so, jump pack squads

[DominicJ]

had a game tonight, me 2k v 2x1k, b/a b/a ultras.

 

Lost

but learnt alot

we played dawn of war and seize objectives with two objectives.

First mistake

I lost sight of the goal, and instead of taking his objective with my hammer, i wandered off to murder some scouts.

Second mistake,

i forgot to put my second tactical squad on the table, they were supposed to hold my objective.

 

Thats winning and drawing right there.

 

 

My army was roughly

 

reclusiarch

11 dc (one powerfist)

dreadnought

stormraven

 

two ten man jet pack squads with powerfist and flamer

 

two ten man tactical squads, one in a rhino

 

5 terminators

 

3 multimelta landspeeders.

 

 

 

 

The raven mob were god like

the assault squads need splitting, maybe one melta one flamer

 

 

assault squads do not work in close combat

[JamesI]

Assault Squads work fine in close combat, depending on what you do with them.

 

Do you expect 10 assault marines to be able to attack anything up close and win? They can't. Use their speed, pick their targets. Assault with 2 squads if you must to win.

 

Assault squads with priests for FNP and FC, chaplains, Astorath, or librarians for the reroll to hit, can work.

[shortysl]

Hmmm, Blood Angel Assault Squads don't work? I beg to differ; I have been on the receiving end of such squads for years and they are brutal when used correctly.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Agree with the others. The reason why your assault squads didn't work in CC is because your list wasn't really supporting them.

 

First of all: replace the flamer with 2 Meltaguns each. Flamers are handy against orks or nids, not so much against marines.

 

Better drop one Tactical squad(that one without a rhino) and add 2 Sanguinary Priests(at least one with JP). I find "stayin' home for objectives" unnecessary, actually. We are the fastest marine army out there, we don't stay at home camping. ;)

If it helps, place the objectives on your opponent's side of the table, so that when you go to work (= slaughter his troops) you have the chance to hold objectives in the later turns without leaving single squads exposed to fast counterattack units. That only works if you and your buddies play it like that (means that you can choose where to place your objectives rather than having fixed places for them).

 

Drop the Reclusiarch and one DC for Lemartes going with the Stormraven. And, while your at it, reconsider the size of that DC squad. Do you really need 11 guys of them along with a reclusiarch? Against almost everything, that's overkill. 7 or 8 will do absolutely fine and that leaves you some points to spend.

 

For HQ, you have a lot of choices. If you stay with the Reclusiarch and put him in the DC, your assault squads will remain assault squads, simple and a lot less effective than possible. Put that Reclusiarch into one of them and add Lemartes to the DC, and you have a win on both sides. And Lemartes is a bad :lol: .

 

Or maybe consider the Librarian for psychic defense and some really nice abilities to help your troops.

 

 

Regardless of what you do, you'll find that assault squads work very well in....assault. ;)

 

 

 

Snorri

[DominicJ]

i expected seven assault marines to charge, break and run down 10 tacticals.

 

Foolish, perhaps.

But that was the plan.

 

I'm going to try 5man squads as tank hunters, which bizarely, i really do lack.

They can always still pin devs or such in combat if i need too

 

 

The dc was too big for the battle, but pretty damned effective

22 bolters and reroll hit/wound charge, yummy.

 

It was just a case of capacity over sense, and of course model availability.

[awfulawful]

i expected seven assault marines to charge, break and run down 10 tacticals.

 

By "run down", do you mean catch in a sweeping advance? Because tactical marines cannot be killed that way.

[Xenith]

By "take the objective with my hammer" do you mean the death company? Because you cannot do that either.

 

Power armour is the reaspnb your assault squads wont kill the tacticals. you need to soften them up with shooting, then charge in with furious charge *and* unleash rage/chaplain rerolls.

 

You just need more practice with the army.

[DominicJ]

xenith

true, my dc cant claim, but they would have killed, and my missing tac squad could claim, and so win.

 

Anyway, i'm going to try 5x5 assault squads next week.

Will post a list

[SnorriSnorrison]

Anyway, i'm going to try 5x5 assault squads next week.

Will post a list

 

 

Are you going for jumpers? Then I'd suggest to take ten or go with dedicated transports there. 5 guys only get one special weapon and as jumpers are easily taken down by anti-infantry weapons if you're not careful. ^_^

10 men are able to be equipped with 2 special weapons and are much more resilient in combat, so you could actually try to get a 10 men tac squad. :D

 

 

Snorri

[DarthOvious]

assault squads do not work in close combat

 

Erm, yes they do. They work a lot better than Tacticals. Attach Priests for furious charge and feel no pain. You can even attach a Librarian with unleash rage for re-rolls to hit and shield for a 5+ cover save when approaching. This makes them epically more survivable and also do tons more damge in combat. Also make sure the Sarg has a powerfist. I usually run mine with two meltaguns as well but others may want flamers instead.

[Morollan]

assault squads do not work in close combat

 

Erm, yes they do. They work a lot better than Tacticals. Attach Priests for furious charge and feel no pain. You can even attach a Librarian with unleash rage for re-rolls to hit and shield for a 5+ cover save when approaching. This makes them epically more survivable and also do tons more damge in combat. Also make sure the Sarg has a powerfist. I usually run mine with two meltaguns as well but others may want flamers instead.

 

This ^^

 

There seems to be a tendency in 40k to discount any assault unit that is not a "dedicated cc unit" although quite what makes the list of such units I'm not really sure. Whilst it's true that there are some absolute turkeys out there (hi Mandrakes/Flayed Ones) I don't think we should so readily dismiss other units that merely require some support or better tactical use to make them effective.

[Midnightmare]

Properly supported, assault squads are excellent troops. Mobile, and they pack a decent punch. You can't expect miricles with them though, but you should always try to have at least a priest with them.

[DarthOvious]

Whilst it's true that there are some absolute turkeys out there (hi Mandrakes/Flayed Ones) I don't think we should so readily dismiss other units that merely require some support or better tactical use to make them effective.

 

I was trying to convince my friend that his flayed ones would be a lot better if he attached a character to them, like a Necron Lord or a Cryptek. He then informed me that Royal Court members couldn't be attached to them. I then told him to throw them in the bin. :D

[Morollan]

Whilst it's true that there are some absolute turkeys out there (hi Mandrakes/Flayed Ones) I don't think we should so readily dismiss other units that merely require some support or better tactical use to make them effective.

 

I was trying to convince my friend that his flayed ones would be a lot better if he attached a character to them, like a Necron Lord or a Cryptek. He then informed me that Royal Court members couldn't be attached to them. I then told him to throw them in the bin. :D

 

The Necron "Tactica" printed in White Dwarf was trying to convince us that many players would completely alter their battle plans in pure panic at the thought of being ambushed by a unit of Flayed Ones. Personally I'd just be delighted at the free Kill Point.

[DominicJ]

i was just expecting 200pts of assault troops to eat 200pts of shooty troops.

 

That was apparently silly of me, i've just done the numbers for 4xhb and they are pretty similar.

 

Oh well, for my purposes, assault squads are fast tacticals rather than cc uniys.

Not that tacticals cant hold their own in cc

[Morollan]

i was just expecting 200pts of assault troops to eat 200pts of shooty troops.

 

That was apparently silly of me, i've just done the numbers for 4xhb and they are pretty similar.

 

Oh well, for my purposes, assault squads are fast tacticals rather than cc uniys.

Not that tacticals cant hold their own in cc

 

Marine v marine will always become a war of attrition. T4 and 3+ means that it takes 12 attacks to kill 1 marine. Adding FC from a priest would obviously help on the charge and having FNP would decrease the damage you take but it is never going to be a fight that is over quickly barring freakish dice rolls.

[JamesI]

i was just expecting 200pts of assault troops to eat 200pts of shooty troops.

 

That was apparently silly of me, i've just done the numbers for 4xhb and they are pretty similar.

 

Oh well, for my purposes, assault squads are fast tacticals rather than cc uniys.

Not that tacticals cant hold their own in cc

 

Marine v marine will always become a war of attrition. T4 and 3+ means that it takes 12 attacks to kill 1 marine. Adding FC from a priest would obviously help on the charge and having FNP would decrease the damage you take but it is never going to be a fight that is over quickly barring freakish dice rolls.

 

This is part of the reason a good assault squad needs a powerfist. Ignore that toughness and armor.

[Xenith]

i was just expecting 200pts of assault troops to eat 200pts of shooty troops.

 

Well...if you think about it, 200pts of troops will be as effective as 200pts of troops. They would be a fair match.

 

You win games through unfair fights, where everything possible is worked in your favour.

 

10 assault marines will not kill 10 tacticals easily, but 10 assault marines with 2meltas, powerfist, priest with power weapon, librarian with unleash rage will walk through 20 tactical marines, one unit at a time.

 

2 melta shots on the way in leave 1 more dead. The priest and the libby get 4 rerolling to hit S5 power weapon attacks each at I5 on the charge. That should be ~4 dead tac marines right off the bat. Powerfist rerolling to hit with 3 attacks should see another 2 dead for 7 total. The 9 others now have to mop up 3 tactical marines for zero return casualties, and if they do not, even better, you wipe them in their own turn and avoid being shot.