Sternguard as a counter-attack unit?

[Stercus]

I currently run a fairly siege-minded fists successor list, consisting of tacs, devs, scouts with fire support from tfc and vindicator & a squad of hammers in a crusader and an iron dread because the model is nice. I'm looking to expand another 500pts, and I want a fairly rapid block of supplementary bodies to fill gaps and act as a mobile reserve. I've already built an assault squad with two flamers and pfist, but I'm wondering if a razorback mounted sternguard squad will work too.

Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences?

[Paulochromis]

what HQ do you run? Pedro's Inspiring Presence can make Sternguard a viable counter-attacking unit.

[Stercus]

I usually just run a regular captain. I prefer not to use the named characters. My current captain is equipped with artificer armour, storm shield, and either a relic blade or thunder hammer, depending on my mood.

[DarkGuard]

I'm guessing that counter-attacking here doesn't mean assault, but just attack, so therefore includes shooting. Therefore, IMO, they are one of the best counter-attack units in the Codex, because they are so powerful with their shooting. And in a Rhino they have an effective 26" threat range. In this role you want them with boltguns and some combis, maybe a heavy flamer.

 

I personally favour an 8 man unit with a few combi-meltas and a power fist, sometimes a heavy flamer, normally accompanied by a Librarian with Null Zone and Avenger/Gate. It gives me a flexible anti-infantry unit that can also handle tanks. It runs alongside my Honour Guard unit at the moment, giving me two elite units to help bolster my frontline and support each other. They do better with the counter-attack side of things than the Honour Guard as they can move the Rhino, get out and fire at full effect, which also makes them a better spearhead.

 

They're certainly a good counter-attacking unit and a fun unit to use, I'd recommend them.

 

Also, as you have a Captain have you considered a Command squad? A quad-plasma Command squad in particular is pretty good against elite units and MCs and doesn't cost too much.

[Stercus]

That's right. I wasn't proposing to use them as a primary assault unit, more as a mobile reserve. I was thinking of using a six man unit, with powerfist, two combimeltas and a heavy flamer, and then putting them in a basic razorback. Mobile and fairly versatile. I do take a command squad, but I usually equip them for assault.

[MordentHex]

If your running sternguard in largish numbers there is no reason not to take Pedro. With what you said about your captain and his gearing he is just about as much as Predro. With him in the center or your line any of your unites within 12" get his bonus, he is not to shabby at shooting and can drop an orbital bombardment. That seriously can make your gunline very hard to break even advance into them midfield with a lot less worry. Certain psychic powers wont affect you nearly as badly as others also because you would be stubborn. Ive slaughtered grey knights doing this myself. command squad? you could upgrade them to honourguard and it would be about the same points. That would give great counter assault punch. My humble two cents.

[DarkGuard]

Stercus, that would work, although I'd try to get some heavier firepower on the Razorback, otherwise you'd be better off with a Rhino for the top hatch and maybe trading in the power fist for another body, I personally don't add power fists until I've got an 8 strong unit for weight of fire.

 

MordantHex, Pedro isn't a must include if you run Sternguard in any sort of number. Of course he becomes more useful if you run three units of Sternguard, and is close to an auto-include, but he still isn't. Remember that Stubborn for Marines isn't that great, as they aren't a combat army. Combat Tactics in most cases is better as it can get you out of combat and allow you to shoot again. The question is whether your expensive shiny Sternguard unit will benefit from scoring or not, remember that that will just make them more of a target while potentially hindering the rest of your force. Of course, if you want to make the army as a whole more combat oriented then he's a good choice, as he allows one of the best units in the Codex to be better in general while making all units better in combat, but he isn't an auto-include in any list.

 

Also, I'd prefer that Captain to Pedro. I'm terrified of Pedro ending up in combat, he normally stays in a Rhino. For a 175pt model a 3+/4++ save is not much, and he can be too easily singled out by a fist or equivalent, and he's going last with a power fist, which isn't good with that save. Pedro is not a combat character, he's a buffing character with some good shooting. A 2+/3++ coupled with S6 I5 attacks on the other hand is a combat character. Fantastic save, brilliant speed and strength, I'd choose him every day if I wanted him in combat. If I wanted the buffs Pedro brings then I'd bring him.

[MordentHex]

MordantHex, Pedro isn't a must include if you run Sternguard in any sort of number. Of course he becomes more useful if you run three units of Sternguard, and is close to an auto-include, but he still isn't. Remember that Stubborn for Marines isn't that great, as they aren't a combat army. Combat Tactics in most cases is better as it can get you out of combat and allow you to shoot again. The question is whether your expensive shiny Sternguard unit will benefit from scoring or not, remember that that will just make them more of a target while potentially hindering the rest of your force. Of course, if you want to make the army as a whole more combat oriented then he's a good choice, as he allows one of the best units in the Codex to be better in general while making all units better in combat, but he isn't an auto-include in any list.

 

Also, I'd prefer that Captain to Pedro. I'm terrified of Pedro ending up in combat, he normally stays in a Rhino. For a 175pt model a 3+/4++ save is not much, and he can be too easily singled out by a fist or equivalent, and he's going last with a power fist, which isn't good with that save. Pedro is not a combat character, he's a buffing character with some good shooting. A 2+/3++ coupled with S6 I5 attacks on the other hand is a combat character. Fantastic save, brilliant speed and strength, I'd choose him every day if I wanted him in combat. If I wanted the buffs Pedro brings then I'd bring him.

 

Ok, fair enough, that does come down to own personal play preference. I just feel his bonus more than makes up for his other short comings. Stubborn is a really bad thing have sometimes. I find it worst in small point games. In larger games more of a bonus. It helps keep my scroing units on objectives without any fear of them running away.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Stubborn normally isn't a good idea, true. However, when your army is built around A2-base models (Sternguard) and you can fill out sergeants with power fists and then bump them all up to A3 with Pedro's bubble. . . now Stubborn isn't so bad. Consider Pedro and a full squad of Sternguard being charged. You've got a total of six power fist attacks, plus another 27 regular attacks. That is in no way crappy, and if somehow you lose that combat, you're going to stick around and get in another turn of licks in.

[Stercus]

Thanks for the input folks. I think I'll be sticking with my plain captain for now. I kind of like the model and it feels more fluffy to use him. Will definitely be building some sternguard now though. They seem to be the answer to my conundrum.

[DarkGuard]

They are certainly a fun unit to build and use. Shameless plug but feel free to check out my Sternguard Tactica if you want any ideas on how to build them, I'd recommend a power fist, combi-meltas and possibly a heavy flamer or two for the role you want. All round generalist and can take on many different unit types while being mobile and protected.

[Stercus]

Pretty much my chosen build. Six of them riding in a hvy bolter razorback for added weight of(cheap) fire, two combimeltas, power fist, hvy flamer. Now I need to do two things: 1) buy some cool bits to make them out of; 2) get really annoyed when incoming 6th Ed ruins all bets.