Stormtalon Gunship

[pyroknight]

I know the 6th ed rule book says that storm talon is flyer and has hover; the storm raven is a flyer with hover and transport.

 

StormTalon does NOT have hover. See BGB pg 411

[Ryu no Ten]

I realised that during my club meeting and fixed my previous post.

[AlexCrute]

I lean towards the TLLC, although each of the three weapon upgrades are serviceable. Heavy bolters dictate a role which makes the whole craft a bit superfluous in a C:SM list.

 

My reasoning:

• I see the Talon's job as Aircraft hunter first, then miscellaneous hard target hunter second (in terms of both priority and chronology)
  
• AP2 complements a Rend from the TLAC for both of these functions
  
• The AP2 and strength 9 make me feel better about tackling AV12-13 - especially since boosted damage table rolls help keep enemy big guns quiet. Let them keep their hull points an extra turn if it means they're firing snap shots! In light of the 5pts difference this aspect is the clincher for me
  
• 5pts difference is about right. Maybe trivial, maybe a game-winning meltabomb elsewhere in the army
  

 

Combined with a static AA asset (competently crewed of course) this Storm Talon config seems to cover that base and let the Adeptus Astartes get on with their jobs, rather than watching sky or dying in droves to Baleflamers and such.

[Shaggy12009]

I don't play c:sm, but I really want to use this model. Maybe it'll make it into a detachment some day. If I had one, it would defiantly use lascannons since av12 flyers scare me. Nothing worse than finally hitting and failing to penetrate. I want that raven dead, not wounded. The assualt cannon can fill in with the random rend, but it would be most effective against light armor. Again, both guns prevent bad rolling. Don't forget that a lascannon still has anti personnel uses too. Terminators, multi wound models without eternal warrior, and toughness 5+ models are tough to take down with a bolter making the talon a comparatively cheap answer.

[Ryu no Ten]

What I'm worried about now that I looked in to the AA weapons like the quad gun and the icarus lascannon and the fact that most of the flyers have, and I'm assume here, more then two weapons and AV 11 (I don't know what there hp are). The other Terran flyers are AV 12 or 13. thus I think the storm talon got the short end of the stick with the new rules. I'll still filed them, but with the base price of 130 pt (150-155 pt with upgrades) and if the opponent has a quad gun I'm doomed. This is were I'll want the storm raven at AV 13, HP 3, w/ hurricane bolters, lasconnons, four blood missiles, and multi-melta for only 230 pts. Now if I can distroy the quad gun and icarus lascannon that wold be an other story.

[AlexCrute]

You've got at least a turn to silence a quad-gun before your paper mache flyers turn up. Those quad guns are only cardboard themselves.

 

Or give the quad gun a more appealing target (not much comes readily to mind, but nonetheless).

 

Or slam a drop pod right on the quad gun, giving some cover in your chosen direction.

 

Or the Stormtalon may be deployed out of quad gun range. Icarus is more of a problem, but killing it early is still a solution. Also remember killing the firing model could be as good as a 4++ or 5++ save (depending what BS it had).

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's another reason why I bring multiple podding Ironclads. I can put the pods in front of the gun to interrupt its LOS as a back-up to dual heavy flamers not roasting enough enemies off of the gun model itself to prevent it shooting in the first place.

[Ryu no Ten]

here is my army list so far with out options. :)

HQ

Marneus Calgar

Librarian (my black reach caption)

??? (Found a terminator Marneus Calgar legs and I have extra bodies, arms, and heads{just the legs are terminator}. aka Bits HQ/Elite :) )

 

Troops

10 man Tactical Squad (black reach)

10 man Tactical Squad

 

Fast Attack

5 man Assault Squad

Storm Talon

Storm Talon

 

Elites

Terminator Squad (black reach)

Dreadnought (black reach)

 

Heavy Support

Predator

Predator

 

Other

6 space marine paint testers

 

Grand total is around 1500pt depending on upgrades.

Thus the plan is to send the talons, other reserves, and Heavy Support in and thin the herds while every buddy else goes to the objectives/favorable positions to kill stuff.

 

PS: the units with "(black reach)" next to the are from the Assault on Black Reach starter set.

[tvih]

Been thinking quite a bit about the Stormtalon. It's an odd bird. It's the only flyer I know that only has two hull points. I can't figure out why. It's also only AV11 as compared to the AV12 of Valkyries/Vendettas (or Heldrakes), thus even easier to kill. Yet it costs 130 points in its base configuration that frankly isn't great. If you can't kill the Quad Gun before your Stormtalon enters, it's pretty much dead. And at 150-155 points upgraded, an expensive wreck it makes. It's kinda funny, Astartes are supposed to get the good stuff fluff-wise, yet once more IG clearly gets the better vehicle :)

 

Anyway, as I like the Stormtalon model it'd be nice to use it if/when I play Codex marines, but it's hard to justify the cost, especially as if my flyer enters the table before the quad gun is dead and before the enemy flyer does, it's just flat-out dead. So I just don't know what to make of it. As allies for my BT a Stormtalon doesn't really make sense at least from a performance perspective, compared to just taking Vendettas (which you can also take 1-3 rather than just one) instead. And with HB sponsons a Vendetta performs anti-air, anti-infantry and anti-vehicle with equal ease while only costing 140 points. With IG I'd also get other cheap options to add. Like more anti-flyer in the form of a Hydra.

 

In short if nothing else I really hope they'll at least give it a third hull point at some point.

[PaganLinuxGeek]

Folks

 

I don't claim to be a master tactician, so I'm happy to be educated, but isn't the Lascannon upgrade the really obvious choice?

 

First off, it's cheaper. Not much, but it all helps. Secondly, for the points you are paying for a fairly fragile vehicle, do we not want this rocking up and wrecking something big and nasty?! Marines have tons of stuff to take out transports and medium armour. And when I drop this on the table, I want it to take out more than a bloody Rhino! Of the available options, the Lascannon just seems to me like it gives me the best chance to win my points back.

 

In terms of deployment, I'm really liking the idea of this turning up from reserve with some outflanking scouts. I see know issue with this in terms of the rules?

 

Like I said, happy for you good folk to show me I'm wrong :(

 

I was starting to wonder if I was the only guy taking LC with the talon... Granted I'm new but reading the profile and pondering a few moments during assembly it seemed the best option.

[Ryu no Ten]

I'm magnetizing my talons so i can use all of the weapons, but ya i think I'm going to use the LC a lot too.

[Ryu no Ten]

I just looked in the back of the 6th edition rules and found out that all of the flyer except for the Storm Talon have 3 HP, the Talon only has 2 HP. What was GW thinking? I mean the Necron Scythes have the same AV and BS as the Storm Talon but has 3 HP. Heck, the ork flyers have AV 10 and 3 HP!!!!! :cuss: . GW in my opinion really nerffed the Storm Talon for no good reason.

[War Angel]

Where does it say that?

[Ryu no Ten]

Start on pg 410/Reference and look at all of the vehicle with Fl type, Fl = flying. :)

[tvih]

Yup, like I said before, two hull points. I just don't get why, it's not so powerful in other ways that it needed to be nerfed down to 2 when everything else has 3.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Getting back to the preferred weapon loadout, I had a thought while working on assembling my second Talon today. The main argument really seems to go back and forth between TML and lascannons and it occurred to me that we have much cheaper ways of getting those (namely on Speeders). Since Speeders don't have a lot of the issues that Talons do, the question to me becomes, "Why take TMLs on a Talon at all? Why not just take them on Speeders for cheaper?"

 

The only things that a Talon on a Speeder is Skyfire and being hard to hit except by Skyfire. That second point can be argumentatively countered by saying the Speeder brings durability in numbers and built-in Jink saves, which leaves Skyfire. This in turn boils the question down to the relatively simple, "Is the TML a better gun for an interceptor than lascannons?"

 

My answer is no, since lascannons bring a higher strength and AP2 to give better chances of an outright kill, but I'd still like to know what the rest of the group thinks.

[DarkGuard]

I think that anti-vehicle wise, and perhaps anti-flyer, the lascannon just shades the TML. While HPs means weight of fire is good, quality is also good, and the lascannon is a good weapon against low AV units to ensure a kill.

 

However, the Stormtalon also brings you another angle of attack against ground targets, and often I feel those ground targets you'll attack will be infantry. In this case the TML is the better choice, as it gives you the choice of frag missiles which combo well with the assault cannon for mass clearance.

 

To be honest, I don't think there's any bad weapon option on the Stormtalon. The heavy bolters keep it cheap. The TL-LC makes it a tank/flyer killer. The TML gives versatility. The skyhammer is perhaps the worst of them all, but it has a lot of shots and range, and it isn't a bad option.

[Captain Idaho]

I agree except for the last point; there are poor weapons on he Stormtalon. The heavy bolters mean it will struggle to operate as an interceptor, which leads us to ask why bother taking get the thing if it can't provide anti air support?

 

The Sky Hammer missiles give good rate of fire but frankly at the price of a Typhoon Missile launcher it's a mystery why anyone would bother with them. They have reasonable fire rate themselves and higher strength, plus can switch to templates against infantry

[DarkGuard]

The heavy bolters are just cheap. It won't make it a great interceptor, but they'll make it a good ground attack craft. Of course, you'll need to then get your AA from elsewhere.

[UnkyHamHam]

My experience so far with my Talon has been disappointing. I built mine with the TML as I had thought, like many of you, that it was the best option. Though when it actually tries to shoot down those pesky Necron flyers, I really wish I had the extra strength and AP. It has "almost" killed a lot of things. Just barely not bringing down targets. I am thinking of taking it apart and rebuilding it with the TL-LC.

[dswanick]

My experience so far with my Talon has been disappointing. I built mine with the TML as I had thought, like many of you, that it was the best option. Though when it actually tries to shoot down those pesky Necron flyers, I really wish I had the extra strength and AP. It has "almost" killed a lot of things. Just barely not bringing down targets. I am thinking of taking it apart and rebuilding it with the TL-LC.

Magnets are your friend... :P

[Captain Idaho]

True it's just a pair of Heavy Bolter Landspeeders is cheaper and more offensive *shrugs*.

[UnkyHamHam]

Magnets are your friend... :)

 

Hahaha, I know. I didn't have any when I put it together. And I was in a rush to test it and paint the cockpit. Lesson Learned.

[DarkGuard]

True it's just a pair of Heavy Bolter Landspeeders is cheaper and more offensive *shrugs*.

 

But less durable if your opponent has no AA, or if you eliminate it early on.

[Ryu no Ten]

Magnets are your friend... :(

 

Hahaha, I know. I didn't have any when I put it together. And I was in a rush to test it and paint the cockpit. Lesson Learned.

 

Shoe goo works if you have no magnets, the goo(glue) hold strong but can be pulled of with ease and doesn't damage the model. It's also shock resistant. I used it on some slot cars and it holds like you wouldn't believe. Removing the glue from the bits is easy, all use have to do is rub it scene it's only rubber.