dealing with monstrous creatures

[Demoulius]

hello guys,

 

been on the receiving end of a chaos deamon player today. we played a 3000 points game. I was playing alongside a fellow marine player we both had 1500 pts he had 3000 points. without going into much details we faced off against a bloodthirster, great unclean one and 2 deamon princes. after their assaults (and those from packs of bloodcrushers) there wasent much left of our army to put up a fighting chance :D

 

how do you typicaly deal with monstrous creatures if you dont have acces to hammernators? obviously chaos deamons are abit different from other armies as they deep strike 2 feet away from you making our ussual tactic of just focusing fire on them abit...invalid to say the least ;)

 

lesson learned I guess but how do i avoid a simular stomping in the future? ;)

[Chengar Qordath]

Sternguard are always handy for dealing with MCs thanks to Hellfire rounds wounding on a 2+. They can be especially good against Daemon MCs, since a lot of daemons only have middling invulnerable saves and no armor.

[the jeske]

lesson learned I guess but how do i avoid a simular stomping in the future?

dont play two 1500 armies against 1 3000 one . how do MC die . Well you have mefiston , they die ultra fast to him . you are runing baals or baals and razorbacks so have tons of shoting and MC with 1-2 wounds left isnt so keen on hth anymore [because of the fists in your RAS] .

[Demoulius]

hmm I hadent considered sternguards :P thanks for that tip!

 

not every blood angel player uses Mephiston Jeske ;) and yea its somewhat common knowledge in our group that generally 2 groups of players with smallerp oint costs dont win out against 1 player with bigger point cost. doesent mean that the battles arent fun to play though B)

 

my buddy had some combat terminators but sadly it took them 4 turns before they got to hit anything (dont ask) so at that time it wasent enough to save our game B)

[DarkGuard]

Krak missiles. Especially handy against Nid MCs who don't have invulnerable saves and are very unlikely to get cover, maybe not so great against Daemon Princes and the like but still good.

 

Against most MCs they'll ignore armour and wound on a 2, and they're cheap so you can get a lot of them, they're long-range so you'll get a lot of shots, and they're multi-purpose as well, being good against MEQ, vehicles and GEQ, not bad.

 

Obviously by extension other anti-tank weapons aren't bad, lascannons and meltas in particular, autocannons are awful though against anything that isn't a Harpy.

 

And of course, plasma. Wound most on a 3+, but ignores armour and decent RoF, so you can expect lots of wounds.

 

I tend to have some of everything there in my lists, including the earlier mentioned Sternguard, and rarely am I troubled by MCs.

[Atlantic]

The humble missle launcher is your friend.

 

I currently run 12 of them. They never fail me.

 

I played a game against daemons a couple of weeks ago. My devastators probably killed 1000 points worth of daemons.

 

I have also had great luck charging Monstrous Creatures with 10 man assault squads and a sanguinary priest. The shooting before the charge tends to soften them up a bit for the sheer number of attacks to take care of the rest.

[Axagoras]

I would say sternguard or quad plas command squad and librarian with nullzone but since you are blood angels Mephiston or a honor guard with 4 plasma guns, 8 s7 ap 2 shots into anything will drop it.

[Hellios]

It varies from MC to MC but pretty much anything kills them... Mass bolter fire even works. Apart from that anything with S7+ and an AP3 or better is pretty good for killing the big guys and that is just sticking with normal stuff before you start taking Sternguard or whatever.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Don't forget, if you run a librarian you can use his force weapon to insta kill any model. It may not be the most effective way at dealing with MCs, but its always an option. Plasma is very good against MCs, but if you bring enough meltaguns as well they can be a death sentence and still threaten heavy vehicles and transports as well.

 

We can give you plenty of examples on how to slap MCs around effectively, but let's dissect this with a finer scalpel. What type of list do you run? I'm sure we can give more specific and detailed advice knowing a bit more about your play style and direction you want to go.

[Koremu]

A Blood Angel Assault Squad will almost always off a Carnifex (full squad vs max wounds) if it has Furious Charge... which let's face it it will have

[Imperial Deceit]

Off a carnifax yes, a Daemon prince? Less yes. I have waxed a number of them with my assault marines, but the squads were usually less then useful afterwards. Sternguard can nail down just about anything with their specialty ammo, so I agree there. Also if you are lucky enough to be playing BA the Death Company Dread with blood talons makes a mess of MC. (Unlimited attacks at str. 7). The Death company itself can also deal some hurt, as each one can take a thunderhammer or powerfist, plus they hit hard.

[DarkGuard]

The Daemon Prince is similar, maybe worse than a Carnifex. Except for its invulnerable save, which is circumvented with Null Zone (if you're Marines), or lots of attacks.

[Koremu]

Demon Princes are significantly more hardcore than a Carnifex against anything that relys on low volume high power attacks. Against the application of large volumes of dakka or choppa, they are still better than Carnifex, but not by that much compared to their points value.

[DarkGuard]

Daemon Princes are T5 right? Compared to a Carnifexen's T6? It depends a lot on what you give the DP.

[Ran]

The problem I'm having with winged DPs is that I simply don't have the mobility to really make the most of my Shooting Phases, while it hops from cover to cover until it reaches my lines. Sure I might have knocked 2 or 3 Wounds off the DP but it still has huge damage potential. Compared to that I find 'Fexes a lot easier to deal with. :)

[breng77]

Don't forget, if you run a librarian you can use his force weapon to insta kill any model. It may not be the most effective way at dealing with MCs, but its always an option. Plasma is very good against MCs, but if you bring enough meltaguns as well they can be a death sentence and still threaten heavy vehicles and transports as well.

 

All Daemons have eternal warrior so force weapons don't help. As to how you deal with them it really depends on your list. Mech BA should not really have trouble beating Daemons in general. Always move 12" and shoot, Daemons then need to hit you on 6s to do anything. Jump pack BA on the other hand are very bad against Daemons (it is almost an auto-loss) as most lists lack the range to not get in the assault with the Daemons, and many of their units flat out don't care about things like FNP or 3+ saves.

[Koremu]

Daemon Princes are T5 right? Compared to a Carnifexen's T6? It depends a lot on what you give the DP.

Higher Weaponskill and Initiative are factors too.

[DarkGuard]

Not when you're shooting them. :)

[Atlantic]

Which you ought to be.

 

Frankly if you are running the BA or SW codexes there is no reason to not have a minimum of 8 Missle Launchers. They are just too cheap and useful not to run.

 

 

With the SM book, I think it has pretty well been covered. Null Zone and plenty of Str 5 plus shooting.

[DarkGuard]

The only thing that's S5 and can be taken in quantities in the Marine Codex are heavy bolters. Considering they're often competing with the missile launcher for spots in squads I can't see Marines bringing lots of S5 to the table.

 

The be honest, anything that drops a tank will go a long way towards dropping a MC. Apply Null Zone when needed (like Daemon Prince), keep your distance, hammer them from range, and you should be fine. Cover is hard to get for an MC, remember it's 50% of the model.

[minigun762]

Daemon Princes are T5 right? Compared to a Carnifexen's T6? It depends a lot on what you give the DP.

 

Default its T5 but many players run with mark of nurgle bumping it up to T6.

[Stormshadow]

Another way of killing a MC is to assault it AND another weaker unit. Focus all attacks on the weaker unit and win the combat. The MC will then have to take that many Fearless saves ore take a reduced leadership test and risk being run over or escorted of the table edge. This happened to me once and after that I keep my Dread Knight far away from my henchmen.

[Demoulius]

some sound advice allround :cuss thanks guys.

 

some things though, its not hard for MC's to get cover when they got wings :) they just stay behind a terrain and jump out from it the next turn. staying more then 18 inch away from them is a challenge sometimes...

[Brother Ambroz]

That doesn't always work stormshadow. DKs aren't the best example of a MC as most (chaos ones at least) are very CC oriented. Once had a full strength squad of ogryns charge my BT. They all fail their wound or to hit. My thirster hits with all of his and the unit runs and gets elminated. My point there is most MCs can make up whatever wounds the other unit fails.