Primarch Mortality

[Son of Rawl]

Finished listening to Butchers Nails and one part has me alittle curious about the fates of the forgotten primarchs.

 

Lorgar - "If it is possible for us to die, you will do so with those wretched things still inside your skull"

 

Angron - "You know we can die, Ferrus, is dead" Lorgar looked away, as if staring through the metal chamber wall.

 

Lorgar - "I keep forgetting that, events, are proceeding so very quickly, are they not?"

 

If Lorgar and Angron are surprised that they (Primarchs) can die, what does that mean of the forgotten primarchs, or were they not privy to their fates.

 

Great story ADB, much man love to you

[Trevak Dal]

In First Heretic, the Emperor makes Lorgar, and the rest of his legion kneel with a psychic command. Brings a whole new meaning to "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out."

 

Also, Horus is dead, as is Sanguiniess(sp).

 

Relating to that question, we'll probably never find out, but I'd say they're pretty dead. I can just imagine the Emperor coming across one primarch who was just a screw up or something. A little blond haired guy prone to wearing a trenchcoat and shouting about "Flawed, recessive genes!" and another guy who just wasn't going to accept the Emperor's rule no matter what, because he saw himself as superior...and got put down.

 

My thoughts are that had the Emperor not been...incapacitated after his fight with Horus, the traitors would have gotten the same treatment as "the other two", in that their statues would have been removed, and they would have been erased from history (as they were killed and their legions destroyed).

 

In the 41st millinium the primarchs just don't really matter anymore, I mean they are individually important figures in the Imperium's history, and certainly to the chapters that have certain primarch's geneseed. But in the longrun, they aren't any more relevant to 'modern Imperial times' than Julius Caesar is to Rome in modern times. They're statues and stories.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Also in First Heretic Magnus and Lorgar briefly allude the the forgotten two, they've sworn not to speak about what happened, they talk in such a way as to suggest they definitely know what happened, however, it seems to me that it was a traumatic enough event that the primarchs seem willing to try and forget about them, which I think is the real truth behind Lorgar continually "forgetting" about Manus' death. Esp for Lorgar, seeing as he is at least indirectly responsible for Manus' death, and Lorgar's own predilection for sentimentality, guilt, and moral confusion. On the other hand it could imply that the forgotten two weren't killed.

 

However the point is moot, we'll never know, we're not meant to know, the two lost primarchs are the way they are so that we can make not just our own warbands/chapters and heroes, but potentially our own loyalist or traitor legion and Primarch, GW will always leave those two slots open so we can use that option, even if I miagine few people do w/ the already massive amount of room for DIY fluff for warbands and chapters

[Greyall]

Humans in younger ages have trouble conceiving their own death, hence why they tend to be more reckless.

 

I know this is debatable seeing as there are centuries-old "humans" who have endured a lifetime of war and horror but, to me, Primarchs exhibit a lot of childish traits.

 

The conversation between Lorgar and Angron is, I think, a perfect example of my first sentence. Lorgar's confusion isn't borne from any inability to accept that a Primarch's heart can stop, but that his existence may cease (also, all the trips through the Warp seem to have affected his sense of time).

 

In theory, every Primarch's upbringing should've prepared them for the possibility of death. They've seen it happen a million times. Yet rarely to them. Only a few Primarchs have been in real danger (Angron and Mortarion, that I can think of). More often than not, they've all held dominant positions throughout their youth - either on the battlefield or by ruling whole planets. Power does awful things to a person's sense of self and reality. But when your power is real, that illusory effect is taken to a whole new level.

[Zeratil]

My interpretation has always been that the two lost primarchs were imprisoned somewhere - The Emperor can't bring himself to kill Horus until the very last moment when Horus kills Ollanius Pius. I don't think he would have killed the lost primarchs, merely ensured they could never again be unleashed upon the galaxy. For a primarch to be locked away from his legion and his calling would be a terrible thing, and one their brothers might well be hesitant to speak about.

[The emperors chosen]

Remember though, Horus was the Big E's favorite son, and he couldn't kill Horus because he couldn't accept how corrupt he had become. This could mean that the something else happened to the lost 2 that caused them to be killed.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

My interpretation has always been that the two lost primarchs were imprisoned somewhere - The Emperor can't bring himself to kill Horus until the very last moment when Horus kills Ollanius Pius. I don't think he would have killed the lost primarchs, merely ensured they could never again be unleashed upon the galaxy. For a primarch to be locked away from his legion and his calling would be a terrible thing, and one their brothers might well be hesitant to speak about.

Remember though, Horus was the Big E's favorite son, and he couldn't kill Horus because he couldn't accept how corrupt he had become. This could mean that the something else happened to the lost 2 that caused them to be killed.

Also remember that this isn't necessarily how it went down. Some people, such as myself, believe that Horus was abandoned by the Dark Gods at the last second so that they could have the kicks and giggles of betraying him. Pretty much everything that happened during the final battle is theory... So you might be right :) However, I don't think that is the case. That's even worse than the Grey Knights' fluff IMHO, the whole 'I can sacrifice everything (including myself) to build the Imperium up and protect it BUT Horus, who is clearly tainted by the Chaos Gods except I don't want to admit it, despite the fact that I forced trillions of other souls to accept my truth or die... Which is funny, because I was lieing all along and I know the true threat that Horus poses better than anyone except the Chaos Gods themselves...

 

That's totally plausible... :)

 

 

AHEM in summary you can't use the final battle with the Emperor and Horus as proof that the missing Legions weren't killed off.

 

 

What I find truly interesting is that Erebus, Abbaddon, Ahriman and the like should all know what happened to the Lost Legions, but they don't talk about them even after the Heresy and the Scouring. I've always wondered why.

[Trevak Dal]

What I find truly interesting is that Erebus, Abbaddon, Ahriman and the like should all know what happened to the Lost Legions, but they don't talk about them even after the Heresy and the Scouring. I've always wondered why.

 

Because it doesn't really matter to their current plans. I don't see them reminiscing about the "good old days" when Bob and Mike led their Legions and Bob and Mike got Dead-ed for whatever reason, because it was 10,000 years ago and they have bigger problems TODAY like, where are we going to get more ammo for the next raid and such.