know.

 

Probably because we still have to roll to hit, and you're a skimmer moving fast.

 

As far as the multi-charge, yes, I suggested a "wraith/spiyder multi-charge" as a discrete identity (because the spyder won't strike first otherwise... although it can probably tank the hits with T6 and W3).

 

I was under the impression barges hit on a 4+ no matter how fast the target vehicle moved in the previous movement phase. Sweeping attacks are independent of the close combat rules if I remember correctly.

"Roll To Hit and To Wound seperately for each Sweep Attack. If the Catacomb Command Barge moved at combat speed this turn, a Sweep Attack hits on a 3+, otherwise it hits on a 4+." - C:N, Pg.52