Chaos Spawns

[loku]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qiOpyVnm3rA/T7aAKIS2oiI/AAAAAAAAIPo/ZSUuzfIO_To/s320/chaos_spawn_super.jpg

 

A chaos spawn its a beast, so... it move as infantry (6"), run for mindless (1D6") and assault as beast (12"). But, a chaos spawn is Slow and Purposeful; how it move?

 

move 1D6", run 1D6" and assault ¿?D6.

 

How many D6 have to roll for assault? And how many D6 chose for assault?

 

In D6 roll:

 

roll 2D6" and chose 1 to move, run 1D6" and roll 3D6" and chose 2 for assault?

[the jeske]

d6 move d6 fleet 2d6"charge. they are in deed bad.

[dswanick]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qiOpyVnm3rA/T7aAKIS2oiI/AAAAAAAAIPo/ZSUuzfIO_To/s320/chaos_spawn_super.jpg

 

A chaos spawn its a beast, so... it move as infantry (6"), run for mindless (1D6") and assault as beast (12"). But, a chaos spawn is Slow and Purposeful; how it move?

 

move 1D6", run 1D6" and assault ¿?D6.

 

How many D6 have to roll for assault? And how many D6 chose for assault?

 

In D6 roll:

 

roll 2D6" and chose 1 to move, run 1D6" and roll 3D6" and chose 2 for assault?

Yes, move (2)d6 pick the higher, run d6, assault (2)d6 X2 - and will always strike last due to Slow and Purposeful.

[Ammonius]

...and will always strike last due to Slow and Purposeful.

Where is this in the slow and purposeful rule?

 

But yeah, chaos spawn are terribad, unless they used to be one of your enemies.

[Lysere]

I believe the answer to that is the fact that the rule states that they always move as if moving through difficult terrain or some such. When you have to roll for difficult terrain while assaulting then you go last by default.

[dswanick]

...and will always strike last due to Slow and Purposeful.

Where is this in the slow and purposeful rule?

 

But yeah, chaos spawn are terribad, unless they used to be one of your enemies.

"SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL

Models with this special rule are relentless (see above). However, they always count as moving through difficult terrain (including in assaults)." - BRB, Pg.76

"ASSAULTING THROUGH COVER

To represent this, if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their Initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking, regardless of other Initiative modifiers" - BRB, Pg.36

[Muskie]

They indeed suck. I was thinking about them well Beasts of Nurgle the other day. Basically I have painted models and in second edition regularly fielded my one pet Beast of Nurgle as a wargear card and lascannon shield. Demons seem to be on the outs, when they used to be an integral part of my chaos space marine army. I didn't go 50:50 but maybe 70:30 ratio of CSM to demons. I even had plans to do a thirty or at least 15 Nurgling stand army at a GT once.

 

Meat shields may be coming back to Chaos Space Marines in the form of cultists, WS2, BS2 if they are like what Forgeworld lists say, with the possibility of boosting them wargear or inspiring leadership. Spawn and demon princes may be the only non demon engines in the next Chaos Codex so either I buy the demon codex and try to make an all Nurgle army without that special character, or 50+ painted models sit on a shelf or in a box for 4 or 5 years, as I don't play much WFB and an all Nurgle demon army sucks pretty hard in WFB. I guess the other option is to paint up some Slaneesh or Khorne demons.

 

I'd like to have a demonic component to my future CSM army and one of the first armies I ran under the then new rules was the all random army, three spawn and three dreads. It didn't work well. I don't think I've used spawn since. Models with zero ranged attacks and that are slower than average make no tactical sense unless they are truly hard to kill.

 

I toyed with running a wave of spawn, GW released that box of ten plastic spawn models... I've never played Apocalypse, but the idea is visually appealing but they just die too easily and move too slowly. If there was some mechanism where it was possible to create multiple spawn out of your enemies with psychic powers it might make them more feasible, but as a Fast Attack choice they are #fail.

 

Unless you have money and time to burn, buying and painting lots of spawn makes no sense for a Chaos Space Marine player.

[Kol Saresk]

In an Apocalypse game, you could load up on that KSons Covenant list(read as "converted plague marine hive") and load everyone up on Gift of Chaos, add some spawn, carry some extra spawn models around and then let the mayhem commence and use the spawn to tie units in CC or as meat shields.

[loku]

Thanks to all!

 

A chaos spawn are realy bad, but I was curious about the slow and purposeful!

[Ammonius]

Oh man, they're worse than I thought!

[Lysere]

The thing to remember is with gift of chaos you can alleviate the need for them to walk across the board, or rather, turn your enemies characters into spawn.

[Kristoff]

A chaos spawn are realy bad, but I was curious about the slow and purposeful!

 

To know how bad Spawn are, you really DO need to know about every negative aspect of SnP, so it's good to have this type of discussion.

[loku]

To know how bad Spawn are, you really DO need to know about every negative aspect of SnP, so it's good to have this type of discussion.

 

Thanks!

[Possessed Marine]

and all of that for the low, low price of 40 pts a model :)

[Vesper]

And $41.

[Brother Nihm]

While we're at it.

 

A dedicated assault unit with:

No save.

No frags.

[Ammonius]

While we're at it.

 

A dedicated assault unit with:

No save.

No frags.

Fearless + No save is my favorite part of the Chaos Spawn "design"

[techsoldaten]

Spawn are terrible units and should never be played in competitive games. Their negatives outweigh any positives someone could hope to realize by including them in an army list, and the randomness of their movement makes them very unpredictable.

 

But they should not be considered completely useless. Their benefits become apparent in fun games where a little randomness is acceptable. I personally find them to be about as effective as a Land Raider when used in mass. I think this is one unit where the no save / survivability aspect of using them is given too much weight. The way I think about them, they are not going to kill their own points cost, but they are going to make it so other units can kill more than their points cost.

 

Just having them on the board can have a big impact on the other player's strategy.

 

I will occasionally field 6 spawn to march them up the field at the enemy, usually bringing along 2 winged DPs and troops in Rhinos. It is a lot of points, but think about it from an opponent's point of view. Instead of there just being 2 DP to focus fire on in the early rounds, now there are 4 big CC threats to worry about and you have to make a choice about what to take out before it gets too close. The spawn are usually the closest after the first round, and more often than not they get targeted heavily since d6 Str 5 attacks x3 can wipe out an entire unit in a single round. 3 of these things is more of an offensive threat than a single DP, and they can potentially come at you from a greater range.

 

Yes, the spawn do often die before they get into CC, but it never happens without at least 2 rounds of concentrated fire from the other side. This creates a lot of opportunities for other units, especially my DPs, who can also cause a lot of havok, and Berzerkers, following up from behind.