Need help.

[Armond]

Hello all, the name is Armond and I am a lurker who wants to start the process of creating a DIY Chapter or two. I don't play 40k(but I may if I create something I like! :)

 

Anyway, I wanted to bounce some ideas off the board and see what type of feedback I can get. I have two ideas for Chapters. I will start with the first one, and it will probably be shot to pieces, but wanted to read some replies on what others would think.

 

First Idea

Ok, so this initial foray into a new Chapter(maybe not new Chapter, read on) is going to be bumpy and it involves Night Lords. :( I know, I know... Thanks a lot ADB for making so many people fan boys. Obviously a splinter(but loyal to the Imperium/but considered traitor due to lineage) off of the Legion itself. But that is as far as I have gotten. The reason? I wanted to see if one of my ideas was at all feasible/possible. Now, the thing is I would want them to splinter off before the actual kick-off of the Horus Heresy. So they would probably maintain their original name. The reason for the split? Why the betrayal of Horus of course. Obviously with Horus calling to his brothers(who would support him in betrayal) there would be perhaps hundreds to thousands of Space Marines in any one Legion who would not follow their Primarch on this path. That is the direction I want this to go. Perhaps a Company(a thousand strong if I recall in those times) caught wind somehow(have to work that out) of the imminent betrayal and fled.

 

This group of marines would probably be made up of mostly Terrans(they seem least likely to turn from the Emperor) mostly with a smattering of Nostramans. Of course they probably could not have escaped without conflict from within their own ranks and had to fight(and unfortunately kill their own brothers who were turning traitor).

 

Does that sound at least like a possible beginning or should it be scrapped? C&C of course is welcome.

 

 

Second Idea

 

Ok second idea will probably be more original and will probably garner more support. Who know I may end up doing both for the heck of it.

 

I want to create a Chapter based off of the Korean culture. Reason? My mother is Korean and I figure why not do something in honor of one of my halves.

 

I am not sure which Gene-Seed to pick, thinking Guilliman or The Khan(for obvious reasons). The one thing I am wondering is how do I go about creating a world that bears a similarity to Korea during the 1500s, squaring off against the Japanese? I know enough about the culture to realize where I want to head, but I don't know how to go about creating/discovering a world that would fit in the 40k universe.

 

Ok tear me apart. ;)

[Aqui]

Ok tear me apart. ;)

 

I leave the tearing asunder to others whom are much better at it, however....

 

 

Hello all, the name is Armond and I am a lurker who wants to start the process of creating a DIY Chapter or two. I don't play 40k(but I may if I create something I like! ;)

 

Anyway, I wanted to bounce some ideas off the board and see what type of feedback I can get. I have two ideas for Chapters. I will start with the first one, and it will probably be shot to pieces, but wanted to read some replies on what others would think.

 

First Idea

Ok, so this initial foray into a new Chapter(maybe not new Chapter, read on) is going to be bumpy and it involves Night Lords. :( I know, I know... Thanks a lot ADB for making so many people fan boys. Obviously a splinter(but loyal to the Imperium/but considered traitor due to lineage) off of the Legion itself. But that is as far as I have gotten. The reason? I wanted to see if one of my ideas was at all feasible/possible. Now, the thing is I would want them to splinter off before the actual kick-off of the Horus Heresy. So they would probably maintain their original name. The reason for the split? Why the betrayal of Horus of course. Obviously with Horus calling to his brothers(who would support him in betrayal) there would be perhaps hundreds to thousands of Space Marines in any one Legion who would not follow their Primarch on this path. That is the direction I want this to go. Perhaps a Company(a thousand strong if I recall in those times) caught wind somehow(have to work that out) of the imminent betrayal and fled.

 

This group of marines would probably be made up of mostly Terrans(they seem least likely to turn from the Emperor) mostly with a smattering of Nostramans. Of course they probably could not have escaped without conflict from within their own ranks and had to fight(and unfortunately kill their own brothers who were turning traitor).

 

Does that sound at least like a possible beginning or should it be scrapped? C&C of course is welcome.

 

I can see why you want to do this idea, but rather than me saying "NO! YOU ARE WRONG!1!" Let me ask you a few questions:

 

1 Why did they split from the Night Lords? Did they suspect something was not right within the Legion? Was their split because they supported the Emperor more than Kurse? Regardless, when did they split from them? Was it before or after Isstvan? Regardless of that, what was their opinion of those events (if they knew of them at all?)

 

2 How have they managed to stay alive and functioning into the 41st Millenium? (If possible avoid "Warp Storms" etc, as that has been done....a lot. Do the Traitor Night Lords hunt them? Do the Loyalists hunt the Traitors, in a similar way the Dark Angels hunt the Fallen? In either case, what do the Imperium think of them? Traitorous scum, or a possibly useful asset (albeit an expendable one?)

 

Answers to these questions (and possibly many others) will help you find out whether the premise is a good one, or a bad one.

 

 

Second Idea

 

Ok second idea will probably be more original and will probably garner more support. Who know I may end up doing both for the heck of it.

 

I want to create a Chapter based off of the Korean culture. Reason? My mother is Korean and I figure why not do something in honor of one of my halves.

 

I am not sure which Gene-Seed to pick, thinking Guilliman or The Khan(for obvious reasons). The one thing I am wondering is how do I go about creating a world that bears a similarity to Korea during the 1500s, squaring off against the Japanese? I know enough about the culture to realize where I want to head, but I don't know how to go about creating/discovering a world that would fit in the 40k universe.

 

I've always wanted to do a Japanese style Chapter, but I always found it hard to keep away from Ninja's and Samurai themes, so I've kept away. I don't know that much about Korean culture, or history. Without wanting to pry too much, is your heritage North or South? (as far as I know there is a significant difference, even if it's more recent)

 

In either case, it would be very interesting to see :)

 

If you are able to come up with a credible back story for your Loyalist Night Lords, then you've certainly got two good ideas.

 

Hopefully that helps (I've spent 6 hours in a black car, with NO air con, on one of the hottest days in the Uk this year so far, driving to London on the M1 [congestion!] and back to help a friend out, so my mind is a little fried at the moment, so I hope it makes sense!)

[Amalricus]

Concerning your first idea, from what i gathered here and there about the NL ( mainly through Black Library books), they were never imperium fanboys ( due to their primarchs own disrespect for the emperor). The influence of a primarch over its legion is very important, and there have been only a few cases where parts of the legion didn't follow their primarchs ( mainly the Fallen, which in turn share the love for secrecy of the Lion, and a fraction of the Sons of Horus / Luna wolves, Emperors Children, Death Guard and World Eaters, which were slaughtered at the purge of Istvaan III.) It's always complicated to use fluff about loyal fractions of traitor legions. They would not be able to survive 10.000 years of eternal war, whilst being shot at vieuw by imperial forces and most traitor / renegade / other creepy stuff wandering in the galaxy, not to mention the lack of supplies, servitors, ammunition and so on.

The Night Lords have a great fluff, and if you want to play them, just go and make a NL force ( you could use the C:SM, many chaos players use other codici)

 

Concerning the second idea, i think space marines and the C:SM are great to create your own handtaylored chapter, i really don't know anything about 15th century korea ( which i guess is a shame), but i feel you could always adapt korean lifestyle / philosophy / warfare to a space marine force.

Good luck either case!

[Armond]

Ok tear me apart. ;)

 

I leave the tearing asunder to others whom are much better at it, however....

 

 

Hello all, the name is Armond and I am a lurker who wants to start the process of creating a DIY Chapter or two. I don't play 40k(but I may if I create something I like! ^_^

 

Anyway, I wanted to bounce some ideas off the board and see what type of feedback I can get. I have two ideas for Chapters. I will start with the first one, and it will probably be shot to pieces, but wanted to read some replies on what others would think.

 

First Idea

Ok, so this initial foray into a new Chapter(maybe not new Chapter, read on) is going to be bumpy and it involves Night Lords. :unsure: I know, I know... Thanks a lot ADB for making so many people fan boys. Obviously a splinter(but loyal to the Imperium/but considered traitor due to lineage) off of the Legion itself. But that is as far as I have gotten. The reason? I wanted to see if one of my ideas was at all feasible/possible. Now, the thing is I would want them to splinter off before the actual kick-off of the Horus Heresy. So they would probably maintain their original name. The reason for the split? Why the betrayal of Horus of course. Obviously with Horus calling to his brothers(who would support him in betrayal) there would be perhaps hundreds to thousands of Space Marines in any one Legion who would not follow their Primarch on this path. That is the direction I want this to go. Perhaps a Company(a thousand strong if I recall in those times) caught wind somehow(have to work that out) of the imminent betrayal and fled.

 

This group of marines would probably be made up of mostly Terrans(they seem least likely to turn from the Emperor) mostly with a smattering of Nostramans. Of course they probably could not have escaped without conflict from within their own ranks and had to fight(and unfortunately kill their own brothers who were turning traitor).

 

Does that sound at least like a possible beginning or should it be scrapped? C&C of course is welcome.

 

I can see why you want to do this idea, but rather than me saying "NO! YOU ARE WRONG!1!" Let me ask you a few questions:

 

1 Why did they split from the Night Lords? Did they suspect something was not right within the Legion? Was their split because they supported the Emperor more than Kurse? Regardless, when did they split from them? Was it before or after Isstvan? Regardless of that, what was their opinion of those events (if they knew of them at all?)

 

 

 

2 How have they managed to stay alive and functioning into the 41st Millenium? (If possible avoid "Warp Storms" etc, as that has been done....a lot. Do the Traitor Night Lords hunt them? Do the Loyalists hunt the Traitors, in a similar way the Dark Angels hunt the Fallen? In either case, what do the Imperium think of them? Traitorous scum, or a possibly useful asset (albeit an expendable one?)

 

Answers to these questions (and possibly many others) will help you find out whether the premise is a good one, or a bad one.

 

I would the reason for the split would be that they objected to the idea of betraying the Emperor of Mankind. True, Curze is their Primarch, but they are all servants of the Emperor. To turn from him is, even at the behest of their Primarch was wrong. The Terrans I could definitely see being against, seeing as they had been serving the Emperor prior to the finding of Curze.

 

The split would have been during the initial actions on Isstvan. I would say the ship that these members were on decided to break away(fight their way out of the fleet sitting in orbit) and warp travelled to make way to Terra. Of course with the warp being so tumultuous during that time, they decelerated out of warp and the events had all transpired(including the Siege of Terra). Time passes differently between warp and real space. I figure they would appear somewhere near Terra and of course be hailed as traitors(even if they were loyal). Of course realizing the grim situation the Captain would want to explain himself, but probably wouldn't be given the opportunity and so fleeing would be the only option. More than likely a battle would ensue, all the while the loyal Night Lords trying to come to terms with their current standing.

 

They would still love the Imperium, but no doubt realize they could no longer have a place in it. Now they are "pirates" against the traitors and enemies of mankind. Seeking to sow confusion and terror in the ranks of the enemy while still steering clear of the loyalist forces. The Imperium hunts them, but it is half-hearted, after seeing the amount of "good" they do.

 

 

Second Idea

 

Ok second idea will probably be more original and will probably garner more support. Who know I may end up doing both for the heck of it.

 

I want to create a Chapter based off of the Korean culture. Reason? My mother is Korean and I figure why not do something in honor of one of my halves.

 

I am not sure which Gene-Seed to pick, thinking Guilliman or The Khan(for obvious reasons). The one thing I am wondering is how do I go about creating a world that bears a similarity to Korea during the 1500s, squaring off against the Japanese? I know enough about the culture to realize where I want to head, but I don't know how to go about creating/discovering a world that would fit in the 40k universe.

 

I've always wanted to do a Japanese style Chapter, but I always found it hard to keep away from Ninja's and Samurai themes, so I've kept away. I don't know that much about Korean culture, or history. Without wanting to pry too much, is your heritage North or South? (as far as I know there is a significant difference, even if it's more recent)

 

In either case, it would be very interesting to see ^_^

 

If you are able to come up with a credible back story for your Loyalist Night Lords, then you've certainly got two good ideas.

 

Hopefully that helps (I've spent 6 hours in a black car, with NO air con, on one of the hottest days in the Uk this year so far, driving to London on the M1 [congestion!] and back to help a friend out, so my mind is a little fried at the moment, so I hope it makes sense!)

 

Well Korea is not exactly known for anything like Samurai or Ninjas. I am of South Korean heritage, I doubt you would find too many North Koreans typing on a forum like this. When I come up with something more for the Korean based idea I will post. I have a newborn baby girl and a 2 year old and I have so little time to actually sit down and type, but plenty of time to daydream ;)

[War Angel]

I like the old fluff for night lords :unsure: apparently these books have changed that fluff other wise I would ask how you plan to deal with the fact that leading up to the HH, the night lords had begun to recruit criminals, who would likely have no love of the emperor, and would have sided with hours in an instant

[War Angel]

Can I also suggest that maybe you should focus on one chapter at a time? I saw you're other two and ignored them both as I didn't feel you would be very concentrated to either one.

 

I say o for the Korean one, I don't think thats been done before, and while there's probably not alot of experience on them in the forums, we can suggest things once we see what you go for on...

 

 

Edit ... Paper

[Armond]

Concerning your first idea, from what i gathered here and there about the NL ( mainly through Black Library books), they were never imperium fanboys ( due to their primarchs own disrespect for the emperor). The influence of a primarch over its legion is very important, and there have been only a few cases where parts of the legion didn't follow their primarchs ( mainly the Fallen, which in turn share the love for secrecy of the Lion, and a fraction of the Sons of Horus / Luna wolves, Emperors Children, Death Guard and World Eaters, which were slaughtered at the purge of Istvaan III.) It's always complicated to use fluff about loyal fractions of traitor legions. They would not be able to survive 10.000 years of eternal war, whilst being shot at vieuw by imperial forces and most traitor / renegade / other creepy stuff wandering in the galaxy, not to mention the lack of supplies, servitors, ammunition and so on.

The Night Lords have a great fluff, and if you want to play them, just go and make a NL force ( you could use the C:SM, many chaos players use other codici)

 

Concerning the second idea, i think space marines and the C:SM are great to create your own handtaylored chapter, i really don't know anything about 15th century korea ( which i guess is a shame), but i feel you could always adapt korean lifestyle / philosophy / warfare to a space marine force.

Good luck either case!

 

I understand the whole knowing what we know from what BL/GW puts out and it kind of puts some limitations on my first idea. I like to think that all the forces of Horus has to go through a purging of some type. I believe some of it was happening during the Massacre. So I don't doubt that there was a part of the Night Lords Legion who faced the same obstacle. That being that the majority of the Legion was going to follow the Primarch no matter the direction while a small minority(the Primarch and key leaders knowing who they were and find a way to purge the ranks of them) would follow the Emperor.

 

Of course surviving 10k years is not exactly easy but I would suppose it could be done to an extent. I want them to be loyal, and tragically so. I picture the freeing of slaves from traitor forces would make them a few allies and possibly lead to resupply and labor. Of course they would be bit tougher on their servants than the Space Marines still in the light of the Emperor, but no doubt that is a small price to pay to be out from under the heal of a Traitor Legion/Warband. Maybe I just want the idea to work so bad. I just figure I could expand their fluff a bit and show the side of the Night Lords which was denied due to the downward spiral they took.

 

I believe the Night Lords were loyal just as all the Traitor Legions were at one time and want to push that idea out there. Reading about Nathaniel Garro and his issues with the Death Guard leads me to believe that it was possible for more than just a handful to escape. I mean is it so inconceivable for a ship to have somehow escaped during the Massacre? Obviously they did not escape unbeknownst, but I think that would make the story more credible. This would be especially true if the escape occurred during the chaotic actions on Isstvan.

 

I will try to write out a more detailed idea when I get the full chance to.

 

Again, maybe I just want the idea to work so badly.

 

I will try to work up a more in depth idea for the Chapter I want to create based on Korea during the 1500s. Again, any ideas on how to go about finding a planet it would fit? Do I just create one and stick it somewhere on a starmap?

[Armond]

I like the old fluff for night lords :unsure: apparently these books have changed that fluff other wise I would ask how you plan to deal with the fact that leading up to the HH, the night lords had begun to recruit criminals, who would likely have no love of the emperor, and would have sided with hours in an instant

 

So there were never any Terrans right before the Heresy? I know they were recruiting criminals(and they would more than likely go the route of Horus) and whatnot, but if there were Terrans in the ranks would it be impossible to suggest that a fraction of them would have remained loyal to the Imperium of Mankind?

[Amalricus]

I second that, best to focus on one project at the time.

 

Concerning the NL warbands i can't really see where you're going, with a "loyal" NL fraction. My point is, if you like NL, play NL, if you don't like the chaos codex ( which i can very much understand), use C:SM or any other Marines codex ( i heard Blood Angels are commonly used for NL armies) at least until the nex chaos Dex comes out ( rumors state it will be out around august / september if i'm not mistaken). The fact your warband would be consisting of mainly terran NL considerably reduces the awesomeness of the warband. The edge of the NL is that they are real scum, dirty fighters who will use unconventional methods to rip you open and nail you alive to a transport, i can't see a terran renegade but still loyal NL do such a thing ... and that's a bit of a shame. The main issue with bastardised Chaos Legions is that their fluff is very far fetched most of the time. A good background story should be plain and simple, at least at the start.

 

So i'd say: If you like NL, play NL, they are one of the most interesting legions, with a brilliant iconography, awesome drama and very efficient tactics. If you want to stay on the loyal side, why not use C:SM and the Raven guard? they share a certain number of characteristics, and are not very common on a battlefield, or a DIY chapter ( with korean iconography?) which in a way or another uses stealth / scare tactics, without being linked with the NL. If you want to play a renegade warband which still fights for the imperium, i fear NL aren't the best warband for that. Of course nothing is impossible, and you can do and play whatever you want, but it still feels a bit off to me.

 

The thing is, it's very difficult to mix loyal and traitor marines, quite in the same way eldar and dark eldar do not mix up, once you're considered a traitor, there's no way out of it, you ARE a traitor, whatever the reasons.

 

Edit: to respond on the post just above: Nothing is impossible, but 1) During the HH there were no more terran specific compagnies, terran and nostraman marines fought together. 2) Nostraman born marines often got higher functions in the legion, so most of the officers would be nostraman. 3) Terran Night Lords used the same tactics as Nostraman ones ( at least i guess) so they wouldn't stay nice people very long, when marching around with capes of flayed skin, skulls rattling from their belts. Best is really to keep things simple.

[Armond]

Probably correct, the NL idea will hit the back burner until I can make more sense out of it. I think I will flesh out the Korean idea however. Thanks for the input!

[War Angel]

To answer you're question, at least to the best of my ability, as far as I've always known, before the HH, night hunter saw that his home world had fallen back into criminalism( as evident from his marines who where recruited from there) this was why he destroyed the planet, because they couldn't stay loyal to the emperor. He never wanted to do bad, which is why he let his assassin kill him.

 

That said, his marines were not nessisarily loyal to him, so much as they where loyal to crime.

 

As far as if there where any Terran officers remaining, leaders can also be influenced by those they command.

 

 

Besides the point though, the korean route has more opportunities for unique badassitude anyway. As far as what geneseed to use to represent them, any of the loyal geneseeds can be see to achieve any goal you might wish to have.

[InquisitorHayn]

Hello, Armond. First and foremost, welcome to the Liber. I look forward to seeing how your first endeavour plays out. Now, on to business.

 

I'll begin with the sidelined Night Lords pirate warband thingy. Many of the issues addressed regarded motive for secession from the Legion, survival thereafter, so on and so forth. Funny thing, though. As I read through your idea and your arguments for how it would be accomplished, the form of Sean Bean materialized before me from the still air, haloed in brazen light, with hand outstretched and upturned while touching fingers to thumb, and spake to me with fierce and knowing eyes that pierced my very soul, "One does not simply walk out of the Legion."

 

You're welcome, meme-junkies.

 

And there you have it. Escaping ten thousand genhanced warriors who are every bit as good, if not better, than you and your mates plus their entire fleet and accompanying crusaders and all the other Legions who have ships and warriors stationed around the local area...*exaggerated inhaling noise*... is not as easy as just killing a couple of guys and hijacking a lighter. If any of the splinter group survived, it would undoubtedly be no more than a handful. That is, if one could fit Space Marines into one's hand...but I digress. Your idea is not outside the realm of possibility. It's just incredibly unlikely.

 

As for the Korean plan, I say go for it. There are rare few well done Asian-themed Chapters. Personally, I blame Western fascination with ninja and samurai for that. If I may be so bold as to offer a suggestion, I would love to see a Chapter based on the ancient Korean Hwarang warriors. Perhaps you could use the Samguk Yusa, Samguk Sagi, and Sae Sok O-Gye as references (links included for possible starting points).

 

Cheers and good luck, mate.

[Armond]

I did think about the Hwarang, and it is not totally out of the picture.