Gentlemanloser Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 OK, what role do you see the ST providing in a 'nilla SM army? they have limited resources Normal Marines do, sure. GK have near unlimited resources... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3070713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Seems like the StormTalon is the "StormRaven" for the Codex peeps, filling the gunship role by dumping the "transport" aspect. Which I like. Got the love attack helicopters! SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 OK, what role do you see the ST providing in a 'nilla SM army? they have limited resources Normal Marines do, sure. GK have near unlimited resources... Do they? That's why Grey Knights are frequently called upon to fight against enormous odds with just a few Battle Brothers and vehicles? They are stretched thin in their battle against Daemons; they can requisition any resource they require because of their ties with the Inquisition but that's not to say their personal resources are near limitless. Grey Knights win their battles with battle brothers, what use do they have for a gunship? Why not just ask for Predators or Whirlwinds? Because they don't fit with the Grey Knight style of warfare, that's why. I can't help but think that players who want all the things the other chapters get in their codices are playing as the wrong chapter in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I can't accept excusing away new units due to older sibling jealousy either... BA and GK get the SR. Nilla Marines new Dex (with the SR) isn't out yet, so here, they can have these new toys. Diddums. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I think making C:SM more different than the chapter specific books can be a good thing. People already complain that there are too many marine armies. The more different they are the better, IMHO. Now if only the Storm Raven was a nicer looking model I might actually build a few. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 GK have less need of it than other marine armies. Not that SW, BT or DA need it right now, but when sixth ed lands they'll all lack a flyer as it currently stands. GK have the Raven at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 GK have less need of it than other marine armies. Not that SW, BT or DA need it right now, but when sixth ed lands they'll all lack a flyer as it currently stands. GK have the Raven at least. The Raven is better to be honest, more flexible, slightly better armoured and can carry troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Really not fussed about this new addition. It's a speedy little turret but transport capacity is very valuable these days. Personally, I'd rather the FW Stormeagle was given a GK makeover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3071731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think it would make a cool addition to our armoury, but there are valid arguments as to why we wouldn't. (shrug) Meh, Ravens aren't even that good, so its not like it has much to compete with in FA. Plus we already have the PsyDread. On the flipside, countering? I know the first words out of everyone's mouth will be 'PsyDread', but it may not be that simple. This little gunchicken can hop on from Reserve and unleash both weapons into a vulnerable PsyDread in the backfield (provided the SM player gives it an Outflanking buddy, which is easy if they field Khan, or as simple as a cheap Scout unit even without him). So now he's in the backline, and his AV11 means 4's are required to pen with psycannons (3's are still good but I usually roll terrible for glances, YMMV). He's also going to absorb the shooting that could've wiped out a Rhino or Razorback. He can also choose to move 36" and get 4+ cover, and he's small enough for buildings or other tanks to grant cover if the enemy places him intelligently (whilst still being able to fire the Typhoon, just like a Speeder). Price-wise he's still not that much more than a PsyDread anyway, and by definition most of our infantry units will cost more, so the Talon trades pretty well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3074344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 OK, what role do you see the ST providing in a 'nilla SM army? they have limited resources Normal Marines do, sure. GK have near unlimited resources... Do they? That's why Grey Knights are frequently called upon to fight against enormous odds with just a few Battle Brothers and vehicles? They are stretched thin in their battle against Daemons; they can requisition any resource they require because of their ties with the Inquisition but that's not to say their personal resources are near limitless. Grey Knights win their battles with battle brothers, what use do they have for a gunship? Why not just ask for Predators or Whirlwinds? Because they don't fit with the Grey Knight style of warfare, that's why. I can't help but think that players who want all the things the other chapters get in their codices are playing as the wrong chapter in the first place. They have one duty to serve in an empire of countless planets. The problem isn't resources, it's man power. More accurately astartes power. Isn't it 1 in 1000 astartes are good enough to become GK? So it's those few GK's in that one ship that usually gets sent, supported by nearly unlimited resources. GK are limited by how many recruits make the cut, not by the resources needed to produce them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3074431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 but if that was an actual problem then they would be wiped out ages ago . they regularly suffer loses like the ones durning armaggedon I and are full functional . Maybe they just clone the aspirants or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3074443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Technically speaking, we don't have to change anything. We're already giving our infantry units psybolts, which means technically we can mess it up with normal stormbolters given enough shots. even a 6 man squad is good for a glance, and that's without any psycannons. Pair the psycannons with the improved stormbolters and that's multiple glances and a pen from even a small sized unit in a single shooting phase. No, we can't ignore it, but I don't think we need to be afraid of it either. That and the fact we can teleport our entire army into their backfield more than makes it even. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3074473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Another thing that dies easily to Riflemen or even S5 Storm Bolters. Waste of design team's efforts, should be two heavy bolters instead of twin-linked, otherwise a LS Typhoon remains superior for the points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3076585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 It won't die easily to psybolts, S5 barely scratches the paint on it (AV11 all sides). PsyDreads are broken, and given they are designed to suppress or kill light-medium armour we shouldn't be surprised they will murder this. I actually think if they just re-costed it to be about 30pts cheaper, or made the upgrades free, it would be perfect. As it is now, it's too pricey for what it does. I think the weapon systems and rules are fine, it just isn't going to trade effectively with a PsyDread or other such anti-transport units (Lootaz come to mind). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252967-stormtalon-will-gk-be-able-to-use-it/page/2/#findComment-3079778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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