Legion Military strengths after the siege of Terra

[nuclearship]

Hi there

 

I suppose we can count the second foundings as an estimate what was left of the Legions at least after the scouring.

 

That would be this numbers:

 

1st Legion – Dark Angels: 4’000 Marines

 

5th Legion – White Scars: 5’000 Marines

 

6th Legion – Space Wolves: 2’000 Marines (or close to 3’000 if considered they never wanted to split)

 

7th Legion – Imperial Fists: 3’000 Marines (or 4’000? Black Templars were more than 1’000 from the beginning or did they grow later?)

 

9th Legion – Blood Angels: 5’000 Marines

 

10th Legion – Iron Hands: 3’000 Marines

 

13th Legion – Ultramarines: 24’000 Marines

 

18th Legion – Salamanders: 1’000 Marines

 

19th Legion – Raven Guard: 4’000 Marines

 

Counting the Legions were around 50’000 – 100’000 – there was indeed heavy attrition at the battle of Terra so the White Scars, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels were brought low. Obviously the bulk of the scouring was taken on by the Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines were they also lost many Marines (even the Ultarmarines only had 10% left if you consider the 250’000 Marines they once were). The Salamanders seems to never have recovered from Istvaan and the Raven Guard and Iron Hands also retained their low numbers after that even.

[Kol Saresk]

One thing about the Salamanders, they only have seven Companies but other than that and how the companies were readjusted, they are Codex-adherent, but with less Battle and Reserve Companies than a normal Chapter. And I think I read somewhere they have 120 Marines to a Company as well, which should put their numbers around 840. If they only have 100 per Company, it lowers their numbers further.

 

Do not forget Post Heresy Recruitment into the legions. Loses are high among them but they still have the capacity to make marines, although sometimes made with equal parts science and warp tech. Some legions would have bleed dry by now if not for that. Also time runs weird/stops/ reverses in the Eye. The black legion does actively recruit members of other Astartes into its fold but at the time of the heresy they did not. Ultimately this entire thread is up to conjecture depending on who and what you want to believe from the past 25 years of game lore.

Just saw this. This makes the best sense.

[Nazguire]

Hi there

 

I suppose we can count the second foundings as an estimate what was left of the Legions at least after the scouring.

 

That would be this numbers:

 

1st Legion – Dark Angels: 4’000 Marines

 

5th Legion – White Scars: 5’000 Marines

 

6th Legion – Space Wolves: 2’000 Marines (or close to 3’000 if considered they never wanted to split)

 

7th Legion – Imperial Fists: 3’000 Marines (or 4’000? Black Templars were more than 1’000 from the beginning or did they grow later?)

 

9th Legion – Blood Angels: 5’000 Marines

 

10th Legion – Iron Hands: 3’000 Marines

 

13th Legion – Ultramarines: 24’000 Marines

 

18th Legion – Salamanders: 1’000 Marines

 

19th Legion – Raven Guard: 4’000 Marines

 

Counting the Legions were around 50’000 – 100’000 – there was indeed heavy attrition at the battle of Terra so the White Scars, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels were brought low. Obviously the bulk of the scouring was taken on by the Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines were they also lost many Marines (even the Ultarmarines only had 10% left if you consider the 250’000 Marines they once were). The Salamanders seems to never have recovered from Istvaan and the Raven Guard and Iron Hands also retained their low numbers after that even.

 

 

You're assuming that the Legions split up entirely evenly after the Heresy. I feel that this wouldn't have been the case. Maybe perhaps for the Ultramarines who wanted to set an example and show that they would adhere to their own ideas, but not so for the other Legions.

 

What if the Raven Guard had 4331 Marines left after the Heresy? Do they split up into 4 Chapters and send the remaining 331 into the merry void? Do they set up a chapter of 331 Marines? Or do they simply let these Marines stay as part of the Raven Guard and adjust recruitment accordingly? This is what I feel would have happened.

 

Rather than go 'Right, we have roughly 5000 Marines left after the Heresy, 5 Chapters here we come!' the Legions would have decided how many were comfortable splitting off into and then any remainder kept within the new Chapter/s until they had died off from attrition. This logic would have applied doubly to the Space Wolves who, I assume, would have had to have been coaxed rather forcefully to split up. As they split right down the middle we can't just assume that there were 2000 Space Wolves left (even Battle of the Fang disputes this) and that they had agreed on how many Chapters would be created, and let the Chapter gradually slide down to the number of 1000 Space Wolves over time.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Here's the thing, following the logic of being badly mauled, they should not have been much a fight to claim, what was it, six Primarchs since I know of at least three who just disappeared. The Traitors were also able to launch a Black Crusade within the same millennium and were still considered just as large a threat as the Heresy itself. In fact, that First Black Crusade is the Crusade that killed Rogal Dorn. And it took place after the Scouring IIRC.

 

As Hellios pointed out, once Horus died, the Siege became a free-for-all, a "Last one to the Eye is a loser" sort of thing. And yet at least fourteen(seventeen if you want to include M'Kar's siege of Ultramar, the Word Bearers action at the Boros Gate, and the Cholercaust Blood Crusade from Legion of the Damned, which are all Black Library events) times in the history of the Imperium, the Legions have not only themselves been considered high-level threats, but the Traitor Guardsmen and countless Renegade Marines they bring in their wake make the threat even higher. And depending on which version you follow, the first twelve crusades(some of which were not led by Abaddon I must point out, at least not openly) were precursors to the thirteenth or all thirteen crusades were pin point attacks that time and time again went against the best defense the Imperium could muster. And the thirteenth time, they broke open the Cadian Gate. There was also the Dominion of Fire(the fourteenth action), which was solely a World Eaters action as far as I know, and ended at Armageddon at the cost of how many Grey Knights dying just to banish Angron to the warp? And his banishment is what ended the crusade, not a decisive show of military strength, as like the Siege before, when the leader left, the individual warbands split back into self-survival mode.

This is taking way too many logic gaps for me. Remember the Black Crusades would also include all sorts of non-legionary forces like Daemons, all of which went *poof* on Terra after Horus was killed which likely contributed to it turning into a rout, and traitor humans (Guard, cultists, etc). The ability for Chaos to launch Black Crusades is not wholly dependent on the number of surviving Legionnaires. Just like their Imperial counterparts, Chaos Marines make up only a small portion of the overall military numbers. Cultists and Guardsmen are like Doritos. Crunch all you want, we'll make more. It stands to logic that the Legions have ways of making more Marines still. They have access to their own gene seed, plus all the other heretical science and magic they have access to now. It doesn't stand to logic that they can frontally assault the Imperial Palace and escape unscathed. If the loyal Legions at Terra were badly mauled, and we know they were based on how few 2nd Founding chapters they contributed compared to the Ultramarines (Approximately 1/2 for eight Legions compared to 1/2 for just the Ultramarines), then the traitors would have been even more so just by the basic reasoning of military precedent in frontal assaults. Trying to believe that the traitor legions weren't decimated seems like it flies in the face of both logic, and what we know. We know the Blood Angels went berzerk and the White Scars and Imperial Fists followed them, which means the routing traitors were slaughtered all the way to their ships. And we know it took the better part of a millenium for them to become a coherent force again. 1,000 years is a long time. Even if they'd been dropped to 25% or less, they could have easily been replacing their numbers. They could well have started by converting traitor Imperial Army soldiers into Marines. After all, Chaos isn't worried about gene seed purity, or doing things the right way anymore, lol.

[Badhaggis]

Although not everyone has the aptitude to become SM, many reject the bionics and geneseed implants.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Yeah, but Chaos Marines aren't held to the same exacting standards, nor do they have all, or perhaps even most, of the implants anymore these days. The size, strength, speed, and toughness of Chaos Marines can be enhanced by warp-based mutation rather than surgery and other forms of modification. You can't rebuild a Space Marine Chapter out of a Guard regiment or underhive scum (anymore, lol). But you can rebuild a Chaos Legion out of one.

[Kol Saresk]

Emperor's Swords and Crimson Consuls recruited underhive scum. I believe the Necromunda series says that the Imperial Fists do the same.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Ian Watson's classic novel Space Marine said that the Imperial Fists did. That's why I included it with the caveat of "anymore" and an "lol", as a nod to that story. Because those stories predate the current incarnation (and by current I mean the last 20 years, or the majority of the game's life) of Space Marine canon which requires that Marine recruits are typically chosen around age 6. Remember, there's going to be a huge amount of screening, both physical and psychological, that comes long before the Chapter takes the risk of investing its gene seed in a candidate. Certain stories do conflict this, but that's attributed more to authorial error (or license) than differentiations in recruitment protocol. Ian Watson's story is a classic, but it's totally irreconcilable with the modern fluff for Space Marines. So if these chapters are recruiting from underhives, it's still going to be amongst the toughest children of those populations, and not from adults, or even adolescents like I was suggesting they cannot. After all, it seems a bit unfair to refer to children as scum, lol.

[A D-B]

I think there's also the possibility for some (several? dozen? hundred?) Chapters being founded with a few hundred Marines, and it being a case of "Now start recruiting."

[MordentHex]

After all, it seems a bit unfair to refer to children as scum, lol.

pfff says who? :) "move you little turds or its da hammer for you!"

 

I think there's also the possibility for some (several? dozen? hundred?) Chapters being founded with a few hundred Marines, and it being a case of "Now start recruiting."

Highly plausible, but I do believe the intent of forming a new founding would be to set them up right in the first place not ham string them from the beginning with a mandatory massive recruitment drive to stay alive.

[Perrin]

After all, it seems a bit unfair to refer to children as scum, lol.

pfff says who? :) "move you little turds or its da hammer for you!"

 

I think there's also the possibility for some (several? dozen? hundred?) Chapters being founded with a few hundred Marines, and it being a case of "Now start recruiting."

Highly plausible, but I do believe the intent of forming a new founding would be to set them up right in the first place not ham string them from the beginning with a mandatory massive recruitment drive to stay alive.

Or set up a new chapter with the minimum amount of neccessary marines, and give them a few decades leave from being ordered into battle by Terra. Instead of setting up a single chapter with 1000 marines, you could set up 5 chapters of 200 marines, give each of them a small fleet or world to recruit from, then a century or two later you have 5 chapters of 1000 marines, rather than just the single chapter you started with.

[Pulse]

Or set up a new chapter with the minimum amount of neccessary marines, and give them a few decades leave from being ordered into battle by Terra. Instead of setting up a single chapter with 1000 marines, you could set up 5 chapters of 200 marines, give each of them a small fleet or world to recruit from, then a century or two later you have 5 chapters of 1000 marines, rather than just the single chapter you started with.

Exactly!

[Veteran Sergeant]

Or set up a new chapter with the minimum amount of neccessary marines, and give them a few decades leave from being ordered into battle by Terra. Instead of setting up a single chapter with 1000 marines, you could set up 5 chapters of 200 marines, give each of them a small fleet or world to recruit from, then a century or two later you have 5 chapters of 1000 marines, rather than just the single chapter you started with.

While this seems like it would make sense, it isn't that easy.

 

The problem is, dividing into units that small makes them significantly less effective as individual forces. Say you did this with 5 chapters. Instead of 5 combat effective Space Marine Chapters, you'd have 25 under-strength ones with a limited mission profile (as in, not being able to perform every mission type that Marines are expected to) for 100 years or so. :lol: Remember, Chapters don't exist in a vacuum either. These are combat units, which will suffer casualties. The less total numbers they have, the longer it takes them to recover, and the less mission profiles they can fulfill effectively. The training process trying to replace Marines piecemeal is a highly inefficient use of resources. Given the intensity of Marine selection, it's much better to have "classes" of 50 or 100 recruits at a time rather than 5 or 10.

 

In the end, it's far better to have the five Chapters which can perform a full spectrum of missions while replenishing combat losses, and spend 100 years building 20 new ones.

[TheDarker]

Only if you believe BL books. In this publications Scouts seems (actually, MUST) to become Space Marines in a very short time (10 years or less) so they can replace casualties in war. That and/or an Space marine company only have one battle every year (probably less...) so they can afford losses. After reading the Ultramarines series i have to think that either they recruit very fast (contradicting previous fluff), train very fast (again, against fluff) or they actually battel very little...

 

Plus, a chapter of 300 marines could be viable... but they will have to choose VERY carefully his battles. More if we agree with the BL way-of-things. But if they fight "little" wars or just "support" other Imperial forces, they can end wars easily without many casualties, and gain considerable knowledge. In a few centuries they would even be able to participate alone in bigger wars.

 

Oh, and about the topic. I had to think that the WE were the shortest Legion after the war. In the BL books (galaxy in flames, i think) it´s stated that after Istvaan (III or V, can´t remember) their numbers were less than half. If it was after the purgue that mean that they still have to battle in the front line of Istvaan V, against the fleeing RG, and in the assault of the IMPERIAL PALACE. And then, they go back to the eye of terror and... fight EC. I think that barely a 10% of the WE survived all the Heresy... (in fact with his policy of "frontal assault, always" i still don´t know how they are still WE around....

[Badhaggis]

Isn't part of the fluff that chapters rareley fight as one unit, and instead tend to organise as companies, except on rare occasions, like crusades.

 

edit; SP

[Veteran Sergeant]

Only if you believe BL books. In this publications Scouts seems (actually, MUST) to become Space Marines in a very short time (10 years or less) so they can replace casualties in war. That and/or an Space marine company only have one battle every year (probably less...) so they can afford losses. After reading the Ultramarines series i have to think that either they recruit very fast (contradicting previous fluff), train very fast (again, against fluff) or they actually battel very little...

Remember, it takes Marines to make new Marines. Until the progenoids mature, you can't make new Marines because there is no gene seed to create them with. Hence a 1000 strong chapter regenerates much faster because they can essentially harvest matured progenoids on a regular basis, and have the gene seed available. With less than 1000 Marines, you have to recruit proportionately slower. That's why it takes decimated chapters so long to recover. Especially if they lose gene stock stores. Technically so long as one Marine lives, you can recreate the Chapter. But it will take just short of forever. An established chapter like the "modern" Ultramarines probably has vast stores of gene seed (since every Marine can make 2 Marines). Brand new chapters may not have that. Especially at the time they were divided up from the Legions for the Second Founding because at that point the Legions were recruiting as fast as they could, so wouldn't as likely have huge unused stocks of geneseed.

[Kol Saresk]

Ian Watson's classic novel Space Marine said that the Imperial Fists did. That's why I included it with the caveat of "anymore" and an "lol", as a nod to that story. Because those stories predate the current incarnation (and by current I mean the last 20 years, or the majority of the game's life) of Space Marine canon which requires that Marine recruits are typically chosen around age 6. Remember, there's going to be a huge amount of screening, both physical and psychological, that comes long before the Chapter takes the risk of investing its gene seed in a candidate. Certain stories do conflict this, but that's attributed more to authorial error (or license) than differentiations in recruitment protocol.

I have never heard that they had to be that young. The last I heard on that thing GW used to have describing the different gene-seed implants said the typical age of recruits was from like twelve to twenty-one, when the body was still pumping out growth hormones starting from puberty to just post-puberty when there were still an abundance of those organs in the body.

 

In the Space Wolves Omnibus, specifically the first book which I think is called Space Wolf(go figure), Ragnar actually had sex right before he was recruited. And I think that was written in the last 20 years. I'd like to think that at any rate lol.

 

On the recruitment screening policies, to be honest I don't know what to think about them. Some fluff says that they are perfect. But if they were perfect then no one would turn Traitor without direct exposure to the warp. But there are more than enough Renegade Chapters out there who betrayed the Imperium for a reason other than "I heard voices" or they got stuck in a warp storm. There also wouldn't be Chapters like the Marines Malevolent, Red Scorpions and Astral Sharks who have a complete and total disregard for mortal life. So obviously they are not perfect as some would interpret the fluff. But at the same time they are not "Hey, you caught our eye. Welcome to the Chapter." Like you said, there are specific requirements that have to be met. However, I am of the opinion that those requirements change from Chapter to Chapter, regardless of adherence to Codex. Invariably, every Chapter becomes shaped by those it pulls into its ranks. The Flesh Tearers draw in those who survive in the jungles of Cretacia. The result are survivors who will do anything to continue to survive. The Mortifactors draw in youths from another deathworld that never sees the sky and one is constantly surrounded by death. They are a Chapter that has an obsession with death. Much like the Doom Eagles who are of similar circumstances. The Exorcists take their recruits and possess them with daemons. To me, this is a way to properly explain the recruitment policy's flaws and yet still show that every interpretation of those policies is the right one because they all involve different Chapters.

[lokkorex]

i've read that loyalists only harvest the progenoid gland within their upper body, and that the other one has been sort of left alone for the last ten thousand years, to prevent a chapter from amassing more marines and start a second heresy.

 

it takes fifty years for the mechanicus, or whoever is responsible for the gene-seed, to produce the 1,000 sets of gene-seed for a new chapter. said so in the first compilation of index astartes.

 

so would it really be so weird if they produced a couple of hundred marines and sent them on their way with their remaining gene-seed to find a good world to recruit from?

[Ubermensch Commander]

i've read that loyalists only harvest the progenoid gland within their upper body, and that the other one has been sort of left alone for the last ten thousand years, to prevent a chapter from amassing more marines and start a second heresy.

 

Not exactly, they take the one of the two glands from a full Adeptus right off the bat and reclaim the second one upon his death. In this way, each marine creates two more. And it prevents "eggs in one basket" syndrome. Gene seed stores annihilated? We still have some from the surviving marines. Forces decimated in ways that prevent gene-seed reclamation? Well, break out the old Primarch-code piggy bank.

 

As for recruitment methods: Although not always consistently portrayed (Looking at YOU Space Wolves) the detailed descriptions of the process in the Space Marine Codices and White Dwarf Articles emphasize the difficulty in recruiting for Space Marines. The only reason the Imperium maintains its numbers is A) the sheer mass of population it can draw upon and :D the Plot calls for it. ^_^

Aspirants must be mentally and physically fit enough to meet the stringent requirements and must be genetically compatible and free of mutations. This last aspect is one that tends to get downplayed alot, presumably to allow for things such as "quirky" chapters or the Chaos Marine forces consisting of more than 5 marines, Abaddon, and a mariachi band.

 

Which brings us back to the Chaos forces after the Siege of Terra: They shouldn't even exist as a viable threat...except that the Plot calls for it.

 

First, internal purges at the start of the Heresy drastically reduced the fighting power of the Chaos forces. Whether it be Word Bearers removing loyal chaplains, the big fights on Isstvaan (Virus Bombing one, not the Dropsite Massacre), or loyal Iron Warrior fortresses acting as efficient roadbumps, there is evidence of conflict amongst Horus' forces. Then, the wear and tear of combat. Already we have weakened forces, not counting the (relatively minor) causalities stemming from the Chaos forces not giving a fig about "friendly fire" or outright power struggles. The scene from First Heretic at the drop site massacres springs to mind, with the Iron Warriors flippantly telling the Word Bearers to "Have Faith!" as they blast away comes to mind.

Then of course, the Siege of Terra itself. Rampant Chaos Possession (Black Legion and Word Bearers mainly), hurling oneself at the walls (World Eaters and Iron Warriors mainly) and unreliable allies (Emperor's Children) when assaulting the strongest man-made fortification in the galaxy makes for some noticeable causalities. Now, granted, that is why one has Daemons and Cultists there to soak some it up, but that only reduces the toll, not eliminates it.

 

Descriptions of the Heresy following Horus death at the hands of the Emperor mention a disorganized rout as the Chaos forces engage in a mad scramble for their ships. This entails a heavy loss of manpower and material. Then, the Scouring. 10 years, hardly enough time to generate one batch of new recruits, and then they have lost all of their holdings in the material realm. See: Driven from their homeworlds- Lost production facilities, lost recruitment pools, and casualties inflicted the whole way. This is not to discount the causalities inflicted in return, only to demonstrate the inability to replace the lost numbers of goods and personnel.

 

Then the conflicts within the Eye of Terror itself. Even allowing that all ships made it safely into that gaping hole in the fabric of reality, there is precious little there. The Chaos Marines set about fighting amongst one another, squabbling over resources and reducing their numbers even further. Then the recruitment difficulties.

As mentioned above, the whole "genetic compatibility" thing tends to be downplayed. I imagine warped degenerates in Demon Worlds don't make the most stable stock and certainly the Chaos Marine stock would suffer. If Loyalist stock has suffered degeneration over the 10,000 years following the Hersey, the Chaos stock should be shot to useless and back again.

 

The old chestnut "Time passes differently in the warp" always annoyed me. If it is being used to justify the same Marines who sieged the palace still kicking around, how then is there time to get new recruits? So time both slows down...and speeds up. Bah. Cop-Out. Doesn't sit right. But hey, the Plot calls for it.

 

So between the internal conflicts draining resources, losses over the Heresy, heavy losses at the Siege, heavy losses during the Scouring, and further losses during internal fighting inside the Eye of Terror, I am amazed there are more than a handful left.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Ian Watson's classic novel Space Marine said that the Imperial Fists did. That's why I included it with the caveat of "anymore" and an "lol", as a nod to that story. Because those stories predate the current incarnation (and by current I mean the last 20 years, or the majority of the game's life) of Space Marine canon which requires that Marine recruits are typically chosen around age 6. Remember, there's going to be a huge amount of screening, both physical and psychological, that comes long before the Chapter takes the risk of investing its gene seed in a candidate. Certain stories do conflict this, but that's attributed more to authorial error (or license) than differentiations in recruitment protocol.

I have never heard that they had to be that young. The last I heard on that thing GW used to have describing the different gene-seed implants said the typical age of recruits was from like twelve to twenty-one, when the body was still pumping out growth hormones starting from puberty to just post-puberty when there were still an abundance of those organs in the body.

It goes all the way back to 1989 and Rick Priestley's article "The Origins of the Legiones Astartes" from WD 98. This article has been reprinted continuously, almost verbatim, for the last twenty odd years, including in the Index Astartes books, White Dwarf, The Fantasy Flight games, etc... Can't say I can fathom how you've missed it, lol.

 

In the Space Wolves Omnibus, specifically the first book which I think is called Space Wolf(go figure), Ragnar actually had sex right before he was recruited. And I think that was written in the last 20 years. I'd like to think that at any rate lol.

Well, those books take certain authorial liberties and it isn't the only canon conflict in there.

 

On the recruitment screening policies, to be honest I don't know what to think about them. Some fluff says that they are perfect. But if they were perfect then no one would turn Traitor without direct exposure to the warp. But there are more than enough Renegade Chapters out there who betrayed the Imperium for a reason other than "I heard voices" or they got stuck in a warp storm. There also wouldn't be Chapters like the Marines Malevolent, Red Scorpions and Astral Sharks who have a complete and total disregard for mortal life. So obviously they are not perfect as some would interpret the fluff.

Not all Chapters adhere to the tenets of the Codex on recruitment and training. The portion of the Codex that covered recruitment, training and implantation was designed specifically to reduce the chance of corruption in the Marines. By all appearances, it seems to have worked because there hasn't been another major Heresy yet. For all the aberrant chapters which have discarded those regulations, perhaps the unintended consequences have been defections and corruptions. As far as not caring about mortal life, that may just be a chapter philosophy. Certainly some may see their job as protecting humanity which means the humans (Ultramarines, Salamanders, etc), and others may see it in a more utilitarian way, where protecting the whole is more important than the individual parts.

 

And, please, Space Sharks is the preferred nomenclature. None of this Carcaradons crap. :(

 

However, according to "The Origins of the Legiones Astartes", which may have the distinction of being the longest lasting, unaltered piece of 40K fluff in the game, lol, the timetable for implants is based on biological necessity. That after a certain age, the implant will not mature properly because the body has already reached its adult form and the implant has not. The absolute latest that implantation can begin at is 14, but the ideal is 10. So you have to figure that the indoctrination process would begin well before that, so the Chapters could weed out the weak and unsuited. After all, the longer they wait, the more traumatic the surgeries will be on the body since they are going to do them all in a compressed time frame.

 

And no, it wouldn't be weird. I just said it would be inefficient. Each Marine makes only 2 Marines. One when his extra set of glands matures, and the other when he dies. So his growth coefficient for the chapter is only 1.5. When you assume it takes approximately 8-10 years just to make a new basically trained Marine ready for the Scout Squads, that's a long time to fill out a full 1000 man roster, assuming a zero casualty rate.

[Legatus]

It goes all the way back to 1989 and Rick Priestley's article "The Origins of the Legiones Astartes" from WD 98. This article has been reprinted continuously, almost verbatim, for the last twenty odd years, including in the Index Astartes books, White Dwarf, The Fantasy Flight games, etc... Can't say I can fathom how you've missed it, lol.

He did't miss it. As Kol_Saresk said, the implantation process takes place when the recruit is between twelve and tewnty-one years old (closer to between ten to eighteen years). He hadn't heard about it starting at six years of age, and that is indeed not what the articles say.

[greatcrusade08]

I have never heard that they had to be that young. The last I heard on that thing GW used to have describing the different gene-seed implants said the typical age of recruits was from like twelve to twenty-one, when the body was still pumping out growth hormones starting from puberty to just post-puberty when there were still an abundance of those organs in the body.

It goes all the way back to 1989 and Rick Priestley's article "The Origins of the Legiones Astartes" from WD 98. This article has been reprinted continuously, almost verbatim, for the last twenty odd years, including in the Index Astartes books, White Dwarf, The Fantasy Flight games, etc... Can't say I can fathom how you've missed it, lol.

 

i didnt miss it, i wrote a small article using that same source as my main body of text.. and it clearly shows a recruit is between the ages of 10 to 14..

i dont know where you get this age range of 6 years old from, it sounds absurd.

 

the ultramarines are frequently noted as taking recruits into academies at about that age, but the academies dont make space marines, they make gaurdsmen, the best are selected for recruitment once they reach the right age

 

edit, ninja'd by legs

[Marshal Rohr]

Some chapters take younger recruits. Red Scorpions take babies for instance...

[Legatus]

Ah yes, the Macragge Academies start at an age of six. Maybe that's where Veteran Sergeant got that particular age from.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I didn't get it from anywhere. I was making an educated guess based on what would make sense. If the implantation process ideally starts at 10, then it stands to logic and reason that there's a screening process that begins well before that time period. Where they test recruits for mental aptitude, physical and genetic compatibility, etc. After all, if they waste gene seed on a recruit that is sub-standard and either dies or does not make it, they've got to start over and they've lost that bit of gene seed. Again, standing to reason that they'd take a bit of time to ensure a maximum potential for success. Not every chapter is just going to roll the dice and and hope their aspirant doesn't turn into a dog. :( McNeill's choice to use the age of six is simply showing that from time to time, he can make good decisions when writing about Ultramarines. And it corroborates the idea that Marine recruitment starts well in advance of the actual implantation process. But, again, that just makes sense.

 

I may have misunderstood Kol's post. I thought he was suggesting that he believed the recruits could start the process as late as 21.