Scouts

[greatcrusade08]

Take a look at Fritz scout tactics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxngsbzo0Q0

I use a five man squad with Power Fist, Melta in some form, missile and cloaks. The unit is really like an irritating wasp that ruins the picnic.

 

fritz "tactica" is ok, a little thin on the ground..

the 5 man squad you listed with fist, combi-melta, missile and cloaks seems far too expensive and has no real direct use IMO.

 

ML and cloaks suggests long range warfare, fist and combi suggest up close in your face..

you really should pick a style and go for it IMO

 

my sig has many good links, some really indepth stuff

[Stormshadow]

the 5 man squad you listed with fist, combi-melta, missile and cloaks seems far too expensive and has no real direct use IMO.

 

Hmm… I find the unit rather cheap. The missile launcher isn’t a “must have” nor is a combi melta, but at least a melta bomb is always nice, and those 10 points you spend on the ML is ok in my book. If I leave the ML or PF at home I have already decided what tactic I will be playing before I even reach the table and my opponent will know as soon as he reads my army list.

 

The last time I used the scouts they had cloaks, 5x shotguns and a Power Fist. They outflanked and killed a whirlwind, but after that they hand no threat range to speak of.

 

You have a lot more experience with scouts than me and I will not contradict anything you say, but those of us only using one squad of scouts may need them to be more flexible in “some” circumstances :P

[greatcrusade08]

flexibility is great, dont get me wrong.. but scouts have alot of short comings.. in trying to make them flexible, your often wasting too many points upgrading them.

for example the 5 man unit of fist, combi, ML and cloaks comes in at 135 IIRC

10 ccw scouts with fist is 165.

 

both can outflank, the difference being that for almost the same cost you upgrade your 5 man harrassment squad to a larger unit capable of beating a tactcial squad, lootas, devestators (even a small unit of long fangs) in combat.

meltabombs are good, but if your running a fist on the outflank the only real advantage they give is against AV14, most of the time they arent moving slow enough to catch.

 

running single squads is always where the 'language barrier' applies when im discussing with others, i run lots of units, yet some people only run one or two.

i still think that points efficiency really matters when using scouts..

 

i guess bottom line is that with anything YMMV, but its my opinion that 'unit' flexibility should be sacrificed in order to increase unit effectiveness in a chosen role.. this is actually true for alot of things IMO, from assault units to dedictaed melta platforms.

[Stormshadow]

All very true. I will have to trey that 10 man squad out some time :P. Do you never miss the ML ore cloaks on them?

[greatcrusade08]

All very true. I will have to trey that 10 man squad out some time :). Do you never miss the ML ore cloaks on them?

 

not really, my aim with them is to get into combat as quickly as possible without taking too many casualties.

hanging around in cover doesnt really serve thier goals.

as for ML, since they are either on the move or in combat it wouldnt help either.

 

i save my ML for telions VoE :)

[DarkGuard]

IMO Tactical squads can afford to sacrifice a bit of focus for flexibility. They're generally more durable and can often do their focussed job better due to having a special and combi, then using the heavy for flexibility.

 

Scouts don't get these bonuses, especially in 5 man squads. If I'm running my Scouts in 5 man units, I want them to have a goal, stick to it, and not spend a point for anything else. The rest of my army can be flexible, I have units dedicated towards it. But a small, 80-100pt unit? That can be focussed and make sure it's working to maximum points efficiency.

[Stormshadow]

Well, we all tailor our play stile after our own meta ad experience :P. 5 scouts with one missile launcher is great for infiltrating or outflanking far away from the enemy. Sometimes your enemy has the same idea and deploys something to deny that flank. This is when I like to have a fist with the unit. So you pay 25pts for a fist that may not be doing anything all game. Outflanking to get into close combat with a PF when your opponent is unaware is also nice. But after you have killed that predator that your opponent forgot to move last turn, you may be out of things to smash. You may even have come in from the wrong flank with nothing to fight… In these cases I am always glad that I paid those 10pts for a ML.

 

This is just one way to use scouts though, my favorite way would have to be Telion scouts. And I will have to trey the 10 CC scouts (but will probably sneak in a ML ;) ).

[greatcrusade08]

tbh if you wanted tank stopping from a ccw scout squad youd be better off with a combi-melta along side the fist, it may onkly be one shot but its better BS and greater chance of damaging a vehicle.

it also compliments the unit better, destroy a rhino and charge the contents.

[Stormshadow]

Ther not necessarily tankhnunters, but with a good Power Fist you can knock the hole world on its ass ;)

[DarkGuard]

Just remember that the power fist is next to useless against AV14, which with infiltrate, Land Speeder Storm's etc, the Scouts can attack with ease at times. At those times melta weapons, like the combi-melta and meltabombs are invaluable. Scouts are the only unit I'd always put meltabombs on if I can, because they can be so useful.

[Stormshadow]

Yes it is always a good thing when you get a chance to blow up a Land Raider. :P

 

Even with the decked out squad of 135p you get your points back! Then who cares if you get a shot of with the ML afterwards :huh:

[Warprat]

I like to throw the odd bolter shotgun/CCW scout into a mix of shotguns or CCW to take double hits on. Really nice when you can group plasma hits in a mixed volley.

[greendestiny]

Warprat, I havn't played many games, will you please explain tactics, etc for your grouping?

[Warprat]

Warprat, I havn't played many games, will you please explain tactics, etc for your grouping?

 

 

Sure, I don't know how Sixth Edition is going to work, but I can explain 5th. Lets say your squad of Scouts is hit by 2 plasma shots, and 12 normal shots. You have a Scout squad with 1 sarge, 1 bolt pistol\CCW, 1 bolter, and 7 shotgun scouts.

 

You must place one die on each of your men, for ten of the shots. Then you must place a second die, for the remaining 4 shots. The defender gets to chose. Figures that are identical have saving throws rolled as a group. So there are four groups of rolls to be made...

 

You can put the 2 (auto kill, no saving throw allowed) plasma shots on the single bolter scout, 1 normal shot on the sarge, 1 normal shot on the pistol\CCW, and 10 shots on the seven shotgun scouts.

 

The bolter scout will be automatically killed by both shots, while the single figures will make one saving throw a piece. The seven shotgun scouts will have to make 10 saving throws as a group.

[Ran]

tbh if you wanted tank stopping from a ccw scout squad youd be better off with a combi-melta along side the fist, it may onkly be one shot but its better BS and greater chance of damaging a vehicle.

it also compliments the unit better, destroy a rhino and charge the contents.

This is exactly what I've found! Even with the PF, the combimelta still works out better than the combiflamer.

 

Following this I've also discarded my Shotgun ambitions for now; in practice the CCW/BPs just give me more attacks to work with.

[greatcrusade08]

Following this I've also discarded my Shotgun ambitions for now; in practice the CCW/BPs just give me more attacks to work with.

 

yup, the ccw scouts are more capable once in assault, i have mixed in shotguns with my ccws before, but they were always the frist removed during combat to keep my number of attacks up.

Eventually i just got to the point where i ran only ccw scouts

[Voloch]

5 scouts, 4xCCW, sarge w/PF & PW (maybe combi-flamer but often not), LS:S w/HF.

 

This unit is for hunting infantry and nothing more. I have found out that keeping it cheap and effective. All depending on who or what I face, the sarge will be equipped with PF or PW. This unit have a habit of not lasting that long so every attack is needed, including the extra attack from the PW on the sarge. Tau players cry when their Broadsides are locked in first round of combat and going down down down. The LS:S has flamer as want to ignore the BS3 and want a sure hit. The HF gives me that.

 

Else I fancy 5man, 4 snips, 1 HB, cloaks.

[greendestiny]

Thanks for the great explanation that is very easy to understand. I got all excited after reading this and put together the bodies of 20 scouts. Now I am just customizing them to either go with my BT (Maltese Falcons) army or my SW(Red Wolves) army.

 

SO FUN! I can't wait to test them out.

[greendestiny]

Sorry for the double post. I finally got my huge bits order and can start customizing my scout units. I have almost finished the Maltese Falcon scout/neophytes and am ready to start on the Red Wolves scouts.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

Following this I've also discarded my Shotgun ambitions for now; in practice the CCW/BPs just give me more attacks to work with.

 

yup, the ccw scouts are more capable once in assault, i have mixed in shotguns with my ccws before, but they were always the frist removed during combat to keep my number of attacks up.

Eventually i just got to the point where i ran only ccw scouts

 

...

 

Your tactic stated that have a 50/50 mix would be helpful if you run them on foot. For wound allocation would it not be better to have other models with different equipment??

[DarkGuard]

Wound allocation only really helps with more survivable and, no offence to GC08, more valuable models. Everyone knows how horrible it is to kill Ork Nob squads and Paladin units with different weapons, because due to toughness and/or armour and multiple wounds they're hard to kill and it keeps them going for longer. Command squads benefit from it to be able to dump low AP wounds onto the storm shield etc. But the most important thing is that even with different equipment for wound allocation it rarely impacts their effectiveness.

 

With Scouts though, they're a little fragile with only a 4+ save so wound allocation wouldn't do much to help, while adding boltguns and snipers into a combat unit will make the unit worst. In this case it's perhaps best to maximise damage output and try not to get shot at etc.

[greatcrusade08]

With Scouts though, they're a little fragile with only a 4+ save so wound allocation wouldn't do much to help, while adding boltguns and snipers into a combat unit will make the unit worst. In this case it's perhaps best to maximise damage output and try not to get shot at etc.

 

darkguard is on the right lines concering wound allocation with scouts, for the most part having a seperate wound allocation group can reduce close combat deaths (for power weapons), if only one or two deaths are saved then youve got something from them IMO.

i wouldnt put anything other than shotgun in with ccw scouts, becuase as darkguard rightly points out, your reducing thier combat effectiveness.

 

with shotguns, once your in a protracted combat, try to pull them off first rather than ccws, the extra attacks in subsequent turns really help