Black Templars vs Imperial Guard

[Varulv]

I have a really bad time trying to defeat my Imperial Guard friends. They are so darn hard to get at and they blow me away easily. It feels like this bad time never ends, and everytime I try to defeat the "lessers of the imperium" (yeah right) I get my ass kicked.

 

I have problems with their tanks, how should I encounter them properly? How do I defend myself against ordnance and the "lumbering behemoth" special rule?

 

The deepstriking stormtroopers (or in this case Karskin) are almost as horrifying as ordnance. With an AP of 3, and the option to use a Democharge and two Meltaguns it really has no problems whatsoever to kill off my marines, and with democharge, even my termies.

 

Please help, these are desperate times!

[Seneschal of the Seventh]

My best friend against Guard is a unit of 6 SB Termies with 2 Cyclones and Tank Hunters. Four relentless S9 shots puts the hurt on tanks, and with a 48" range, you can fire from beyond the range of the Guard's meaningful AP1/2 weapons. The best part is that you can take up to 5 such squads if you really feel like it (3 elites plus 2 command squads).

 

According to my copy of the Guard Codex, Storm Troopers cannot take Demo Charges. Veteran Squads with the Demolitions Doctrine can, but I can't see how you can legally get a unit with AP3 lasguns and a demo charge, only one or the other. Ask your buddy to check that. Storm Troopers really aren't that scary, as they're expensive as all get out and still need 5's to wound you with their hot-shots. Veterans can have 3 meltas and a demo charge, but they're T3 5+ and die to a stiff breeze.

 

My recommendation would be to load up on terminator based firepower, and develop a strict fire priority for them. Kill the long range killy stuff first, then the mid range, then the short range. Once the deep-strikers arrive, gun them down and keep moving. I field an all-foot BT list, and I find Guard are one of the eaiser enemies. What exactly have you been using againt them?

[Orlando_Furioso]

So long as you can reach their gunline, you can chew through them...i'd take some units that can deep strike like assault or termies and stuff what you can into drop pods too...devastators with lascannon and dreadnoughts with lascannons and missile launchers too...goodbye leman russes :-)

 

Aaron

[Varulv]

My best friend against Guard is a unit of 6 SB Termies with 2 Cyclones and Tank Hunters. Four relentless S9 shots puts the hurt on tanks, and with a 48" range, you can fire from beyond the range of the Guard's meaningful AP1/2 weapons. The best part is that you can take up to 5 such squads if you really feel like it (3 elites plus 2 command squads).

 

According to my copy of the Guard Codex, Storm Troopers cannot take Demo Charges. Veteran Squads with the Demolitions Doctrine can, but I can't see how you can legally get a unit with AP3 lasguns and a demo charge, only one or the other. Ask your buddy to check that. Storm Troopers really aren't that scary, as they're expensive as all get out and still need 5's to wound you with their hot-shots. Veterans can have 3 meltas and a demo charge, but they're T3 5+ and die to a stiff breeze.

 

My recommendation would be to load up on terminator based firepower, and develop a strict fire priority for them. Kill the long range killy stuff first, then the mid range, then the short range. Once the deep-strikers arrive, gun them down and keep moving. I field an all-foot BT list, and I find Guard are one of the eaiser enemies. What exactly have you been using againt them?

 

I might actually be mistaken here, and I recall that they were Veterans and not Stormtroopers and wasn't deepstriking, they used chimera. I mix the two things together a bit, but his stormtroopers deepstrikes anyways.

 

Interesting thoughts though.

 

I usually field 3 Crusader Squads, one is for the emp-champ (ccw, olt pistols), and one is shooters, and one is shooters (and also 5 neophytes in the last one). I usually use a Land Raider and a group of Assault terminators (5) and of course a drop pod Dreadnought with either Multi-Melta or Assualt Cannon and dnccw.

 

They it varies from Land Speeder tornados to predator tanks to assualt marines.

[Seneschal of the Seventh]

I would suggest dropping the LR and Assault Termies. The Guard really have no difficulty popping Raiders, and Assault Terminators are gross overkill. Use those points for 2 squads of Tank Hunting Termies with Cyclones. That will fix your Veteran/Demo Charge problem, as you can pop their Chimera easily. The rest of the list looks good, I prefer to let my termies do all the shooting, and let the Crusaders do the melee, but I've seen shooty Crusaders done well.

[Varulv]

I would suggest dropping the LR and Assault Termies. The Guard really have no difficulty popping Raiders, and Assault Terminators are gross overkill. Use those points for 2 squads of Tank Hunting Termies with Cyclones. That will fix your Veteran/Demo Charge problem, as you can pop their Chimera easily. The rest of the list looks good, I prefer to let my termies do all the shooting, and let the Crusaders do the melee, but I've seen shooty Crusaders done well.

 

I will try that and see what happens. I always thought that terminators were expensive and so on, but now when you say it, I only feel stupid! ^_^

[Lysere]

I can understand your problems with guard. While I play vanilla marines not BT there are a few points that have been made and some I would like to make that I've learned while playing guard.

Thankfully the guy I play does not have a lot of armor yet.

 

Against lists that use vets instead of infantry platoons most bolter fire will not be sufficient unless you have several squads firing or he doesn't take the grenadiers doctrine. (This seems to be the default due to the 4+ armor)

 

Only some of the Lemen Russ weapons are truly scary against marines. Take note of what they have and take out the ones that can do the most damage to your army. I was lucky and never got shot at by an executioner tank, those are truly scary marine killers.

 

And one that is truly important to remember (although it is obvious) just get into charge range and rip through their squads in CC. A squad with only a couple power weapons can take out most if not all of any vet or infantry squad in a single round. And dead infantry can't shoot.