Stormtalon Gunship

[Stormshadow]

I’m planning to play a ST with Sky Hammer. I‘m going to ally it in with my GK army. I already have two Ravens in the list with TLLC and TLMM so I’d much rather take the a Sky Hammer on the ST for the range. I think the range triumphs both S8 and S9. It’s almost like having an unlimited supply of hunter killers. It comes down to style of play, but I rely on staying out of range to stay alive, It’s only AV 11 on a flyer base after all ;)

[Lord Falkor]

i understand about staying out of range in 5th ed it was the way to go, but in 6th ed if a ST stays in hover mode then its not got jink as it cant move in hover strike and they will hit you on their normal BS, now if you are zooming its a 6 for them to hit plus you get +5 cover save and as you can fire upto 4 weapons when zooming and a talon only has 2.

 

for me the staying out of range isnt as good as zooming

[Lucien Eilam]

Hover mode isn't part of my argument; I specified "in an interceptor role," meaning shooting down other Flyers. And having played with a Talon under the 5th Edition rules, I can tell you that when you're rolling seven dice (AC and Skyhammers), you'd be amazed at the number of misses you might get. It might just be my dice, but I was only hitting about half-and-half with its guns even with twin-linked on the assault cannon.

 

A twin-linked single shot weapon isn't going to deliver more hits than a non-twin-linked multiple shot weapon. If you're missing with 3 dice, you'll be missing with 1 and a re-roll just the same. And statistically, it must be your dice if you're only hitting 50% of the time. The only case for using it is the higher strength.

 

Valkyries and Stormravens have been king of the hill up to now, but it's a fair bet that every Codex from now on will have a flyer or two, and if Space Marines and Necrons have to make do with AV11, I think most will be AV10 or 11.

 

S7 is enough to glance the AV12 flyers to death and may penetrate. It's reliable against AV10-11, and can potentially deliver 3 penetrating hits against any flyer in the game, which the Lascannon can never do. It's the clear choice for a dedicated interceptor in an all-rounder list, in my opinion.

 

(Whether it's a wise investment as a dedicated interceptor is another question - mine all have TML.)

[DerekLee688]

With allies rules, expect to see AV:12 fliers a lot more in 6ed. Lascannons get +1 on the damage table(AP2) giving twice the chance to explode. Glancing a target to death is now HARDER because you can't stunlock, wreck, or explode anymore. Whatever you glance will be able to shoot back or continue to move forward to drop it's contents.

 

I think the Stormtalon with skyhammer is a good replacement for Rifleman dreads, but the S:7 missiles won't do any better than the S:7 flak missiles that all ML's will get to purchase. You'll of course have better range and access to BS:5.

[Nards08]

I just picked up this kit and I believe I'm going with the TML on mine. The skyhammer was a close second but the TML won due to versatility. You can't just look at the ST abilities for an interceptor because it is capable of so much more. With zoom you really don't have to worry as much about ground units knocking you out without huge volumes of fire. Against all other fliers you are still covered. AV12 is the best out there right now and even your AC can pen that due to rending. Pen hits are still great but just because you pen doesnt mean you are knocking anything out. You can glance a vehicle to a wreck though and that's where volume of fire comes back in. With AC and TML you have 6 shots (if in range of both) that have a decent chance of glancing or better. As most things are 3 hull points if you are lucky you could knock another flier out of the sky right there. Now switch over to ground targets. Once again AV12 is pretty decent but you still have a shot to damage AV14 with both weapons. AC can actually pen AV14 with a good rending role. Not alot of armour left on the table? Thats ok cause now you can shoot blast templates and AC shots at anything left that moves all while being hard to hit and getting a 5+ save if you want it. Versatility is key and really what makes SM great. The AC and TML combo fit the bill for the ST.

[Lucien Eilam]

flak missiles that all ML's will get to purchase.

 

I don't think there's any basis for assuming every missile launcher in the game will get access to the flakk upgrade. Right now nobody has it, and nobody knows how competitively it will be priced for those who do get it. You might have to pay a premium for that flexibility.

[Brother Evar]

Well I used my Storm talon in a 1500pt game against Necrons today. Here is how it went throughout the game-

 

- We played Crussade, dawn of war. rolled 3 objectives. 2 were the sabotaged ones and the middle one was skyfire nexus.

- I hover striked but rolled short on distance to see his warrior brick (Nightfighting + Imotek the Stormlord)

- Used solar pulse + Skyfire nexus and the talon was dead.

- lost the rockets (S7) because I hover striked, then hit me as normal because of skyfire nexus which killed it.

- Assault cannon is a pintle mount, so can 360 arc regardless of facing- very nice. Front weapons 180 arc (?)- still not sure on that one.

 

Lining up your assault cannon is not a problem, its the other weapons that are. You will probably need to do a large zoom move and miss shooting, then zoom 18 to shoot to get another angle for the other weapon in turns after you come in from reserves. Fliers move like this I think-

 

Pivot, then stright ahead.

 

I dont' think they can go left or right horozontaly facing foward, like <I>======<I>.

 

Reflection-

 

- Skyfire nexus as the centre objective is a real pain and you MUST contest/own it, otherwise your flyers will be shot down quickly.

- Necrons hate AP4 + SM hate nightfight ;) ;)

- Escort on Attack bikes (MM) or speeders is going to be devestating if you can get it set up.

- Got cockey because of hover strike. I should have just zoomed around and played it safe with the rockets, especially with night fight up and an enemy held skyfire nexus centre field.

 

Hope that gives another insight for people who use the talon. IMO I think it slotted in nicely as my ironclad replacement. I will definately keep it in the list and look foward to honing my skill with its use.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Unless I'm missing something, you flubbed up. Nightfighting is no longer rolling for distance to see a unit; it just grants cover saves to the target unit, and you can't shoot more than 36" away.

[Rage]

Quick question, when the Storm Talon goes into Hover Strike mode does it still count as flying? I ask since it can't count go into Hover mode and count as a Fast Skimmer.

 

If this is the case doesn't this make it very maneouverable and an easier to get strikes with all its weapon systems. Therefore maybe worth the cost.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Quick question, when the Storm Talon goes into Hover Strike mode does it still count as flying? I ask since it can't count go into Hover mode and count as a Fast Skimmer.

 

If this is the case doesn't this make it very maneouverable and an easier to get strikes with all its weapon systems. Therefore maybe worth the cost.

 

The Hover Strike rule specifically states that the Talon's unit type becomes "Skimmer" and that it cannot move except to pivot in place. So no, when Hover Striking, it's not a Flyer and it's not Zooming, so it can be shot at normally.

[HarvDent]

Goofy quick question, the only way to get its total rules and points cost is last month's White Dwarf, right? I hope my shop still has a copy...

[Lucien Eilam]

If you have an iPad, the digital Codex was updated to include it too.

[HarvDent]

I only have my iPhone... huh.

[Rage]

The Hover Strike rule specifically states that the Talon's unit type becomes "Skimmer" and that it cannot move except to pivot in place. So no, when Hover Striking, it's not a Flyer and it's not Zooming, so it can be shot at normally.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

This is where I'm having an issue with the ST, it's a good chunk of points but it doesn't seem to have the output required to be effective, or the agility. The lack of a proper hover mode seems a deal breaker. At least with that it could duck into cover or get a jink save. Hover strike just seems a recipe for disaster.

 

In comparison to the SR, for 50pts extra I get an awful lot more, armour wise, weapon wise, transport capacity wise and rules wise. Only problem with that is the additional expense of the HQ & troop choice that comes with it for SM.

 

Anybody been finding that they're good value?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Honestly, the Hove Strike mode is there for kicks and shiggles. It makes its money as a Zooming Flyer. Its armor is just too light for the threat it presents; here's a case in point.

 

I played mine this weekend against a 'Nid army. It came on Turn 4 (my rolls were poop!) with Skyhammers attached and proceeded to knock wounds off of a Tervigon. It did so again in Turn Five, moving the minimum 18" each time, and although he fired at it with Hive Guard, he couldn't hit it. In Turn Six, in order to secure victory for me, it went into Hover Strike, turned 180 degrees, and punched fire into a Tyrant and its Guards, killing its Tyrant Guards. It died that turn to Hive Guard fire that turn, but the damage it did handed me victory as my Ironcald smote the wounded Tervigon and a Razorback, the ragged remnant of a Tactical Squad, and my Thunderfire Cannon proceeded to kill the Tyrant threatening to charge them.

 

All things being equal, I wish it had Vector Dancer instead of Hover Strike since that, I think, would do a better job at conveying its aerial agility. Be that as it may, I recommend using Hover Strike not as it is intended -- that is, to turn the Talon into a heavy fire support platform -- but to instead to provide an immediate change in facing.

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't think even the Dark Eldar get Vector Dancer yet, so it would seem massively out of place on a Marine Flyer.

 

I haven't found the manoeuvrability to be a problem at all. The Flyer base has about the same footprint as a Rhino, and unless you've wedged it into a corner, a 90° pivot with 18-36" move is usually a huge swathe of the board. And you can always go Flat Out if you need to.

 

I have, on a couple of occasions, had to forgo shooting with the secondary weapon, but the assault cannon pod can traverse 360° and it has AV11 all round, so you can focus on where you want it to be next turn and still have something useful to do.

 

I haven't used Hover Strike to reset it once, and still haven't had to leave combat airspace. I have used it to mop up squad remnants in the last couple of turns when the board is fairly safe.

 

An unexpected bonus is that it's so compact that, unlike any other Flyer, it's just small enough to hide completely behind some of our larger ruins. It's very survivable - although given that the one time it got shot down it landed on his Company Command Squad and pretty much wiped them out, maybe I should take a few more risks with it.

 

Plan ahead, and accept the secondary weapon won't always get to fire, and it should do well. A second one will be the first thing I add at 2000 points.

[WarriorFish]

I recommend using Hover Strike not as it is intended -- that is, to turn the Talon into a heavy fire support platform -- but to instead to provide an immediate change in facing.

This was my thoughts on the matter too, but it was theoretical so nice to hear it from someone with some tabletop experience.

 

My Stormtalon will soon be exiting the Adeptus Mechanicus assembly line and into battle so I'm looking forward to putting this knowledge to practical use B)

[Captain Idaho]

This is a discussion about the tactical and strategic intricacies surrounding the Stormtalon Gunship, so let's keep it that way. I've done some pruning of off topic discussion already.

 

Thanks.

[Ryu no Ten]

I just got done watching a YouTube vid on the new roles and it was purity insightful. Also the Storm Raven is a flyer with hover. The new role states that if a flyer chooses to hover, it moves and acts like a fast skimmer. So the Storm Talon has three movement types and they are zoom, hove (skimmer mode), and it's hover rule with the +1 to BS and pinning. So I believe that the Storm Talon and Storm Raven are going to be vary versatile.

 

On the topic of zooming, flyers can fire up to four weapons when it moves 18"-36" and with the talons super sonic rule it can move an other 36" but not fire. ^_^

 

PS: here is the YouTube vid i watched, it also covers other vehicles.

[AdamR]

The Storm Talon doesn't have a regular hover mode.

[Muctar]

I second that AdamR. The Storm Talon only has its Hover Strike special rule. Which gives it the +1BS, and Pinning mentioned above, as well as the ability to change its facing without restriction. However, it must remain stationary to do so. That's most important difference between HS and Hover.

[Ryu no Ten]

Ouch that hurts. :yes: That also takes a lot of the storm talon's mobility/strategy away. Still if its only way move (not sit and spin) is to zoom, it can still be devastating. the only other person in my schools club that uses flyers is a blood angle army and I think he will only use it in a 1500+ pt game.

 

PS: I'll double check on the hover mode at my club meeting later today. That's when I can look at the rule book, the thing is still out of my price range.

[Muctar]

The Storm Talon is still a good flyer, especially if you have 2 or more, or some very scary ground units to take attention away from it. In the few games I've used the ST Hover Striking was useful since I kept the ST far enough away from anything that could easily blow it out of the sky, or only in range of enemy units that had things like hammernators bearing down on them.

[DarkGuard]

Ouch that hurts. ;) That also takes a lot of the storm talon's mobility/strategy away. Still if its only way move (not sit and spin) is to zoom, it can still be devastating. the only other person in my schools club that uses flyers is a blood angle army and I think he will only use it in a 1500+ pt game.

 

PS: I'll double check on the hover mode at my club meeting later today. That's when I can look at the rule book, the thing is still out of my price range.

 

You won't find it in the rulebook, but rather the FAQ for C:SM. Basically, the profile has to explicitly say if a flier has hover. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

[Ryu no Ten]

I know the 6th ed rule book says that storm talon is flyer and has hover; the storm raven is a flyer with hover and transport.

 

Ok, the talon is only a flyer. I still think it needs the hover designation like the raven. It looks like a helicopter for goodness sakes, plus its aerial assault is now useless. Supersonic may still be of use but I doubt that. thus all that's left is ceramite plating (mostly useless), Escort Craft (use full), and hover strike (use full, but I still rather have the hover type).