nighthaunter666 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Vindicare gets hit by a Krak missile. Vindicare rolls a 1 to save. *poof* :) But here's the thing: Every unit can be killed so that's not really sound reasoning as to why not to use a Vindicare. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 bad example. cause for that matter you wouldnt fire a 135 dread at them either. I don't get it? :) maybe i misunderstood your post. idk im running on 3 hours of sleep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Same! Our baby boy was born last monday, and he's not settling at night yet. :P But here's the thing: Every unit can be killed so that's not really sound reasoning as to why not to use a Vindicare. Never said it was... I just don't feel the Vindicare is a target soaker for the rest of your army, when a single Krak Missile can ID him 1 out of 6 times. He's really not that hard to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 in all truth none of the assassins are that hard to kill Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Same! Our baby boy was born last monday, and he's not settling at night yet. :) But here's the thing: Every unit can be killed so that's not really sound reasoning as to why not to use a Vindicare. Never said it was... I just don't feel the Vindicare is a target soaker for the rest of your army, when a single Krak Missile can ID him 1 out of 6 times. He's really not that hard to kill. Well, since the Krak needs to hit and wound first, the odds are a bit worse than 1 out of 6. It actually works out to about 1 Krak out of 11 once you account for those two factors. As with anything related to dice though, statistical averages don't always work out within the context of a single game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well, since the Krak needs to hit and wound first, the odds are a bit worse than 1 out of 6. It actually works out to about 1 Krak out of 11 once you account for those two factors. As with anything related to dice though, statistical averages don't always work out within the context of a single game. So true! A friend who plays GK once spent the entire game with his Vindicare being peppered with shots that were powerful enough to cause ID. Every turn he would debate whether to go to ground for the extra save and decided that he would, rolled the save and always got 3 or more. Final turn he decided to risk it, rolled a 2 and promptly turned into vapour, having done nothing all game. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well, since the Krak needs to hit and wound first, the odds are a bit worse than 1 out of 6. Pfft. 1 out of 6 wounding hitting Kraks. :lol: Still the Vindicare is a bad unit to be a target soaker! B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3066792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthaunter666 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well, since the Krak needs to hit and wound first, the odds are a bit worse than 1 out of 6. Pfft. 1 out of 6 wounding hitting Kraks. ;) Still the Vindicare is a bad unit to be a target soaker! :cuss Well I guess he is more of a scalpel than a bludgeon. He's not bad in close combat either. Of course it all depends on your 'luck' with dice rolls, same as any other unit. Haha, my Vindicare once shrugged off 5 turns of melta, plasma and las fire only to be killed in turn 6 by lowly bolt pistols! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I've lost Terminaotrs and NDKs more to Bolt Pistols than anything else in the game! :cuss Damn those Bolt Pistols! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I've lost Terminaotrs and NDKs more to Bolt Pistols than anything else in the game! :cuss Damn those Bolt Pistols! i have once killed a demon prince with a bolt pistol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I once wiped out a full squad of deathwing terminators with grot blastas. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, since the Krak needs to hit and wound first, the odds are a bit worse than 1 out of 6. It actually works out to about 1 Krak out of 11 once you account for those two factors. As with anything related to dice though, statistical averages don't always work out within the context of a single game. So true! A friend who plays GK once spent the entire game with his Vindicare being peppered with shots that were powerful enough to cause ID. Every turn he would debate whether to go to ground for the extra save and decided that he would, rolled the save and always got 3 or more. Final turn he decided to risk it, rolled a 2 and promptly turned into vapour, having done nothing all game. :unsure: Well, IMO, that vindicare impactedthe game a while lot, since hé took away all that fire from the rest of the army :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, IMO, that vindicare impactedthe game a while lot, since hé took away all that fire from the rest of the army And that for me in the other fascinating tactic about the Vindicare. I have watched opponents ignore my terminators trudging up the battlefield, in preference for killing poor 'ickle Vindi. If on your first roll you do something significant with a vindicare, you can guarantee he will get a bucketful of attention for the rest of the game (while he is alive that is :lol: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatGrinder Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I've lost Terminaotrs and NDKs more to Bolt Pistols than anything else in the game! :( Damn those Bolt Pistols! i have once killed a demon prince with a bolt pistol. Once killed a bloodthirster in combat with fire warriors. Beat that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A couple of Eldar pathfinders gun butted an old GKGM of mine to death. Charged into cover, no 'nades, couple of 1's. /sob Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Alright, back to assassins people... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3067924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssel Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 bad example. cause for that matter you wouldnt fire a 135 dread at them either. I don't get it? :P What he's saying is that the dreadnought is meant to kill transports but why would you waste a 135p models shooting on a 35p rhino. Fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter how many points something is, it still gives your opponent a tactical advantage. If I had the choice to shoot a pathfinder squad or a Hammerhead, I'd be shooting the pathfinder squad. Why? Sure they're less points, and they don't do too much, BUT, what they give your opponent is the option to markerlight crap and make his units better. Thus I will be lighting that squad up to cripple his army a little bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3068037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Have to agree there with Abyssel; there's a lot more to which units are priority targets than their point value. Also, when it comes to transports, you're not only killing a 35-point model, you're also taking away the protection and mobility of the unit inside the transport. That kind of thing is hard to put a point value on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3068065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What he's saying is that the dreadnought is meant to kill transports but why would you waste a 135p models shooting on a 35p rhino. You don't 'focus fire' a 35 point rhino. You blow them up just by glancing at them sideways. Especially with Psyflemen. You could blow up a Vindicare with a Psyfleman as well. Without needing to focus fire on the Assassin at all. Target priorities can vary immensly, from lists, scenario and tactics. None of that changes the fact that a Vindicare (or a Rhino) isn't a useful option to suck up masses of fire from your opponent with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3068113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Anything that throws a wrench in the game plan of your opponent is good, and for several reasons. First, it forces your opponent to quit playing "his game." If he has a plan, and you begin to selectively remove units from his plan, not only does he not get what he wants, now he has a forced decision. To continue on his original, now gimped, game plan, or to adjust his plan to something sub-optimal that he may not even be equipped to do. Second, it's psychological warfare. What and where will the assassins strike? What will they remove or mess up? Yes they may be good for only one or two strikes a game, but if you get to pick when and where that happens... well... it's simply a mark in your favor. You have planned your game and your army around the fact that an assassin will show up, mess up some stuff, then get wacked. If you lose the assassin your army isn't hosed. If your assassin takes out a few select characters or units though, your opponent's army may become hosed. They're a surgical tool... it's up to you to be the surgeon and determine when and how best to use them to inflict the maximum damage, be it points of units, select keystones of their army, or your opponents head. This. Inquisitor NicholePyykkonen does it again. For me, he is a long ranged threat and monkey wrench into the opponents army. I once had an opponent (playing GK himself versus my INQ) give up half the board and any chance for a win first turn because of where i infiltrated my Vindi. Spearhead/capture and control, and he spends his first turn moving backwards to get out of the vindicare's range. Of course, I also run an eversor, so I'm likely to get insulted for not knowing what I'm talking about Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3068600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Eh, Vindicare is always variable with his damage soaking. Sometimes, you roll like a god for 3+ cover and laugh off lascannons. Other days, you get shot by an autocannon and turn to mush. Stick him in a sniping position, expect to get two-three shots off in a typical game. He also dies really easily in close-combat, two wounds doesn't last long and he just slaps S4 into people. He's still the only worthwhile assassin. They kinda nerfed the others too hard, Callidus should've kept her 'no saves ever' blade, Eversor needs Outflank to work (and its not worth bringing a GM just for that), Culexus just can't catch a break etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3070761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 the cally isnt useless. back field disruption is what she is all about. those pesky heavy weapon units, or those pesky front line units she comes in and hits them with a no cover save template. and if they are 1 wound, they die. and if you drop her in the back field, then to get rid of her, they have to fire into a 2+ cover save...YES PLEASE. the vindie, eh. 3-4 units per game yes. if you take out tanks with it, he can earn his points back. he sorta earns his points back with his disruption. but i think the cally has better multi use Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3071000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 The Callies Template is usually 4+ to wound, potentially 5+ (with a rare case of 6+). It's not that great. It also can no longer hurt vehicles at all. She can't assault from her DS, so she templates a single unit, if they're no embarked, and then proptly dies the next turn. and if you drop her in the back field, then to get rid of her, they have to fire into a 2+ cover save... How? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3071011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The odds of rolling a 1 are slim, but here is the thing. At BS8, he kinda re-rolls 1s :P Krak missile at a 40 point Rhino, or 145 point Assassin? ;) 40 pts Rhino... ...full of Purifiers with 7 halberds and hammer... ...just one turn away from your home objective... Be my guest and shoot Vindi then B) I just don't feel the Vindicare is a target soaker for the rest of your army, when a single Krak Missile can ID him 1 out of 6 times. He's really not that hard to kill. Actually, at BS3 - 1/2 x 1/6 x 5/6 = 7% chance of ID. At BS4 - 9% chance of ID. Not hard? B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3072164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Land Raider full of *something* scoring, holding the only objective that could possibly be contested, and next turn the enemy is set up to pop it with a Vindicare and charge whatever's inside with 12 DCA. Dare *not* to shoot him now? We can play this game all night, and frankly I'm bored of it already. :D Not hard? Not as hard a a NDK or Ven Dread to kill. Especially if you're facing Bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252528-how-worthwhile-are-assassins/page/2/#findComment-3072227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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