How do one use a Close Combat Dreadnaughts?

[Stormbrow II]

I'm pretty much agreeing with Corby on his points.

 

Ah, I think I see our problem - when you say Tesla, you mean "Tesla Destructors". When I see Tesla, I assume you mean "Tesla weapons in general".

Yes, I meant Tesla Destructors on flying AV13 ignore shaken on a 2+ and stunned on a 4+ space balls that have a 36" operative range. Oh, and on Night Scythes too.

 

The S7 makes a huge difference as it allows it to deal with up to AV12 when you pour enough firepower into it. 4 Twin-Linked shots with 2 extra hits on 6's is demented and helps to get around the AP - problem, as well as the Ven re-roll. Throw enough mud at a wall and some of it will stick. It'll become even better if the rumours about Hull Points in 6th ed in July are true.

 

but a s8 dread firing 4 re-roll hits shots is going to do more damage to units than anything. worst thing against it is going to be AV 13+ which there really isnt much of outside of space marines and IG.

At BS 4 I'd agree but taking a shooty Ven Dread is probably a waste of points by comparison because it gains less from re-rolls as it has a higher BS already and is much more expensive while doing a job that could be done by a regular Dread. At least with the VDread, while he doesn't kill as much as a DCA blob it is much more survivable and is a more suitable platform for non-twin linked anti-tank weapons (such as Meltas) that GK often need to supplement Psycannons.

 

As far as the multi-charge, yes, I suggested a "wraith/spiyder multi-charge" as a discrete identity (because the spyder won't strike first otherwise... although it can probably tank the hits with T6 and W3).

The Spyder probably won't as it's facing a Nemesis Force Weapon, so the Dread hits on 3's, wounds on 2's and then pops it. Unless the Gloom Prism protects from Force Weapons attacks?

 

I was under the impression barges hit on a 4+ no matter how fast the target vehicle moved in the previous movement phase. Sweeping attacks are independent of the close combat rules if I remember correctly.

This is the way we play it too. The BRB deals with vehicles moving Fast while the Codex states you only take account of the speed of the Barge so the Lord will hit it on a 4+ at worst (as Codex > BRB). It's why the Raven will try to boost to within half-Melta range of the Barge to wreck it so he can't sweep it in the following turn and buy it more time i.e. force Crons to Tesla it to death and allow the Dread inside survive to get closer.

[*Furyou Miko]

Gloom Prism should work against a Force Weapon, since it targets the Spyder. I'll admit I had forgotten that your dreadnoughts had force weapons though.

 

Why does the Nemesis Doomfist wound on 2+? I thought it was S6. That's wounding on 4+.

 

You can't really compare Tesla Destructors to Gauss directly, since there is no equivalent Gauss weapon. >>

 

About sixty percent of all Bargelords will be Anrakyr, though, so we may well let the 'raven live to help us kill the dreadnoughts. Then there's his Tachyon Arrow to consider, although no-one really takes Tachyon Arrows seriously.

[dswanick]

About sixty percent of all Bargelords will be Anrakyr, though, so we may well let the 'raven live to help us kill the dreadnoughts. Then there's his Tachyon Arrow to consider, although no-one really takes Tachyon Arrows seriously.

Funny you should say that, as one Necron player participating in my next Apocalypse game just submitted his army list - including Anrakyr and his Tachyon Arrow.

[shortysl]

Why does the Nemesis Doomfist wound on 2+? I thought it was S6. That's wounding on 4+.

 

Because Nemesis Doomfists on a Dreadnought are Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, thus increasing the Dreadnought's strength to 10.

[*Furyou Miko]

Explicitly, or are you just assuming that because they're CCWs on a Dreadnought?

 

dsanwick - people take Anrakyr because he's only a tiny bit dearer than a standard Phaeron and his special rules are very, very nice (Trust me when I say that Immortals need all the CC help they can get). He's also pretty much the only lord you'll ever see with an Arrow, because his is effectively free.

 

It's a one-shot railgun, so it suffers from the usual Hunter-Killer issues, which is why no-one takes it seriously... but with Anrakyr, it's a one-shot railgun on a guy who can also steal an enemy gun, make sweep attacks, make your immortals Furious Charge and Counter-Attack, and do everything a standard Overlord can do.

 

Especially watch out for the Anrakyr/Zahndrek combo, where he can easily end up with Tank Hunters and a friend (Obyron also Sweeps when you put him in the barge, and is our best CC character.)

[Chengar Qordath]

Explicitly, or are you just assuming that because they're CCWs on a Dreadnought?

The GK 'dex is very clear that the Doomfist is a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon.

[shortysl]

Explicitly, or are you just assuming that because they're CCWs on a Dreadnought?

 

No I'm not assuming, I know it as a fact. Though the Nemesis Doomfist does not provide a strength bonus to Nemesis Dreadknights (as they're not Walkers), the codex states that on a Dreadnought, Nemesis Doomfists are Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons.

[nurglez]

yup, GK dread's with doomfist's have str 10 force weapons :)

 

I'll go ahead and say that the best close combat dread's have multiple close combat weapons, such as chaos (though not great, cheap and cheerful), blood angels (tricked out lightning claws ftw!) and ork's.

 

MEQ dread's with a single dccw are best used for short range fire and tarpitting, 2-3 attacks at ws4 really isn't that great, even the dreadknight isn't amazing unless you give him a greatsword, and then you can still only kill 4 max on the charge, or 3 without (dual fists will up that, but with no rerolls).

[Lord Ragnarok]

What about co-assaulting with a group of palladins/termies in a strom raven? Wouldn't the measly attacks amount for more in conjunction with the terminators?

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah, but then the TermiPals are just carrying the day on their own and you'll tend to find that the Dread doesn't get to do much.

[Corby]

Funny you should say that, as one Necron player participating in my next Apocalypse game just submitted his army list - including Anrakyr and his Tachyon Arrow.

 

Tachyon arrow's are nice , but I wouldn't use them as your primary anti-tank. The barge's sweeping attacks are better in that regard. Though I've seen a necron player in a tournament before who , when facing a list with enough melta to make Anrakyr's life difficult , deployed him with a crypteksquad with a chrometron to make use of the re-roll when firing the arrow and then jump into his barge later on.

 

About sixty percent of all Bargelords will be Anrakyr, though, so we may well let the 'raven live to help us kill the dreadnoughts. Then there's his Tachyon Arrow to consider, although no-one really takes Tachyon Arrows seriously.

 

I think it would be safer to use Anrakyr to Side swipe the raven first , so it wouldn't be shooting for another turn and the use Anni barges/Another Command barge lord to shut down the dread that gets out.But a Multi-melta up a dreadnought's ass is too hilarious to pass up. I once saw a necron play use Anrakyr's power to take control of a Gk stormraven and unload it into a unit of terminators , mindstrikes and all. The terminators pretty much evaporated.

[*Furyou Miko]

Eh? Anrakyr only lets you remote control a single weapon on the chosen vehicle.

 

Doesn't make it less funny when he fires a hunter killer missile at a land raider, but he couldn't then use the storm bolter too.

[Corby]

Eh? Anrakyr only lets you remote control a single weapon on the chosen vehicle.

 

Doesn't make it less funny when he fires a hunter killer missile at a land raider, but he couldn't then use the storm bolter too.

 

I don't seem to remember seeing that in the necron codex , I was always under the impression you could fire multiple weapons , as the ruling reads as "once these shooting attacks are resolved , the vehicle returns to your opponents control".

Attacks being plural to me at least , implies you can shoot multiple weapons , Anrakyr is also able to use the potms special rule on tanks like landraiders. However I don't own a copy of it and haven't looked at it in a while so I could be wrong.

[dswanick]

Eh? Anrakyr only lets you remote control a single weapon on the chosen vehicle.

 

Doesn't make it less funny when he fires a hunter killer missile at a land raider, but he couldn't then use the storm bolter too.

Negative. Anrakyr can fire the vehicle's weapons as if it were his vehicle and as if the vehicle had not moved. The only limits are it may not change facing nor may it fire Destroyed weapons.

[*Furyou Miko]

.. I've been gimping myself. Where in the warp did I get that idea from?

[Gentlemanloser]

As Nurglez and others have said.

 

GK don't have CC Dreads.

 

No AV13, No dual CCW options.

 

You *can* use a DCCW in CC, but why? Again, as others have said, the NDK is far better suited to that role than any of the GK Dreads.

 

Sure, utilise a medium Range Dread for Reinforced Aegis. AC+Psybolts/MM and keep the DCCW to discourage tarpitting it in assault for the whole game. But that *in no way* makes it a CC option.

 

GK have *no* CC Dreads.

 

A massive oversight, given out access to StormRavens...

[Stormshadow]

A massive oversight, given out access to StormRavens...

 

I don’t rely think so… we don’t need a GK version of the BA CC Dread because we have the Dread Knight. And still GK dreads is the bane of any MC with I3 (I4 as well but then both will probably die). BA use there ravens to propel there dreads into CC. GK use there Ravens to rapidly redeploy fire platforms. A raven that moves 24” to get a side shot at a vehicle with its TLLC can also deploy a Dread to get more shots on the target or shoot at multiple targets.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'd agree.

 

If the NDK could ride in the SR Dread Grapple.

 

Until then, not giving us a dedicated CC Dread to fit in our SR is a massive oversight.

[Stormshadow]

What do you mean by oversight?

[dswanick]

What do you mean by oversight?

He means "oversight" because Mat Ward doesn't have the reputation of gimping a Codex he's writting in order to balance it against the other offerings in the present edition.

I'm just surprised that he didn't have some scrap of text buried somewhere in the book detailing how the Grey Knights are actually all clones of R.G., secretly wish that they were a recongnized U.M successor chapter, and how they all hope that someday they'll be allowed to re-paint their armor blue.

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL!

 

:P

 

Oversight, as in by design it's bad to give a chapter access to a vehicle designed to deliver Dreadnoughts (and specifically Dreads, with the grapple that only holds them...) into Assault.

 

And then fail to give the army a signle Assault Dread.

 

It could be by design, in which case it's poor design. But I'd rather limit my ragging on Ward somewhat, and assume it was mearly an oversight, that none of the playtesters/editors caught.

 

Much like Digital Weapons on Brotherhood Champions (the ultimate expression of GW fail right there. I hope Ward/The Playtesters/Editors and GW as a whole self facepalm every time they read that entry. Then fire someone for not releasing an errata to fix it!).

[Stormshadow]

Well, I do not consider the raven as an assault vehicle, more of a clown car ;). So I do not think of it as an oversight in the same way as the Digital weapons. I think they knew what they were doing when they didn’t let the DK model compete with the Dreads in terms of CC, they want to sell both models after all :P.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

>close combat Dreads

 

Wrong forum guys, you want Blood Angels and their insane Dreadnought variants. And their worthwhile Stormchickens for delivery. And drop pods...yeah.

 

......(two pages of meta-countering eachother later)

 

Ok fine. If you really really really want to do it, take a Venerable. His WS5 means you might actually hit with more than one attack, and his BS5 means you can get excellent mileage out of plasma cannons or multi-meltas with him. I'm not saying it's the best idea in the world, but hey, you might meet an enemy army that didn't bring AV12 counters and roflstomp through their lines. Pricey though, and our Elites slot is pretty crowded by 'amazing' as opposed to the 'decent' choice a Venerable is.

 

If you want a close-combat loner, Dreadknight is better anyway. He's scientifically better against everything except plasma guns and S6 power weapons (of which there are few in the game), he's insanely fast (Blood Angels COMPLAIN about the teleport backpack), and he hits really hard (re-rolls to everything is hilarious, the balancing factor being unlike a Dread technically lasguns can break his save and kill him).