Scouts

[greendestiny]

Do you take scouts?

 

If so, what do you use them for and how do you kit them out?

 

If not, why not?

 

I am working on my Red Wolves army and thinking about how to use scouts. I love scout models and thier fluff. I don't really know much about them.

[rusty1109]

Yes.

 

Alpha strike landspeeder storm team.

 

Powerfist, Combi melta, 4 x Bolt pistols and close combat weapons.

[greatcrusade08]

scouts can be excellent additions to an army, my usual advice is to have a specific use in mind and stick to that 'plan'..

best standard options are snipers with telion or cloaks, or a large unit of outflanking ccw scouts.

 

alternatively if youve the FA slots available a land speeder storm can be invaluable

 

have a look at my sig for tactical advice

[*Furyou Miko]

gc08 is pretty much the go-to-guy for Scouts. ^^;

 

I used to use a couple of squads of Scouts (one snipers, one CC) as my core units before I had enough Sisters to field a pure army (using the old Allies rules, not the ones from the WH book!), and found them both useful and fun. They were relatively tough to shift (3+ cover saves!) and highly lethal, even after they got nerfed to hitting on a 4.

[Koremu]

I've never had much success with Sniper Scouts - they just don't work well with my playstyle.

 

Scouts with a Land Speeder Storm or Scout Bikers however, are awesome.

[DarkGuard]

I quite like my Scouts, although not enough to use them all the time. It comes down to whether I have the points in my list. I like taking a small sniper/bolter squad with Telion and a missile launcher for backfield objective scoring and support, they're quite resilient thanks to Stealth when put in cover, while the missile launcher is pretty nasty with Telion, and Telion's not too bad himself at doing damage.

 

I've also used small units with shotguns/CCWs and a combi-melta, often with power weapon or power fist and meltabombs, as a disruption unit. They either outflank and attack units or tanks in the corners of the board, or load up in a MM LSS which looks to get closer to the enemy with its Scout move and then pull off an alpha strike on the enemy. However, I do find the melta LSS to be a bit hit and miss at times. Even with a 4++ save from going flat out it's been shot down many times by an enemy stealing the initiative (and they always steal the initiative), blunting my alpha strike. That statline is very unforgivable, if it gets hit by anything remotely anti-tank it'll probably be taken out.

 

I've yet to try out a big combat squad like GC08 describes, my own playstyle and army building philosophy has me using Scouts as small 5 man teams to support the main force at things that force is struggling to do, and so I therefore don't like sinking too many points into them.

 

As this is a tactics question I've moved this to Tactica Astartes.

[greendestiny]

I am working on two SM armies.

 

My version of Black Templars- The Maltese Falcons (conceptually painted like Knights Hospitallers). So scouts would be the neophites.

 

My Red Wolves. Officially these guys are a codex chapter but I haven't decided to use them as Codex Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or a Chaos Korne Marines army.

 

So I have 20 basic scouts that I got for a good deal. I was thinking of giving both armies 10 of each. Trying to think of how to use them.

 

So far some great advice.

[DarkGuard]

With Black Templars I'm guessing combat weapons, maybe shotguns, will be the best way forward, as that gives you plenty of combat ability, which is why you take them.

 

With the Red Wolves, you're making things a bit more difficult there. Wolf Scouts very, very different to standard Space Marine Scouts. Blood Angels are similar, but lack some of the options of C:SM Scouts, ie. no Storms, no Telion, no hellfire rounds for heavy bolter. And of course you can't take Scouts in a Khornate army.

[greendestiny]

Good point Darkguard I forgot when I wrote the previous post that Chaos has no scouts so that option doesn't matter to this thread.

 

So I should ask:

 

How best to model and use:

Codex Scouts

Blood Angel Scouts

Space Wolves Scouts

Black Templar Scouts/ Also on this one how many should I put in a unit as Neophites?

[VoteForPedro]

For Codex Marines at least I find sniper scouts to be the best set up, they do one role (scoring) and they do it well. Bolter scouts (imo) are just a slightly weaker version of sniper scouts. Shotgun/ CCW scouts via a Land Speeder Storm is probably great fun for a few games until you play against people who know what's going to happen :(

 

On that note, in the next Codex: Space Marines I'd love to see Land Speeder Storms as dedicated transports for Scouts.

[Corby]

Codex Scouts

 

They've options such as the landspeeder storm but I don't think they they're that effective. They're best used as objective campers and should always take camo cloaks when used in that role.

 

Blood Angel Scouts

 

In my opinion they're nothing more than a scoring unit whose entire purpose is to camp an objective and go to ground at the first signs of trouble.

 

Space Wolves Scouts

 

5 Wolf scouts with an attached wolf guard with fist and combi-melta is an incredibly good unit/relatively cheap for what it does and is very annoying for opponents to deal with. I'd argue its one of the best units in the game due to how good the Operate behind enemy lines rule is. Its a pretty simple unit to use , just send it on it's merry way to Operate behind enemy lines and when it arrives bring it on in a strong posistion such as in charging range of a firebase , behind tanks etc.

[DarkGuard]

Given my experience I'd be inclined to agree with VoteforPedro. If you build a unit of sniper Scouts with camo cloaks and missile launcher you should be able to use them in either force. The buy the new Finecast Telion and file off his Ultramarine markings if you wish to use him for C:SM, I'd have suggested converting him from the Sergeant but you can't use him in C:DA.

 

If you're looking to use the same models for both Codices I'd avoid forward acting Scouts as Blood Angels have better units for it (Assault squads), while I'd also avoid LSS teams as the Blood Angels can't take them either. However, if you weren't too fussed about that then 5 men with CCWs, (power fist), combi-melta and meltabombs in a multi-melta LSS makes a good alpha strike unit against tanks, just be careful of where you place it, otherwise it'll be shot down.

 

One unit I really want to use at some point, although it'll require more models and actually fitting it into the list, would be a 5 man unit with combi-flamer, power fist and shotguns/CCWs in a heavy flamer Storm. Outflank them all and hit isolated backfield units like Dev squads or Whirlwinds and Preds later on in the game. In objective games they'd make a decent objective taker and have tons of mobility to use. Agan, more of a C:SM thing than the C:BA.

 

You could get away with a power fist, combi-flamer, CCW/shotgun 10 man squad for each Codex though. Healthy mix of both weapons, and infiltrate or outflank and use as an assault squad. With C:BA if you can get a Sang Priest nearby it'll make them better.

[Rysaer]

I generally always take a unit of Sniper Scouts with a Missle Launcher and Telion. I find this is usually the best set up as it makes them very effective and survivable objective sitters as well as allowing for some anti-tank potential if it is required.

 

However I've only ever tried a Land Speeder Storm once or twice with CCW scouts and Shotgun Scouts, so I can't really comment on this as well as the other more experienced players like DarkGuard and VoteforPedro, but I found it to be quite average, if the opponent doesn't expect them or tries to ignore them, they always tend to end up paying for it, but as a unit in general it's a bit of a gamble/situational because if you are playing people with a good deal of experience they will probably know what to do to halt them in their tracks.

 

That's just my 0.02 USD though, I've noticed quite a few people run different set ups of scouts and in general some have worked brilliantly and others have flopped, it's just a case of working out what your army style and needs are I guess.

 

-Rysaer

[greendestiny]

The hardest thing about this is that it makes me want to just buy more scout models and use all the options. I have read that a lot of people don't like the LSS. I am sort of sad that it isn't usable by all SM armies since it is a really cool looking model.

[Imperial Deceit]

I usually take a team of 5 scouts all with sniper rifles and camo-cloaks (because 2+ cover saves are awesome), and a homing beacon to deep strike my Land Raiders down on target. (Risk scatter with 300+ points? No thank you...)

[greendestiny]

Do any of you take the shotgun option? I like the idea and it seems fun. Are they scouts too squishy to go in with the shotguns?

[DarkGuard]

A lot of people do use shotguns, they're often the preferred "melee" weapon as you have the same amount of S4 attacks in one turn total, but two of them come before the enemy can strike with the shotguns (shooting phase) as opposed to only one with the CCWs. However, most people say that in big 10 man squads it's best to get an even mix, as in the second turn of assault onwards the CCW is superior as it gives more attacks then.

 

Also, with LSS teams, I've certainly found CCWs to be better. That's because if your Sergeant blows up a transport his unit can still assault the unit that was inside, but as you've already shot at the tank the Scouts can't shoot at them. Therefore, CCWs provide more attacks. They also give more attacks if you choose not to assault the unit but to make them assault you, slowing them down a little.

[Journeyman]

Like GreatCrusade08 I am a fan of scouts. I run two scouts units ccw 9 off, sgt with pwr fist/ sgt with plasma pistol.

1 troop choice 7 snipers yes, counts as Telion of course plus hvy bltr (hellfire). Probably should add a ML.

LSS, no. I am trying to get numbers on the board, LSS 'crew' come from troop choices; bikes on the other hand add bums on seats (literally). I am currently building up my bike force after talking to my LGS and comparing the pros and cons.

 

Shotguns... look cool, sound good and are on the list to buy. They'd be great going head to head with my greenskin cowboys.

[DerekLee688]

I've heard alot of good things about the LSS. Especially the alpha strike one(MM, combi-melta, power fist). However, meta and role is involved in determining wether the unit is good, not it's stats. Riflemen, foot slogger armies, etc. can lessen the use of the unit. When this happens you have to see it for what it is, a cheap unit of troops in a cheap transport, or counter assault. Vs. Imperial Guard it's a can oppener, vs nids it's counter assault/objective grabber.

 

I want a LSS and scout bikers. The Astartes Grenade Launcher is a sexy weapon and I wish more shooty units could have them; like sternguard, regular TDA, or command squad.

 

I am very intrested in using a 5-scout unit with ML and camo cloaks for a cheap troop choice/ML/objective holder. Telion would make it more dangerous but more expensive. Four sniper rifles sounds underwhelming so I'm thinking CCW's for counter assault. Bolters and Shotguns are for units taking or giving charges(respectively), but a 5-scout unit should do neither. Tac marines or Sternguard would be good for taking the charge and using CCW scouts/Honor guard to support them. I'm thinking of Pedro in such an army.

 

BA Scouts + Sang Priest: I'm thinking shotguns would give you two pre battle hits plus two furious charge attacks or CCW will give you one S4 pistol attack and then three furious charge attacks. Bolters and sniper rifles don't seem as attractive if a Sang Priest is going to be nearby.

[greendestiny]

Okay I am pretty sure I am going with:

 

10 Scouts with my Black Templar army.

 

10 Scouts with my Red Wolves army that will be using the SW book.

 

Since they are neophites in th BT army and that is very assulty should I just give all of them a pistol and sword/chainsword?

 

I know that the SW scouts are different animals, I plan to kit them with a melta gun and close combat weapons.

 

If I want to put any shotguns in these two units, first should I? Second how many in the unit should have them?

[DarkGuard]

I'd go all combat for the Black Templars. Can't say about the shotguns. In C:SM it's normally 50% to 100% with shotguns, not sure about Space Wolves though. They can even take 10 man units of Wolf Scouts? Will be worth checking that out first.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Even if you can take shotguns on wolf scouts, you shouldn't. Meltas, maybe, but the majority of those models should be equipped with CCWs. They exist for one purpose -- to pop onto the table on your opponent's back edge and sack any of his "sit back and shoot" stuff. My buddy uses a squad aall the time, and is constantly assaulting my sniper scouts or Thunderfire Cannon.

[greendestiny]

Okay so on the Space Wolves aka Red Wolves use the scouts as ccw with a multimelta.

 

On the BTs use ccw's.

 

If I were to use the CSM: then Shotguns are good.

 

For close combat scouts do you give them any of the available upgrades? Are there any that are genericly useful for clearing table edge irritations?

 

I have started to work on the models and am pretty excited. I am using the head from the Bretonian Knights sprue for one of my BT knights so that he looks like the guy with the chili bowl cut on pg 12 of the BT codex. I am also going to have one scout in each unit of Initiates and Neophites that has a hunting falcon on his arm. Also fromt he Bretonian Knights sprue. My BT's are called the Maltese Falcons so it is a fluffy thing.

 

For the Red Wolves scouts I am working on a couple of ideas, I was thinking of putting green stuff in around their boot tops to look like fur and possibly around thier collar. Also I have seen some kit bashes where people used bare arms to give the scouts a more rugged look for space wolves. I have plenty of muscle arms from other kits that I can use but I didn't know if this was considered tacky or is in good taste?

 

The modeling end of the hobby is important to me. So your thoughts here are just as welcome as the ones on tactics. If you have a cool picture of your own units or would like to share a link to one you have found please include it.

 

Thanks for all of the replies so far.

[Stormshadow]

Take a look at Fritz scout tactics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxngsbzo0Q0

I use a five man squad with Power Fist, Melta in some form, missile and cloaks. The unit is really like an irritating wasp that ruins the picnic.

[Imperial Deceit]

Scouts also make great filler troop choices when your playing ether a low points game or a very specialized scenario, plus there is the possibility of using scout bikers but that is a different topic already being looked at here.