Son of Rawl Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The Primarchs is being discussed quite heavily on these forums, but I havn't seen a topic for Nick Khyme's short 'Feat of Iron' being talked about, I can understand why as this story is a flashback to when Ferrus still has his head, but an interesting easter egg is teased at the end that does actually sound extremely interesting. "There is hope," he muttered. "In the empire of the Battle-King, he who would install an heir. Even if the Gorgon falls and fails to heed our warning, there is another who will listen, one who was lost." This is spoken by an Elder Farseer that is not Eldred who featured in Fulgrim so that primarch can be taken from this wishlist, can this be in reference to one of the missing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I really doubt that's what it is. BL is never going to do a story about the two missing legions - and every author from BL I've seen/read talking about it has said they'd be interested on one level, but are more of the view that any story would inevitably disappoint the vast majority of people who read it, and hence is better left alone. I think the Farseer is talking about Angron or less likely Lorgar. Sounds crazy, but I think by "had thought was lost" I think they mean "lost to Chaos". I think the Farseer has foreseen there will be some kind of crisis where Angron will be susceptible to (what we know will be an ultimately unsuccessful) attempt to turn him back away from Chaos. Reasons for this - we know Angron and Lorgar are off on some adventure to Ultramar, so they're in the "Battle-King's realm". The blurb for The Butcher's Nails mentions that Angron attracts the attention of "xenos raiders", ie the Eldar. So Angron will probably be clashing with Eldar in Ultramar - that's what the Farseer has seen. The other possibility is that the Farseer is referring to the "perpetuals" who were in Ultramar during Know No Fear - Grammaticus and Pius. The Eldar have probably seen their "thread" before - we know at least some Eldar know about Grammaticus. The one they thought lost might be Pius - they lost track of him, but see him as another tool to shape the outcome of the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3071502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Regarding Butcher's Nails: Well in Butcher's Nails Angron is attacked by Dark Eldar who are attempting to stop him becoming the Blood God's Son, so I don't think this bares a relation to the Farseer in Feat of Iron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3071748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Baal Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hey Mr.Havoc, I'm glad you opened a thread about this, I really liked that bit of the story, I think I even mentioned it in a previous thread. Perhaps another tit-bit in the mystery of the lost Primarchs. It wasn't just the Eldar using the words "one was lost" but also the passage about the statues. Firstly there was 20 not 18, as if to represent the 2 were still living. Secondly their faces were scratched but not obliterated. As if all records of them had been erased and they had been erased from memory, maybe that's why Ferrus didn't recognise them. If they had been killed I would have expected their statues to be toppled, beheaded or something similar. I was also wondering about why Ferrus would feel anger when he passed the hound. I was presuming this was Russ, was there any animosity between the two? Or perhaps animosity due to Russ carrying out 1 or 2 of those unenviable tasks for the Emperor. I think I agree with a little of what Aegnor says about BL. I like all the mystery, I'm not sure I want to know, sometimes the chase is better than the catch as they say. I think if discussed them in a way similar to how they did with the Legion of the Damned, I would be happy with that. Adding a little more weight to them, but leaving the full story untold. Carrying on from what Aegnor says it could be JG. I guess it obviously comes down to what the Eldar means by "lost". It could be the lost Primarchs, it could mean lost to Chaos, in which case am thinking maybe Omegon or it could mean "missing" like Vulkan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3071990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 wasnt ferrus joikingly called "the gorgon" by fulgrim in the book fulgrim? could the battle king be guilliman perhaps? my thoughts... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3072003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 "Gorgon" was Ferrus' official title. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3072036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I would say it was in reference to Guilliman.. The Ultrmarines have been referred to as the Warrior-Kings.. Battle?warrior same thing and Guilliman has been hinted to before as the heir to the Emperor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3072048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Empire of the Battle King has to be Guilliman and Ultramar, but apart from that I have no clue :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3072312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The hound was angron Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3073695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Guilliman's adoptive father was the Battle-King, was he not? Thus the Battle-King installing an heir is Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3073734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I'm a little confused by this as well. Obviously, it refers to Ultramar as that is the realm of the Guilliman the battle-king (page ref: 187). But who is this *he* who would install an heir? Is that referring to the Emperor? It doesn't quite sound right because the Emperor didn't name Guilliman as heir. *He* more likely makes sense to be Guilliman but does he install an heir? I'm unsure but I don't think it's all that important, just fancy Eldar speak. Anyway, regardless, the "one who was lost" obviously can only be either Lorgar or Angron as the Eldar are referring here to primarchs pretty much. For me it has to be Angron because of two reasons. Firstly, lets be honest, Lorgar has been far too corrupted since his journey into 'the eye' and has been reborn with a new fire and zeal for worshiping chaos and secondly, Angron hasn't really started worshipping Khorne yet, he is on the path certainly, but as Butcher's Nails tells us there was a chance to prevent his descent into chaos. Angron is aggressive and constantly pissed off sure, but he follows Horus' rebellion because Horus stokes the fires of what Angron wants to hear. He isn't inherently traitorous he just felt restrained and leashed by the Emperor and Horus allowed him off that leash. I reckon the Eldar feel (albeit a long shot) that there is a chance they can get Angron and the World Eaters back on side in some capacity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3073839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000AD Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 IMO its Angron.... bear in mind that the Eldar have been intrested in Angron since day 1...... they tried to kill him when he was just a child. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3074119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I do also love the description of Sanguinius' statue, well I think its him, the leathery winged statue wearing a mask indistinguishable from its face, showing its inhumanity. He is the classic vampire, noble and attractive on the outside but look at his soul and its an inhumane monster. Kind of makes you think that the BA may have been cursed before he died, but after the "king vampire" died his controlling influence went with him, awakening the inner beast that every BA had inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3074705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarias Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I do also love the description of Sanguinius' statue, well I think its him, the leathery winged statue wearing a mask indistinguishable from its face, showing its inhumanity. He is the classic vampire, noble and attractive on the outside but look at his soul and its an inhumane monster. Kind of makes you think that the BA may have been cursed before he died, but after the "king vampire" died his controlling influence went with him, awakening the inner beast that every BA had inside. I'm fairly certain the statue you're referring to is Curze's. Chiroptera are bats, after all. That, and the leather wings, point towards the Night Haunter and the Night Lords' insignia. Maybe Sanguinus is the bird of prey mentioned a paragraph down, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3074897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Maybe they are referring to Ollanius Pius (spelling), he was at Calth after all, and was "lost" in the sense he was just hanging out in the empire of the battle king, hiding and trying to start a new life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3074987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Perhaps the Eldar is referring to Alpharius. We know the Cabal contacts the Alpha Legion Maybe the farseer came from the Cabal and was trying to recruit the Gorgon. Then following the failure to do that, he turned his attention to the xx legion. Most likely this is just plain wrong, but who knows when we are talking the xx legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I do also love the description of Sanguinius' statue, well I think its him, the leathery winged statue wearing a mask indistinguishable from its face, showing its inhumanity. He is the classic vampire, noble and attractive on the outside but look at his soul and its an inhumane monster. Kind of makes you think that the BA may have been cursed before he died, but after the "king vampire" died his controlling influence went with him, awakening the inner beast that every BA had inside. I'm fairly certain the statue you're referring to is Curze's. Chiroptera are bats, after all. That, and the leather wings, point towards the Night Haunter and the Night Lords' insignia. Maybe Sanguinus is the bird of prey mentioned a paragraph down, though. Yeah I realised that after I posted but wasn't at a computer to rectify my idiocy! I thought after rereading the passage, it was a toss up between the eagle or the noble human with the wreath. Though the eagle could be Dorn or Sanguinius, abd the noble human with the wreath could be Dorn, Sanguinius or Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Baal Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I was a little like Ethrion, that passage did cause me to pause. When I first read it, I just took it as "king" meaning Emperor as it was only him that could install an heir. I completely forgot about UM's calling themselves that, so I think that could be a good shout. So the Eldar could have meant getting in touch with JG and getting him to talk to OP. It's tricky as the story is set quite a while before KNF, so perhaps someone who was already there before the WB arrive and the warp storms start. We also have the Lion saying he is on the way there and are Lorgar and Angron there in BN? I don't have that one yet. I have not read the story where the Eldar tried to kill Angron when he was a child either. Which book is that in? So yea it could be Angron, he does have the honour thing going for him but from what I have read so far he didn't seem a big fan of the Emperor. It seems to me that the Eldar and DE just want to put a bullet in him, which might be the kindest thing for him. I'll have to read more about him. I agree with you Azarias, I took that statue as Curze for the bat reference. I see what you mean Brother Captain Kezef, that hound probably is Angron emanating his anger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Pech Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Perhaps the Eldar is referring to Alpharius. We know the Cabal contacts the Alpha Legion Maybe the farseer came from the Cabal and was trying to recruit the Gorgon. Then following the failure to do that, he turned his attention to the xx legion. Most likely this is just plain wrong, but who knows when we are talking the xx legion? I think it´s Alpharius too - but it doesn´t matter for me, because "FEAT OF IRON" is the worst HH-Story so far... Nick Kyme loves "his" Salies and that´s no problem for me. But what IS a problem is, that he tries to tell me, that all the Iron Hands are the weaker, uglier, more incompetent and misguided brothers of his highly honoured Salamanders. - While Fulgrim exterminates a whole xenos-spezies in a couple of weeks, Ferrus Manus and his Iron Hands seem incapable of killing a bunch of Eldar on a backwater-world... :D - The only reason, Ferrus Manus survives the attack of the Fulgrim-thing ist, that he has his mighty dagger, a present from his beloved brother Vulkan. This dagger rescues him, when he is betrayed by his silver hands and Forgebreaker too... Yeah, of course... :jaw: - Their iron bodies are described as vulnerable and their iron will doomes them for all eternity. All attacks against the Eldar are moribund because of their beloved Bionics and Ferrus Manus is too narrow minded to listen to the warnings of the Eldar Farseers. - And in the last attack against the Eldar node the Iron Hands are rescued by normal humans (like the Ultramarines are rescued by normal humans in "The Fall Of Damnos" - seems, that Nick Kyme loves this "surprising" twist in his stories...). The mighty and unfailable Astartes are only still alive, due to the sacrifices of the despised and derided mortal soldiers. And after this, "not all flesh is weak" and the humans are honored as adopted sons of Meduas. :D Nick Kyme only needs 114 pages to tear down the whole Iron Hands-credo. All that characterizes the Iron Hands leeds them to death and damnation. Congratulation. Perhaps all Iron Hands should change their colours and legion symbols and become Salamanders 2.0.... Sorry, but the whole story is ridicolous... I wanted to read a glorious, passionate story about one of my favorite-legions and no "Why the Iron Hands are so crappy"-fable... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syagrius Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I do also love the description of Sanguinius' statue, well I think its him, the leathery winged statue wearing a mask indistinguishable from its face, showing its inhumanity. He is the classic vampire, noble and attractive on the outside but look at his soul and its an inhumane monster. Kind of makes you think that the BA may have been cursed before he died, but after the "king vampire" died his controlling influence went with him, awakening the inner beast that every BA had inside. I'm fairly certain the statue you're referring to is Curze's. Chiroptera are bats, after all. That, and the leather wings, point towards the Night Haunter and the Night Lords' insignia. Maybe Sanguinus is the bird of prey mentioned a paragraph down, though. Yeah I realised that after I posted but wasn't at a computer to rectify my idiocy! I thought after rereading the passage, it was a toss up between the eagle or the noble human with the wreath. Though the eagle could be Dorn or Sanguinius, abd the noble human with the wreath could be Dorn, Sanguinius or Guilliman. I think the statues thing is an interesting one. Some of them I thought I knew who they were, others I wasn't so sure about. I'd love to hear who/what other people think they represent etc. A man with snakes for hair- assumedly Ferrus himself, given that Gorgons of myth had snakes for hair and Ferrus is called the Gorgon. A man with two faces- Alpharius, for obvious reasons A thing with leathery wings and a bestial face- Konrad Curze, fits the iconography and his character (also the jokes about him being a Grimdark Batman) A snarling dog- Angron, as it seems to emanate anger. A heraldic knight with shield- Rogal Dorn A 'darker' knight with mace- Perturabo- the two knights are mentioned together as though opposites and that seemed to match Dorn and Perturabo for me. A lion in a monk's cowl- Lion El'Jonson, known as 'the Lion' and the attire isn't far from his. A bird of prey- Corax? Sanguinius? A drake- Vulkan, the imagery fits and he is nicknamed 'the Drake'. A noble human with laurel wreaths- Sanguinius? Guilliman? There are also two with damaged faces, which we can safely say are the two missing primarchs and one explicitly identified as Fulgrim. The story mentions that there are 20, though it doesn't describe them all. Some of the statues Ferrus feels like he recognises, whereas others he feels like he recognises but seem slightly twisted somehow to him. I may have missed some from my list above, as I don't have the book to hand as I type. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think the statues thing is an interesting one. Some of them I thought I knew who they were, others I wasn't so sure about. I'd love to hear who/what other people think they represent etc. A man with snakes for hair- assumedly Ferrus himself, given that Gorgons of myth had snakes for hair and Ferrus is called the Gorgon. A man with two faces- Alpharius, for obvious reasons A thing with leathery wings and a bestial face- Konrad Curze, fits the iconography and his character (also the jokes about him being a Grimdark Batman) A snarling dog- Angron, as it seems to emanate anger. A heraldic knight with shield- Rogal Dorn A 'darker' knight with mace- Perturabo- the two knights are mentioned together as though opposites and that seemed to match Dorn and Perturabo for me. A lion in a monk's cowl- Lion El'Jonson, known as 'the Lion' and the attire isn't far from his. A bird of prey- Corax? Sanguinius? A drake- Vulkan, the imagery fits and he is nicknamed 'the Drake'. A noble human with laurel wreaths- Sanguinius? Guilliman? There are also two with damaged faces, which we can safely say are the two missing primarchs and one explicitly identified as Fulgrim. The story mentions that there are 20, though it doesn't describe them all. Some of the statues Ferrus feels like he recognises, whereas others he feels like he recognises but seem slightly twisted somehow to him. I may have missed some from my list above, as I don't have the book to hand as I type. Medusa head: Ferrus Death: Mortarion 2 face: Alpha/Omegon Hoiund: Angron Drake: Vulkan Knight: Dorn Dark Knight: Perturabo Batface: Curze Horse: The Khan Bird of Prey: Could be Sanguinius due to the Eagle wings, could be Corax, but crows are scavengers not birds of prey. To be fair, it could even be Horus, being that Horus' image in egypt was a falcon headed god. Noble Human: Guilliman Lion Monk: Lionel Ritchie Scallop Face: Fulgrim I just read through the book, and I believe these are all that are desscribed, apart from the twin eagles, which I really want to know why what the significance is of the 2 eagles. Is the wise and austere on the futre emperor, whilst the noble and patrician one the preheresy emperor. The blind one representing the injuries inflicted by Horus, while the one with the good eye is the emperor pre heresy. Also the significance of the one soaring into the light, maybe the possibility of the emperor ascending, and the other descending into the darkness, with that representing his internment into quasi-life on the golden throne. I dont know, what does everyone think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Perhaps all Iron Hands should change their colours and legion symbols and become Salamanders 2.0.... Sorry, but the whole story is ridicolous... I wanted to read a glorious, passionate story about one of my favorite-legions and no "Why the Iron Hands are so crappy"-fable... Now imagine Kyme being put in charge of writing for the Iron Hands, and making that point in every one of his books. Welcome to my world. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3075409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 The noble with laurel wreath is Guilliman as that's a very roman classical style and the bird of prey is corax...definitely a raven description. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3076074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 the bird of prey is corax...definitely a raven description. Again, Corvids are not really considered birds of prey, they eat fruit, carrion, even fungus, and insects. The more I think about it the more it makes me think of Horus, a falcon. You say that it definitely describes a raven, literally it only says "a bird of prey," in reference to it. Now it could be Corax, it could be Horus, I'm just saying with what we know about ravens and falcons, if I was using one for hunting, I know who I'd expect to bring me home some dinner! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3076084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwrought Huw Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Nick Kyme only needs 114 pages to tear down the whole Iron Hands-credo. All that characterizes the Iron Hands leeds them to death and damnation. Congratulation. Perhaps all Iron Hands should change their colours and legion symbols and become Salamanders 2.0.... Sorry, but the whole story is ridicolous... I wanted to read a glorious, passionate story about one of my favorite-legions and no "Why the Iron Hands are so crappy"-fable... You've summed up all the reasons why unlike the other books from the Heresy Series, there is no way I'll be re-reading this one (added to that, I'm not really a fan of Kyme's writing style). The moment where Ferrus' hands (and forgebreaker) were useless was a particularly irritating moment in my opinion. After reading this, I'm not really looking forwards to next IH appearance in the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253128-feat-of-iron/#findComment-3076133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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