New Unit Concepts

[Akatriel]

Hello all.

 

Seeing as the debate over the topic on an hypothetical new codex is deriving to the "fluffiness" and, indeed, the need of new units for the Dark Angels, I´ve decided to open this new thread for discussing the matter with some depth. I hope it doesn´t step on the toes of the codex project up there; if it does, please let me know.

 

First of all, I think that the Dark Angels don´t need new units... but they should get them. Let me explain: Blood Angels and Space Wolves, for example, didn´t need them either, but seeing that the new tendency is to give them to everyone, I feel that it would be "unfair" to don´t give them to the Fist Legion. Besides, apparently that´s the best way to keep armies distinct and separate.

 

So, what kinds of units should we get? Sadly, we probably WILL get some over-the-top sillyness, but I´d love to see some units that are both coherent with our background, and not stupid. Here are some ideas:

• Special Weapons Squads: The Dark Angels are, supposedly, one of the more tactically flexible chapters, and I find that this could be a valuable addition, capable of being tailored to suit individual threats, and much more mobile than Devastador squads. It would be similar to Devastators, a five-to-ten man squad with four special weapons: plasma rifles (are we not, for some reason, the "Plasma chapter"?), meltaguns, or flamethrowers. Maybe also heavy flamethrowers, since they are assault weapons. I think that Sisters of Battle get some similar with the Dominion Squads, altough don´t know details.
   
  Ravenwing Scouts: The ravenwing is much more than a glorified eight company. They are expert riders, but also scouts and infiltrators; after all, it´s them who must draw out the Fallen for the Deathwing to pick. This would be a hand-picked team of elite marines from the Second Company, clad in Scout Armor and riding a Land Speeder Storm. Maybe they could get some special choices in weapons and wargear to make them stand out.
   
  Legion-wide Squad: With the theme of the Secret Legion going on, I could see an elite kill-team of veterans from several succesors, Deathwatch style. Maybe a sort of honour guard of the Supreme Grand Master, or a special task force sent to take the most dangerous of the Fallen. They could wear either TDA or Artificer Armour, with the colours of the old legion and the icon of their chapter of origin in the right shoulder.
   
  Inner Circle Observer: An addition to the Command Squad, maybe. Fluff-wise, he would be and adivisor and political officer, making sure that the ends of the Inner Circle are met and collaborating with the Master in charge. Rules-wise I don´t know, my knowing of the rules is sketchy at best, someone has any suggestions?
  

 

Of course, we should get the Mortis Dreadnought. I doubt the Chaplain squad that is rumored, mainly because it´s too similar to the Sanguinary Priests, but, how do you people view the concept and its possibilities? Finally, I wouln´d mind a nice three-strong squadron of jetbikes...

[EPK]

are we not, for some reason, the "Plasma chapter"?

 

Oh no you didn't! Can of worms open, lets just see if any birds come to eat.

 

 

Ravenwing Scouts: The ravenwing is much more than a glorified eight company. They are expert riders, but also scouts and infiltrators; after all, it´s them who must draw out the Fallen for the Deathwing to pick. This would be a hand-picked team of elite marines from the Second Company, clad in Scout Armor and riding a Land Speeder Storm. Maybe they could get some special choices in weapons and wargear to make them stand out.

 

I'd prefer RW scouts to be on scout bikes to keep with the whole always mounted thing. Is there times when the RW have to dismount to continue the hunt, sure, but I feel that using them in that manner would be separate from the narrative of an actual larger 40K battle (In other words, they would be used in such rare situations that they do not even need to be represented in a 40K battle). And the other reason why not is simply because of Wolf Scouts. Keeping them on bikes, makes them similar yet different.

[The DIA!]

I like the idea of the Deathwatch style squad consisting of members of different unforgiven chapters. Could have a lot of room for options in that. I would like to see more on the Watchers as well. Something that would be cool (maybe too much though?) is, i remember a while ago on this forum some had the idea of net guns on DW used for capture rather than kill, i would love to see something similiar in the new dex, maybe go as far to make it similiar to lash of submission. the DW launch the net and pull a model(or squad?) around?

[Brother Immolator]

are we not, for some reason, the "Plasma chapter"?

 

Oh no you didn't! Can of worms open, lets just see if any birds come to eat.

 

 

Chirp,chirp,chirp.Polly wanna cra...ehm worm? :D

 

How would a 5 man squad full of heavy weaps with suspensors(thats the name?)that allows them to move and fire?A la deathwatch.

Broken?

 

EDIT: And those two: http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/086...all-d4u52gl.jpg

 

http://www.deviantart.com/download/1610926...sticChicken.jpg

[JeffJedi]

Deathwing Termistators - Terminator Devastator Squad. Sergeant and 4 heavy weapons. Maybe some new heavy weapon options.

[shabbadoo]

I can see it now...

 

HQ

 

Belial- TH&SS

 

TROOPS

 

DW Squad: 4 x TH&SS, CML

DW Squad: 4 x TH&SS, CML

 

FAST ATTACK

 

Ravening Land Speeder Typhoon w/MM

Ravening Land Speeder Typhoon w/MM

Ravening Land Speeder Typhoon w/MM

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

DW Squad: Sgt. w/TH&SS, 4 X CML

DW Squad: Sgt. w/TH&SS, 4 X CML

DW Squad: Sgt. w/TH&SS, 4 X CML

 

24 models, 20 heavy weapons. Let the DA hate flow... :)

[Onisuzume]

I'd have to chirp in, that Dominion Squad idea isn't a half bad, if only a blatant rip-off of the Adepta Sororitas.

Although personally, I'd like to see the following weapon options for it:

Storm Bolter, Combi-Bolter, Flamer, Meltagun, Plasmagun.

Maybe a Grenade Launcher for the fun of it.

Something along the lines of this.

 

Dunno what the new SoB army list says, but I think that the old one required them to have a transport as well, so slightly less cheese due to forced points sink.

 

The heavies-with-suspensors is probably a very bad idea.

[Akatriel]

Something that would be cool (maybe too much though?) is, i remember a while ago on this forum some had the idea of net guns on DW used for capture rather than kill

 

What about some kind of stunner or neuro-whatever, rather than nets? Maybe is too Dark Eldar-y, but for some reason I can´t see a net gun without thinking of 80´s cartoons.

 

I´ve seen the Terminator/Devastator Squad tossed around frequently. It certainly would add some mobile firepower to the Chapter (Terminators can still move and fire heavy weapons, right?), maybe better than a relentless Devastator squad, that would create some complications ("Why do they have that technology? Why nobody else has it?" "Lost STC!!" "Ok, Ward, get out of the meeting NOW").

 

I agree with the weapons options, Onisuzume. The ones I included where just at the top of my mind, and the idea is to give the squad flexibility, so it´s perfect. Also, I had forgotten that the new Codex has Auxiliary Grenade Launchers! Maybe the standard for the 4 marines who can take special weapons should be storm bolter or bolter + grenade launcher, and then they get options to subtitute them for plasma, melta, etc. Is it broken? (as I´ve said, I´m more of a fluff type, I´ve very little idea of the rules)

 

Brother Immolator, would you care to elaborate on the images? I get that there are a Terminator Chaplain and some kind of veteran? Who´s the author of the Chaplain, by the way? It´s amazing.

 

EDIT: The ravenwing scouts on bikes isn´t a bad idea at all, either. As you say, I would help to differentiate it from the Wolf Scouts. But I want a Storm! ;)

[pueriexdeus]

If I could take one new Unit option. It would be Devastators with Suspensors...

[Brother Immolator]

Brother Immolator, would you care to elaborate on the images? I get that there are a Terminator Chaplain and some kind of veteran? Who´s the author of the Chaplain, by the way? It´s amazing.

 

More or less the first one reminds of the honor guard accompanying Boreas on his return to the rock in angels of darkness.An honor guard unit using ceramonial/relic? two handed swords.There has been a unit proposed by Maddoc here: Redemptors unit

 

I feel tha artwork is fitting and i would certainly want to see that modelwise.

 

As for the chaplain he is just too awesomesauce not to have a model like that.

 

I dont know who drew them i found them on the internets.

 

I'd have to chirp in, that Dominion Squad idea isn't a half bad, if only a blatant rip-off of the Adepta Sororitas.

 

Are we talking about the devs?I had no idea that dominions were capable of fire on the move.

I actually ripped off the old deathwatch rules that used suspensors to make heavy bolters assault instead of heavy, but for all heavy weapons.

[Aegnor]

I think this has been mentioned before, but I would like a unique Predator option, maybe one that gave it the equivalent of Power of the Machine Spirit, so they'd be more flexible, but not duplicate the Baal.

[Alys Dwr]

Brother Immolator, would you care to elaborate on the images? I get that there are a Terminator Chaplain and some kind of veteran? Who´s the author of the Chaplain, by the way? It´s amazing.

 

I believe that epic Chaplain (along with many other stunning images) can be found here, on the B&C and drawn by member Greyall :P

 

Al

[The DIA!]

Maybe a grappling hook that can choose a model in a unit and can pull it out of said unit?

[Brother Immolator]

Maybe a grappling hook that can choose a model in a unit and can pull it out of said unit?

 

You are messing too much with pirate blood angels dreadnaughts brother!

[pueriexdeus]

Brother Immolator, would you care to elaborate on the images? I get that there are a Terminator Chaplain and some kind of veteran? Who´s the author of the Chaplain, by the way? It´s amazing.

 

More or less the first one reminds of the honor guard accompanying Boreas on his return to the rock in angels of darkness.An honor guard unit using ceramonial/relic? two handed swords.There has been a unit proposed by Maddoc here: Redemptors unit

 

I feel tha artwork is fitting and i would certainly want to see that modelwise.

 

As for the chaplain he is just too awesomesauce not to have a model like that.

 

I dont know who drew them i found them on the internets.

 

I'd have to chirp in, that Dominion Squad idea isn't a half bad, if only a blatant rip-off of the Adepta Sororitas.

 

Are we talking about the devs?I had no idea that dominions were capable of fire on the move.

I actually ripped off the old deathwatch rules that used suspensors to make heavy bolters assault instead of heavy, but for all heavy weapons.

Its actually not a rip-off of anything. In 2ED Suspensors were available to HW's for a price. Now if I can only find the reference.

[Isiah]

Inner Circle Observer: An addition to the Command Squad, maybe. Fluff-wise, he would be and adivisor and political officer, making sure that the ends of the Inner Circle are met and collaborating with the Master in charge. Rules-wise I don´t know, my knowing of the rules is sketchy at best, someone has any suggestions?

 

 

I'm up for anything that enhances and deepens the 'circles within circles' of the DA. This sounds too much like a DA 'Commissar' type figure though, but I'm liking the general direction. Maybe he's a seconded Master, Librarian or Chaplain that works as an upgrade character to a member of a Command squad (or the rumoured 'Lion Guard' unit) or possibly any Unforgiven infantry unit. makes 'em Fearless and boosts Attack characteristics or grants re-rolls etc etc.

 

Not sure what else he could do ... :P .

[Brother Immolator]

This sounds too much like a DA 'Commissar' type figure though, but I'm liking the general direction.

Not sure what else he could do ... huh.gif .

 

Its for your own good rolls,and in an allies setting such as apocalypse mandatory lobotomisation of inquisitors into plasma cannon servitors.

 

Though he would need a mandatory plasma pistol in order to penetrate power armor for said rolls.

 

:P

[SeattleDV8]

Plasma cannon Terminators.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'd like to see our adherence to the Codex Astartes dropped some in favor of some possible new playing style, something other than "allota Termis" or "allota bikes!" (no, I'm not sure what, and I don't think I'd post them here even if I had ideas).

 

Some new special characters, especially from some of the Successor Chapters, being included would be welcome.

 

Something I'd really like to see happen from GW would be parallel development of Codexes for the Legions/First Foundings and their successors that are as big as the current C:SM and include as many Special Characters, but only for that particular Legion. Have several overlapping play styles, so you aren't having to balance 50 different types of army lists, but give one or two unique play styles to each Codex that is somewhat reflective of that former Legion's outlook on warfare, rather than just having a single special character that does this.

[EPK]

Plasma cannon Terminators.

 

And immune to gets hot!?!?

[Master Barachiel]

What I'd totally wish would be Land Raider Ares added to the Heavy Support, maybe with the limit of 1 per army.

 

I'd also wish some kind of heavy flyer that can blast from the sky. But it should NOT be an stormraven with other weapon options. That would be lame as hell.

 

Hmm, maybe they could change the troops option. I mean, the BA got those assault squads as troops. The SW and GK can use terminators as troops. Any Standard Space Marine Chapter may select a Captain on bike an have bike squadrons (composed of 5 bikers at least) as troops. Hell, what makes the DA still special? Maybe they should simply let us have Company Veterans as troops, which would clearfy fluff, too. Many ppl suppose anyway that Company Veterans are upgraded Tactical Squads.

 

---

 

Well, just a little side note. Yesterday a GW worker told me that it could be next month already for the new DA vs. CSM - starter pack. I'm very, very happy for that. Even if it was just for a unique Company Master or somethin'..

[Onisuzume]

I'd have to chirp in, that Dominion Squad idea isn't a half bad, if only a blatant rip-off of the Adepta Sororitas.

 

Are we talking about the devs?I had no idea that dominions were capable of fire on the move.

I actually ripped off the old deathwatch rules that used suspensors to make heavy bolters assault instead of heavy, but for all heavy weapons.

No, the special-weapon "devastators".

Fast Attack choice but with 2-4 special weapons instead of heavy weapons.

*That* would be a blatant rip-off of the Dominion Squads.

Its actually not a rip-off of anything. In 2ED Suspensors were available to HW's for a price. Now if I can only find the reference. /quote]

I don't think that we actually had that available as an option to our devastators.

Either it would've been on a wargear card (and thus mostly limited to characters), or in Dark Millenium, which I don't own.

[MadDoc]

Its actually not a rip-off of anything. In 2ED Suspensors were available to HW's for a price. Now if I can only find the reference.

I don't think that we actually had that available as an option to our devastators.

Either it would've been on a wargear card (and thus mostly limited to characters), or in Dark Millenium, which I don't own.

The only time I can remember where there's been (relatively) open access to suspensors for heavy weapons was back in Rogue Trader (and it was usually the luck of the roll in most instances back then anyway). 2E didn't have wide access to suspensors (with the exception of them being mounted on some support weapons (such as Tarantula platforms)).

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Thunderlions.

 

Werelion mutations.

 

Relentless Devastators with Plasma Cannons that ignore -ALL- saves.

 

Tuchulcha.

 

20-man RW bikers with power lances that always strike first, at S8 on charge.

 

Watcher upgrades on squads granting plasma immunity.

 

Interrogators with an ability to send a number of units off the board based on how many people in your LFGS you force to leave with a gruesome graphical description of a torture scene.

[Brother Immolator]

Its actually not a rip-off of anything. In 2ED Suspensors were available to HW's for a price. Now if I can only find the reference.

I don't think that we actually had that available as an option to our devastators.

Either it would've been on a wargear card (and thus mostly limited to characters), or in Dark Millenium, which I don't own.

The only time I can remember where there's been (relatively) open access to suspensors for heavy weapons was back in Rogue Trader (and it was usually the luck of the roll in most instances back then anyway). 2E didn't have wide access to suspensors (with the exception of them being mounted on some support weapons (such as Tarantula platforms)).

 

Anyway it was also in the index astarted articles for the deathwatch,thats were i got the idea.