Chapter idea: Mix Space Wolves and Blood Angels

[greendestiny]

If you were making a chapter that had several elements of Blood Angels and Space Wolves how would you explain them? From a fluff perspective only please.

[Kierdale]

Which aspects are you thinking about?

The Wolves don't have any successor chapters, so you're planning one descendant from the Angels? Due to their various curses and geneseed 'issues' a chapter which is more -for want of a better word- feral, isn't too hard to imagine.

If you can give us some more info on what aspects you want to integrate that will help.

Also, which codex?

[Maj Tom]

I think if Sanguinius was played by Bill Nighy he would call it, "An abomination!"

[Blackrat]

I'm just about to post pics in few days of my assault squad which mixes pieces from both, as well as some from DA. Haven't thought much of a fluff explanation, but I just love the savage aspect of wolves mixed with the refinement of BA.

[Amalricus]

If you're looking for a fluff way to mix them up, i wouldn't go there, Space Wolves don't really mix up easily, they are too specific a legion to be close to "regular" space marine chapters. The blood angels on the other side are more like a generic chapter with an anger management issue, but i still can't see them become close to the wolves. If you are looking for a successor chapter combining the two geneseeds, the very core of the space wolves fluff indicates wolves won't have any viable successor chapters, after the failed founding of the "wolf brothers". I simply can't see someone crazy enough to try to combine two of the less stable geneseeds to create marines, it simply wouldn't happen in the boundaries of the imperium. It would be as a renegade chapter becoming loyal again, of a non-sister female chapter, doesn't happen, won't happen, just don't go there.

( This is just my opinion, you naturally do as you wish, but i wouldn't mix them up for the reasons stated above.)

By the way, the iconography doesn't match very well either, you would need to choose between the wings / feathers / blood drops or the bones / claws / fangs / pelts, a mix of both would look very sloppy.

 

 

If the aim is to put together an army list, with TWC and furioso dreads marching hand in claw towards the ennemy, well you would get a cheezy list ( fursio dreads, stormchickens, Long fangs, TWC, Grey hunters, ...), but since you are limited in the use of a single codex in non apoc games, you can't. I someone would challenge me into a game with a combined SW / BA list i'd just laugh and leave i guess, codici are supposed to have at least some sort of coherence, which i fear wouldn't be possible for that type of chapter.

 

Either way, i'm not sure it's a very good idea ( and if it were, i'm afraid more people would have looked into it.)

 

Edit: typos

[War Angel]

when making a new spacemarine chapter, they dont pick a few geneseed and try to splice them into something else. if they ever did something close to that it was during the currsed foundings, when all maner of crazy was likely to happen.

 

in general, trying to explain things that are happening on the table into fluff can be tricky, and often should be avoided (one example would be why youre marines seem to die after only one wound, when every one knows that marines fight on after loosing limbs)

 

if you wanted to make a blood angles chapter that uses space wolves iconagraphy, or if youre youre trying to play codex space wolves but what them to have blood angles iconagraphy, there are several much better ways to reach that goal then to just say "oh, they have booth genes", which to be honest, is kind of weak.

 

one such way would be to have a chapter thats a successor to the blood angles, who have developed an affinity for wolves. their homeworld is inhabited by these beasts, which are reveared as demi gods. the chapter has addapted to these belifes, and has been named the blood wolves. you could even find clever ways to substitue the black rage with wulfen, perhaps instead of beliveing that the marines have fallen to the rage, they see it as a gift from the emperor. these marines are then followed by squads of marines who are not afflicted.

 

with a little bit of creativity, you can effectivly rewrite codex space wolves (with out changing the game play of course) to sound like its a blood angles successor. which would be awesome. or you can just shurg and say "they have both genes?". my vote is for awesomeness.

 

edit: i wouldnt advise the chapter being a space wolf successor thats developed blood angle things... for one i couldnt imagin it sounding as cool, and for two, its pretty standard that the space wolves dont do successor chapters.

[Ace Debonair]

If you were making a chapter that had several elements of Blood Angels and Space Wolves how would you explain them? From a fluff perspective only please.

 

Cursed Founding BA successors would be my first pick. Have them recruit from a suitable death-world with feral tribes pitted against a murderously harsh environment, and voíla.

 

Find some positives and negatives (they'd be a cursed chapter, after all) to bring across from the 'Wolves, and happy days.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I can see this happening for a renegade faction- specifically, one founded by the Red Corsairs, who'd use ANY gene-seed they could get their hands on.

[Amalricus]

Just out of curiosity, do you have an actual gaming / modelling project behind thos question? Altough i really can't see the point of mixing BA and SW ( in terms of gaming, modelling or fluff) i'd like to know where you want to go with this project.

[Raven Angel]

Well there was all kind of experimentation in the 21ts founding and I can see some one tring to cross the wolf and BA Geanseed bacause while the canis helix is potent and unpredictable it's not actually broke like the BA's. Space Wolves are very tough and dispite appearances very selfcontroled and able to deal with the "animal within". I can see where someone might thinks this would stem the flaw in BA line. They are probably wrong but :)

 

As for mixing the parts I'd say wat you are looking for is a chapter that has a much greater conection to nature. Squads and companies might take totum beasts and represent this on there armor. They might have many rituals the revole around hunting worthy prey and other preadators and absorbing there strength and adding it to there own. The train to hone their minds as well and so study culture and art learning about potental foes from how they depict themselves, finding weaknesses in these additudes that the enemy might not even be aware of. They see the connections in life and in nature, how the weak feed the strong or the cunning and how action begets reaction and small builds on small to become large.

[Leonaides]

Consider that the Blood Angels deal with 'the animal within' on a daily basis and still it is actually fairly rare that any BA will fall to it. Consider that it takes SW's many years to fully come to terms with their wulfen-spirit (the time spent as Blood Claws)... Given max squad sizes of 15 and 10 (IIRC) for BC's and GH's, you could assume that 1/3 Space Wolves die before they can learn to stand against their rage. Then, another 1/2 will die before they manage to fully overcome it (GH to LF), and this doesnt even take into account those who fail their final test and fall to the wulfen beofre becoming marines...

[greendestiny]

Wow, thanks for all of the great replies. I am working on the fluff behind my Red Wolves. They are officially a codex chapter. They use the wolf as their symbol, but they paint their armor red and are from a planet called Bloodfall. Their is no "official" fluff on what founding they are from or what gene seed was used. In my mind they are the mixture of the WOLF+BLOOD = Space Wolves + Blood Angels. I haven't decided what codex to use but I am using SW and BA models with certain elements removed that identify them specifically with Russ, Fenris, or Sangunis.

 

In my fluff the mad bio-mages of the 21st founding tried to correct the problems of the Wolfen and the Black Rage by splicing the two gene seeds together. I have a big thing all written up on it but wanted to get your thoughts.

 

You are dead on with what I was thinking. I know the two gene seed thing is sort of week but I really needed help with working out some other ideas. I do still want them to be part of the cursed founding just because I like it. But rather than have them be just red SWs, I wanted to take on the more East European feel of the Transylvanian Werewolf. So this would have elements of Baroque artistry and sophistication from the BAs mixed with savage, feral, animalistic SWs. Mix that in with the relationship between Bram Stoker's vampires and wolves and you have what I was thinking of for the basis of my Red Wolves. If you have read the Space Wolf books from Black Library I kind of see them being more similar to Torin than to Haegr.

 

This is my second Space Marine army and I want it to be very different in look and feel from my first one, based on the Black Templars.

 

I haven't actually built any models yet for this army, I have been working on gathering bits and boxes for what I can see in my mind. So yes there will be some modeling element to this.

 

Again thanks for the replies so far they are really helping me get my mind around this. Any reasonable modeling ideas are also welcome. (I don't have the cash to buy Forge World stuff etc.) I am really big on making my own heros by converting/kit bashing etc. I am an okay painter but prefer raised icons to freehand or even transfers. As soon as I do a spell check on the fluff I have written I will post it up.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I would just have BA geneseed that recruits from a world like Fenris. Then you have Blood Angel Wolves.

 

Thats the simplest route and opens all sorts of possibilities imho

[Muras]

It is also possible to have the homeworld having been influenced by the wolves at some point (possibly liberated or defended at some point) and using their totems/beliefs and this carrying over to the chapter founded there as the humans worshipped them for their assistance. You don't necessarily need a genetic connection.