Stormtalon Gunship

[tvih]

Plain ol' blu-tack can work wonders in place of magnets as well. Doesn't work in all situations, but in many cases is the easier, cheaper and faster option by far.

[DarkGuard]

Or just jam them on, it's a near perfect fit, you don't need anything else. But this is not really tactics. :cuss

[UnkyHamHam]

Thank you all for the advice! I appreciate it!

 

As for the topic... Darkguard, I know you advocated the cheap HB variant. Do you really think that is worth taking. I mean without the Missiles or Lascannons, it can really only shoot infantry, and then you mine as well have bought something better. I for one only purchased a StormTalon because I needed to contend with Flyers, and without the CML or TLLC I don't feel like its worth taking?

[tvih]

As for the topic... Darkguard, I know you advocated the cheap HB variant. Do you really think that is worth taking. I mean without the Missiles or Lascannons, it can really only shoot infantry, and then you mine as well have bought something better. I for one only purchased a StormTalon because I needed to contend with Flyers, and without the CML or TLLC I don't feel like its worth taking?

I wouldn't take it for purely anti-infantry either. For that, I'd just take Speeders probably. While Talons are harder to hit, it's still quite brittle with its 2 HP - especially if enemy happens to have something that skyfires.

[DarkGuard]

Thank you all for the advice! I appreciate it!

 

As for the topic... Darkguard, I know you advocated the cheap HB variant. Do you really think that is worth taking. I mean without the Missiles or Lascannons, it can really only shoot infantry, and then you mine as well have bought something better. I for one only purchased a StormTalon because I needed to contend with Flyers, and without the CML or TLLC I don't feel like its worth taking?

 

I wouldn't, I'd try to get the TML or las cannon as they're a superior option. My point was simply that with the RoF it has, the standard Stormtalon is cheapish and good against anti-infantry, although you could use it against light vehicles.

[treadiculous]

Having read this (possibly the best current 6th ed review of the storm talon tacticae + loadout discussion) and many other discussions it still isn't clear what wargear to load onto the Talon!

 

I see strong arguments as follows:

 

(not in any particular order)

 

TL lascannon - Predominately anti flyer* role, though benefits anti tank well, the AP2 adds quite a bit to successful damage roles. Twin Linked but one shot, 5 point saving vs the missile options. Doesn't really compliment the Assault Cannon, even though Twin Linked rending helps the AC reach higher AV.

 

Skyhammer - Range is the main reason this gun is popular, and 3 shots is favorable giving it a more mixed target selection, though far less useful AP value. Has Skyfire which is only useful in the weird BS5 hover, pinning and pivot mode.

 

Typhoon - Versatility is the big winner here, decent range for most games, 2 harder hitting shots with decent AP for MEQ / MC's but not enough to effect damage rolls, AND 2 templates for infantry (which have a tiny chance vs light vehicles). Unfortunately Land-speeders offer this weapon for much less.

 

TL Bolters - Cheap, Twin Linked, Mid to long range, 3 shots, Cheap... but remember it can deal out a decent number of reliable glances to AV10, couple this with the maneuverability of the talon it becomes an interesting option.

 

*Anti Flyer is listed because the Talon provides the only skyfire option beyond the Aegis Defense Line (and the Hyperios systems offered by forgeworld), and since the largest threats in the air are AV12 the Lascannon is well equipped to handle this.

 

 

I'm personally thinking Heavy Bolters since I'm facing Orks primarily, and Guard as the next most common. Each of those have a lot of AV10 targets to offer, either as side / rear armour or in the form of dakkajets and buggies. The Bolters keep the cost down and can cut through their armoured infantry too. (meganobs are the exception).

 

Trouble is, if a Vendetta shows up its toast**, so there goes a decent load of points - would having skyhammer rounds help it survive?.. I'm not sure since the Vendetta will kill the Talon on its arrival (unless you have a tastier threat) in which case even with skyhammer rounds it won't get to fire them.

 

**The Saving Grace is the fact the Assault Cannon is 360 degree, if you zoom a decent distance early on (which should help provide those rear armour shots) and then skirt their table edge you might find the Vendetta has to fly past the Talon before it has a chance to shoot at it.. thus offering ts rear armour to the assault cannons.

 

Against StormRavens I'm not sure what the answer is since it has turret mounts.. hopefully it will be too focused on its transport mission to dedicate more than the PotMS shots at your Talon.

 

Final point, Bring 2 Talons if you bring any, though whether you field both down one flank, or one on each would be interesting to know.

 

Hope this helps with the decision making!

[DarkGuard]

Having read this (possibly the best current 6th ed review of the storm talon tacticae + loadout discussion) and many other discussions it still isn't clear what wargear to load onto the Talon!

 

Then we're doing our job right! If you're not sure but think there's been a good review, it means that all the options have been discussed equally well with a lot of balance.

 

However, the fact that most people seem to op for the TML, with some others going for the TL-LC, should let you know what the preferred weapon options are. I myself like the TML, for power and flexibility.

[dswanick]

Having read this (possibly the best current 6th ed review of the storm talon tacticae + loadout discussion) and many other discussions it still isn't clear what wargear to load onto the Talon!

 

Then we're doing our job right! If you're not sure but think there's been a good review, it means that all the options have been discussed equally well with a lot of balance.

 

However, the fact that most people seem to op for the TML, with some others going for the TL-LC, should let you know what the preferred weapon options are. I myself like the TML, for power and flexibility.

Agreed, and it really all comes down to your role for this unit.

Air superiority : TL Lascannon

Ground attack : Typhoon or Heavy Bolter

Wild Weasel : Skyhammer

[templargdt]

Having gotten a few games in with my two Storm Talons

I'm pretty happy with the lascannons. When you are killing tanks and other aircraft, it's pretty excellent. I have the assault cannon for anti-infantry and besides, with bolter armed troops I'm not hurting for anti-infantry.

[tvih]

I've used a single Storm Talon in two matches now, I believe. The first was with Skyhammers and overall a bit of a "meh", as it only really wounded a big fat demon (IIRC, or maybe not) and killed a few scouts, and glanced a Dreadnought.

 

Yesterday it did quite a bit better, at first only killing a few Guardsmen, but then coming back from ongoing reserves on turn 4 and killing a Leman Russ through its AV13 side armor - glance with assault cannon, glance and penetration with Typhoon missiles, if I'm not mistaken. Got quite lucky there! In turn 5 I suicidally went into hover mode in order to clear out troops from an objective (with quite a bit of help from my other units, but wouldn't have succeeded without the Talon), and luckily the match ended and it didn't get shot down.

 

Both times took only a single hull point loss luckily. A bit of a miracle in the second match, as after I blew up the Russ he basically shot at the Talon with his entire army, which even at that point had more than a few autocannons and such, even of the twin-linked variety. In total he must've rolled about 30 dice without a single 6. Now he knows how I feel playing against flyers without skyfire (his only skyfire was a Vendetta that my Quad Gun one-shotted with a penetration).

[Giga]

I've considered running stormtalons in pairs, with tl-lascannon option... But really can't justify their price, especially not with cheap quad guns and vendettas in every list. I even like the models a lot, but the rules are too crappy to make me dish out money on them. Unless you're running some weird 5+ flyer list (like, you ally with IG and get a couple stormtalons and a bunch of vendettas/flying MCs), or your opponent doesn't have skyfire, I can't see them being useful.

[PaganLinuxGeek]

I'm finding the tl-lc very useful and a good compliment to the tl-ac (rending). The tasking on my stormtalons is usually higher av, or enemy hq, targets first. In some ways it's like having two flying predators. I've yet to use the hover option though. Usually I just plan my moves a turn ahead so the cannons can get good usage. Having the pivot capability on the tl-ac is a plus. I guess it's all about tasking...

 

I know some like the missile launchers. my logic is I can get tml on a speeder for less points, and without the zoom flying restrictions. But again, it's about personal taste and tasking.

[Brother Sergeant Bob]

I run mine with the TL-Lascannon, as i use them as pure dog fighters. Nothing else will reliably punch thru Vendettas, Stormravens and HellTurkeys. With both weapons twin linked theres never a reason to go into hover strike, unless u dont want to fly off into ongoing reserve.

 

I think the price for them is fine, to me they are a av 11 platform for a TL LC and a TL-AC, and the same price as if u just took those guns on a pair of razorbacks. except u need 6's to hit this razorback.

 

I also take 2... if my opponent has a Aegis Quadgun, well then i have to take it out turn 1 or else my birds are dead.

[PaganLinuxGeek]

Good point about the quad-gun. I was unclear about how to take it out until I re-read the gun emplacements section in rulesbook. it's a T7 W2 SV3+ target.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I use a dropped Ironclad with two heavy flamers to suppress ADL flak guns. Put the pod in front of the gun to block its LOS, and pour templates into the models manning the gun. It's worked so far.

[PaganLinuxGeek]

I was just evaluating dreadnought drop pod options for this very thing. Being a new player I'm still learning what's best weapons usage.

My dreadnought options available:

4 Dreadnought chasis

3 @ Assault cannons (2 right and 1 left)

2 @ CCW claws (left arm)

1 @ Chainfist (left arm)

1 @ MM (right arm)

1 @ TL-LC (right arm)

1 @ ML (left arm)

 

Was thinking perhaps TL-LC on right arm, and chainfist on left...

Any thoughts?

[Giga]

I use a dropped Ironclad with two heavy flamers to suppress ADL flak guns. Put the pod in front of the gun to block its LOS, and pour templates into the models manning the gun. It's worked so far.

Do you run lots of low-armor fliers in your lists?

 

Because, otherwise, I'm not sure how good of an investment it is to spend 180 pts in a dread & a drop pod (not to mention two kill points) just to kill a cheap gun?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I use a dropped Ironclad with two heavy flamers to suppress ADL flak guns. Put the pod in front of the gun to block its LOS, and pour templates into the models manning the gun. It's worked so far.

Do you run lots of low-armor fliers in your lists?

 

Because, otherwise, I'm not sure how good of an investment it is to spend 180 pts in a dread & a drop pod (not to mention two kill points) just to kill a cheap gun?

 

That's not all they're used for, you know. That's their initial arrival mission so that my Storm Talon(s) don't have to worry about being Intercepted. The little buggers being AV11 and 2 HP makes them exceedingly fragile, especially compared to Valks/Vens, Ravens, and Drakes. But this isn't a thread about Ironclads.

[Giga]

It's a pretty good idea though.

 

Quad guns are one of the main reasons why I don't like the idea of running stormravens, 2 HP and AV11 makes it just too easy for the quad gun to take down a stormtalon per turn. By dropping an AV13 dread into enemy lines and roasting the dudes manning the quad gun, you could effectively make him unable to use it even if you do not hurt the gun itself. I'm thinking this might work cool in a vulkan or biker captain list too.

 

BTW, can dreadnoughts man the quadgun? It'd be totally funny if you could hold your ironclad in base contact with the enemy's quadgun, then when enemy fliers arrive you use his own interceptor fire to hurt them. :D

[Giga]

@ Deus ex Ferrum

 

You got me thinking about a list that might utilize a dread in this stormtalon-enabling way. I came up with two fun lists that just might make that work. I posted them on my blog, so check them out: http://giga40k.blogspot.com/2013/01/making-stormtalons-work.html :D

[dswanick]

Quad guns are one of the main reasons why I don't like the idea of running stormravens, 2 HP and AV11 makes it just too easy for the quad gun to take down a stormtalon per turn.

Actually, if you're running more than one Flyer then a Stormtalon is actually a decent Wild Weasel. Armed with a Skyhammer launcher, your putting out 3X 60" S7 shots with a BS5. By maneuvering the Stormtalon to stay out of range of the Quadgun, you can destroy it without it ever getting a return shot. And it's at least 30pts less expensive and more maneuverable than the Ironclad/Droppod option.

[PaganLinuxGeek]

I do run a pair of these... Would run three if I could move my bikes to troop slots...

[tvih]

BTW, can dreadnoughts man the quadgun? It'd be totally funny if you could hold your ironclad in base contact with the enemy's quadgun, then when enemy fliers arrive you use his own interceptor fire to hurt them.

Basically... it can. It only says that a model in base contact can use it. A dread is unarguably a model. Plus while it says "instead of his weapon" or something like that, a Dread is still a him :P Besides if one wants to hang on the "him" part, that'd prevent Sisters etc from using it altogether ;)

[PaganLinuxGeek]

Oh that would be so funny! I shot down your flyer with your own gun emplacement!

[Giga]

In a match I played, I actually managed to commandeer an opponent's guad gun and gets some shots off with it. Although that was in like turn 6 so it didn't really make a difference. xD