Ludovic's Index Astartes

[Dosjetka]

I just found this blurb in one of my old IA threads about the Praetors of Denzarr and I quite like it. I will most probably include it within this Chapter.

The Praetors fought valiantly to defend their domain during the bloody wars of the Age of Apostasy. Any strike force sent by Vandire to try and take over the sub-sector was met with the overwhelming force of the Praetors' powerful fleet. The ship's guns ripped apart the frail vessels of the Frateris Templar or boarded by the Astartes of the Chapter and gutted from the inside.

Due to these onslaughts, when Thor pushed for Terra, amassing followers in the millions, the Praetors joined the saint's forces. After the bloody push for Terra and the subsequent victory of Thor's forces over Vandire's on the holy planet, the Praetors withdrew their forces from Segmentum Solar and prepared themselves for the long voyage home. Even though the Praetors had suffered grevious losses, it was within their minds and souls that change was wrought.

The witnessing of Thor's rise and victory over corruption and damnation had a profound effect on a number of the Praetors. They saw him as an envoy of the Emperor, a saint, a reincarnation of a fraction of the Emperor's divine will. While the majority of the Chapter stayed loyal to the Chapter Cult that was passed down through the generations, a number of the Praetors had their beliefs shifted and were now part of the Imperial Cult.

However, the lessons learnt during the Age of Apostasy were never forgotten and even though they have very similar beliefs, the Chapter distances itself from the Ecclesiarchy and its minions for fear that they might become embroiled in another bout of widespread corruption.

Thoughts/opinions?

Ludovic

EDIT: And I have a colour scheme! (Thanks Ace!)

[Andrew J]

Nice color scheme!

[Dosjetka]

Nice color scheme!

Cheers Andrew :P

 

Hopefully, I'll have the second draft of my IA fully written by the end of the week!

 

Ludovic

[Octavulg]

The [...]

 

Name them, dammit.

 

...Not much personality here right now, IMO. And I think Combat Doctrine is overlong. What're you trying to accomplish?

[Dosjetka]

Name them, dammit.

Will do. Looking for a name now. Got any suggestions? Anyone?

 

...Not much personality here right now, IMO.

What could remedy that, in your opinion? A full Beliefs section?

 

And I think Combat Doctrine is overlong. What're you trying to accomplish?

I was just trying to show how they fight as it is slightly different to usual methods of combat (at least in my mind). Is it really that bad?

 

Ludovic

[Octavulg]

The "what're you trying to accomplish" is meant to apply to the whole IA, not the Combat Doctrine bit. Mea culpa. I can't really answer the other two questions without that one being answered.

 

What do you want this chapter to be?

[Dosjetka]

The "what're you trying to accomplish" is meant to apply to the whole IA, not the Combat Doctrine bit. Mea culpa. I can't really answer the other two questions without that one being answered.

 

What do you want this chapter to be?

Different would be the obvious answer. But different in the way it percieves things, which will be different from other Chapters (namely because they see the Emperor as a god, which puts them apart from 95% of known Chapters), but I can't seem to find the right ideas. What could make them different?

 

I think my main problem is I want to make them too humane and I don't know how to describe them as humane well enough. I may just scrap the idea entirely (even though the concept appeals to me).

 

Actually, Octavulg, I have a question for you: what kind of belief or other such quirk haven't you seen in a Chapter, but that you think would fit Astartes well? Or maybe a quirk that has already been taken but that you think hasn't been well explored/integrated? If I have one unique quirk to work with, I think I could focus more and get ideas down properly.

 

Cheers,

 

Ludovic

[Octavulg]

At this point, I've seen almost everything at least once (including plenty of humane and Emperor-worshipping chapters). At least if you're general enough about it.

 

The question of how they should be different is really up to you. The Stone Hearts are different from the Bronze Prophets, who are different than the Steel Dogs, who are different than the Ice Lords (who will eventually be different than the Marines Tenebric). All of them originated from concepts that involved being different, but which were much narrower than being different (banking pseudo-Celts, a cavern under a Fortress Monastery full of screaming loonie prophets, really unpleasant Marines who fought in marshes, and Dark Angels who resent Jonson's betrayal of Caliban).

 

You need something more than just "I want to be different" or even "I want them to be humane".

 

Why not approach it from the other direction? The Ice Lords got built in part off their color scheme - do the same thing. Pick the color scheme, pick a name that fits the color scheme, then try to come up with some ideas based off that name. Then add in being humane or worshipping the Emperor or whatever, and put a unique spin on it using the ideas the name/scheme/whatever inspired. Or come up with a symbol. Or leaf through various codices and other things until you find a chapter with no fluff, then expand upon it.

[Dosjetka]

Following your advice, I went through Lexicanum and came up with two Chapters with near-to-no fluff, cool colour schemes and names.

 

Rampagers

 

Storm Wings

 

Not sure which one to choose. With the Rampagers, I love the facial scarring and the name. Also, the name Mackan really sounds good (not too keen on the common colour scheme though). However, I love the Storm Wings colour scheme and they have a clean slate, so I can do what I want with them.

 

Thoughts?

 

Ludovic

[Aqui]

Following your advice, I went through Lexicanum and came up with two Chapters with near-to-no fluff, cool colour schemes and names.

 

Rampagers

 

Storm Wings

 

Not sure which one to choose. With the Rampagers, I love the facial scarring and the name. Also, the name Mackan really sounds good (not too keen on the common colour scheme though). However, I love the Storm Wings colour scheme and they have a clean slate, so I can do what I want with them.

 

Thoughts?

 

Ludovic

 

If it were me, I'd do the Storm Wings. Blank slate and Raven Guard successors aren't exactly common. Plenty of scope to put your stamp on them. I doubt GW will add anything else to their fluff either.

[Dosjetka]

If it were me, I'd do the Storm Wings. Blank slate and Raven Guard successors aren't exactly common. Plenty of scope to put your stamp on them. I doubt GW will add anything else to their fluff either.

Cheers Aquilanus. I was thinking the same. Plus, I can include the ritaul scarring anyway ;)

 

Ludovic

[Ace Debonair]

EDIT: And I have a colour scheme! (Thanks Ace!)

 

Hey, I remember that one. :D

 

Given that your ever-evolving signature lists these as the Praetors (and the colour scheme fits the name like a glove ;) ) I'd reccomend making them the Praetors of somewhere else.

 

I also can't help but notice you are picking out another chapter. Starting again, are we? ;)

 

Apologies if this sounds like me being a grumpy old stick-in-the-mud, but how can you ever going to finish the race if you just keep running on the spot? :(

 

EDIT:

Huh, double ninja'd.

That doesn't happen often!

[Octavulg]

Following your advice, I went through Lexicanum and came up with two Chapters with near-to-no fluff, cool colour schemes and names.

 

Way to ignore the bits about coming up with a name and scheme yourself, too! :lol: :P

 

Rampagers

 

Sure. The Rampagers are a cool chapter.

 

Storm Wings

 

Nickel armor means silver armor, which means idiots going, "Durr, are you playing GK lol?" Also, Raven Guard successors are a lot more common than you'd think.

 

Not sure which one to choose. With the Rampagers, I love the facial scarring and the name. Also, the name Mackan really sounds good (not too keen on the common colour scheme though). However, I love the Storm Wings colour scheme and they have a clean slate, so I can do what I want with them.

 

Mackan was an incident in one of the Black Crusades. Blood Angels got their asses kicked. Entertaining.

 

Thoughts?

 

Try some ideas of your own, first. That scheme of Ace's is sweet, and the Praetors of Somewhere could be neat, if nothing else.

 

Also, frankly, neither of those names offers that much to hang something off, thus leaving you in a pretty similar situation.

[Dosjetka]

Ace:

Given that your ever-evolving signature lists these as the Praetors (and the colour scheme fits the name like a glove ) I'd reccomend making them the Praetors of somewhere else.

I will find an appropriate name for them, don't worry ;)

 

I also can't help but notice you are picking out another chapter. Starting again, are we?

 

Apologies if this sounds like me being a grumpy old stick-in-the-mud, but how can you ever going to finish the race if you just keep running on the spot?

I just can't seem to decide upon one Chapter :unsure: It's pretty frustrating actually... So I thought I'd start everything again.

 

Octavulg:

Way to ignore the bits about coming up with a name and scheme yourself, too!

I admit it, I got a bit lazy...

 

Sure. The Rampagers are a cool chapter.

Indeed.

 

Nickel armor means silver armor, which means idiots going, "Durr, are you playing GK lol?" Also, Raven Guard successors are a lot more common than you'd think.

I'm not worried about the GK thing, but I hadn't realised that Raven Guard successors were common.

 

Mackan was an incident in one of the Black Crusades. Blood Angels got their asses kicked. Entertaining.

Sounds good :P

 

Try some ideas of your own, first. That scheme of Ace's is sweet, and the Praetors of Somewhere could be neat, if nothing else.

 

Also, frankly, neither of those names offers that much to hang something off, thus leaving you in a pretty similar situation.

OK, will do.

 

Cheers,

 

Ludovic

[Ace Debonair]

Apologies if this sounds like me being a grumpy old stick-in-the-mud, but how can you ever going to finish the race if you just keep running on the spot?

I just can't seem to decide upon one Chapter ;) It's pretty frustrating actually... So I thought I'd start everything again.

 

I did warn you about that. Where did I put my chainaxe? :P

 

My advice is to have a good think, then pick one idea you like. Grab tight hold of that idea, and run with it. Even if people C&C your chosen idea with the force of a falling warhound titan, hold on to your idea and keep adapting and moving forward. The Red Lords started out as 'This Chapter has more Whirlwinds', and all the Cromwell-era-horrible-obsessive-fanatic stuff sort of evolved as a result of being shouted at and threatened by other Liberites. :lol:

 

The moral of the story, in short, is: Persistence pays off!

Besides, once one chapter is done, that leaves plenty of room for more, and you can save your other ideas for them, right?

[Dosjetka]

You did indeed warn me ;)

My advice is to have a good think, then pick one idea you like. Grab tight hold of that idea, and run with it. Even if people C&C your chosen idea with the force of a falling warhound titan, hold on to your idea and keep adapting and moving forward.

OK, well I've come up with the following: I want a Chapter who kills pretty much anything that stands in their way to fulfill their goals/objectives, but I'd like them to have a reason to be like that and I want that reason to really make them seem like horrible bastards to the reader. Now, the questions is, what is that reason?

 

I'll think about it, but if anyone has any ideas, please don't hesitate to suggest them! :P

 

Ludovic

 

EDIT: I thought my posts were exempt of typos, but I guess I was too arrogant and so paid for the price. The crusade continues!

 

EDIT #2: Maybe they view humans as expendable? A bit common, but simple and easily explained. Or maybe they view every single human as tainted by sin and so if they die, it's not a problem, as they have been "redeemed"?

 

EDIT #3: The second idea sounds like Space Marine Redemptionists. To me that sounds both highly dangerous and very cool :lol: Plus, I think it makes them sound like real bastards. Thoughts/opinions?

[Ace Debonair]

My Axe is out of batteries. How embarassing. I'll have to petition the AdMech after this post.

OK, well I've come up with the following: I want a Chapter who kills pretty much anything that stands in their way to fulfill their goals/objectives, but I'd like them to have a reason to be like that and I want that reason to really make them seem like horrible bastards to the reader. Now, the questions is, what is that reason?

 

I'll think about it, but if anyone has any ideas, please don't hesitate to suggest them! :lol:

 

Ah, a good, solid goal. Here's some possible takes on the idea, just in case one of them fires up your imagination.

 

* Pure, overwhelming hatred of traitors/xenos?

* Utter conviction that the Emperor would have done exactly the same thing?

* A Salamander successor who tires of saving human-populated worlds only to see them turn against the Emperor?

* Perhaps an 'end justifies the means' mentality drawn from their homeworld or geneseed (Iron Hands, I'm looking at you here!)

* A Blood Angels descendant who identifies with their heritage as 'sons of a raging destroyer' and encourages the black rage and a 'kill 'em all' mindset?

 

It's quite an open-ended goal, so you can go almost any route with this.

There's got to be dozens of other ways I haven't even thought of!

 

EDIT #2: Maybe they view humans as expendable? A bit common, but simple and easily explained. Or maybe they view every single human as tainted by sin and so if they die, it's not a problem, as they have been "redeemed"?

 

That works too. ;)

[Dosjetka]

My Axe is out of batteries. How embarassing. I'll have to petition the AdMech after this post.

*loads up storm bolter*

 

Come at me, whelp ;)

 

* Pure, overwhelming hatred of traitors/xenos?

No.

 

* Utter conviction that the Emperor would have done exactly the same thing?

Not bad.

 

* A Salamander successor who tires of saving human-populated worlds only to see them turn against the Emperor?

Not bad, but no.

 

* Perhaps an 'end justifies the means' mentality drawn from their homeworld or geneseed (Iron Hands, I'm looking at you here!)

Sounds good and very mean :lol:

 

* A Blood Angels descendant who identifies with their heritage as 'sons of a raging destroyer' and encourages the black rage and a 'kill 'em all' mindset?

No.

 

It's quite an open-ended goal, so you can go almost any route with this.

True that. I'm pretty happy with the idea now :P

 

Cheers Ace! Invaluable as ever!

 

Ludovic

 

EDIT: How about something like this:

 

Basically, on their home world, there are some type of judges who go from tribe to tribe, dealing with problems that may arise. Anyone can be convicted of crimes and are often harshly punished. A lot of crimes are considered especially terrible and the criminals are executed. Pure and simple. Anyone can be convicted with little or no proof. However, it is not taken lightly as one who accuses another of an imaginary crime will probably find himself dangling from the end of a rope because he was charged shortly afterwards after someone else tipped him off...

 

So, very deadly legal system where anyone could get harshly punished or executed for crimes they didn't commit. The training cadre likes that and so sets up the Fortress-Monastery on the planet. Same view is taken up by the young Chapter and so whenever they hear any rumour of heresy or whatever, they come down on those concerned like the Hounds of Hell themselves...

 

It's pretty much a "kill or be killed" type world and Chapter.

 

Sound good?

 

EDIT #2: And here's a colour scheme idea, blending Ace's colour scheme above with some red, on the old painter.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/spez1295/colourscheme1.jpg

[Ace Debonair]

My Axe is out of batteries. How embarassing. I'll have to petition the AdMech after this post.

*loads up storm bolter*

 

Come at me, whelp ^_^

 

Whelp? Heh. You're very brave when you're armed with a stormbolter and facing a man with a broken chain-axe, aren't you...? :P

 

* Perhaps an 'end justifies the means' mentality drawn from their homeworld or geneseed (Iron Hands, I'm looking at you here!)

Sounds good and very mean ;)

 

At least one idea was in the ball park, so to speak. ;)

 

EDIT: How about something like this:

 

Basically, on their home world, there are some type of judges who go from tribe to tribe, dealing with problems that may arise. Anyone can be convicted of crimes and are often harshly punished. A lot of crimes are considered especially terrible and the criminals are executed. Pure and simple. Anyone can be convicted with little or no proof. However, it is not taken lightly as one who accuses another of an imaginary crime will probably find himself dangling from the end of a rope because he was charged shortly afterwards after someone else tipped him off...

 

So, very deadly legal system where anyone could get harshly punished or executed for crimes they didn't commit. The training cadre likes that and so sets up the Fortress-Monastery on the planet. Same view is taken up by the young Chapter and so whenever they hear any rumour of heresy or whatever, they come down on those concerned like the Hounds of Hell themselves...

 

It's pretty much a "kill or be killed" type world and Chapter.

 

Sound good?

 

It does sound good, but I'm not at all sure how a bunch of judges on the homeworld would result in an 'everything in the way must die' sort of attitude.

 

How about a dangerous predator on the homeworld that can regrow it's whole body from one severed limb? The response from the natives would be to kill the predators (and everything around them) with excessive force and then burn the remains and possibly anyone with the creature's blood on them out of superstition.

 

Admittedly I'm picturing that working for a feral and tribal society rather than a civilised one, but then I don't know what sort of world you're picturing yet. :lol:

[Ecritter]

Instead of that, how about this:

 

On the homeworld, a sect of crusaders had arisen. They made it their mission to completely rid the planet of crime .. by killing anyone that committed a crime. Brutal and efficient justice was their cause. They sought justice by the sword or gun. They believed that by killing all the criminals, crime would end. The Chapter had chosen the planet because of the brutal wars between crime-lords that would produce excellent recruits.

[Dosjetka]

Whelp? Heh. You're very brave when you're armed with a stormbolter and facing a man with a broken chain-axe, aren't you...? :P

Indeed I am, my good man :P

 

At least one idea was in the ball park, so to speak. :D

Two actually. That's rare :P

 

It does sound good, but I'm not at all sure how a bunch of judges on the homeworld would result in an 'everything in the way must die' sort of attitude.

 

How about a dangerous predator on the homeworld that can regrow it's whole body from one severed limb? The response from the natives would be to kill the predators (and everything around them) with excessive force and then burn the remains and possibly anyone with the creature's blood on them out of superstition.

 

Admittedly I'm picturing that working for a feral and tribal society rather than a civilised one, but then I don't know what sort of world you're picturing yet. :)

The everything in the way must die attitude would stem from their belief that everyone has sinned or is tainted or something-along-those-lines.

 

Not sure about the predator, as I'm a bit catious about using dangerous Xenos beasts on my home worlds. Especially since I'd have the Chapter exterminate them as soon as they knew about them :) So I'll probably try and make my idea work. But thanks for your input though, Ace :)

 

I

nstead of that, how about this:

 

On the homeworld, a sect of crusaders had arisen. They made it their mission to completely rid the planet of crime .. by killing anyone that committed a crime. Brutal and efficient justice was their cause. They sought justice by the sword or gun. They believed that by killing all the criminals, crime would end. The Chapter had chosen the planet because of the brutal wars between crime-lords that would produce excellent recruits.

Not bad. I'll probably go with Redemptionists though (who kind of replace those crusaders you mentioned). Cheers Ecritter :)

 

Ludovic

[Ecritter]

I like the color scheme too ... very nice.

 

For a name, how about (taking from orig writeup):

 

Stone Judges

Sword Judges

Steel Judges

 

Or something like that? I prefer Stone Judges, as it tells more about their character ... Cold and Hard as Stone.

[Octavulg]

OK, well I've come up with the following: I want a Chapter who kills pretty much anything that stands in their way to fulfill their goals/objectives, but I'd like them to have a reason to be like that and I want that reason to really make them seem like horrible bastards to the reader. Now, the questions is, what is that reason?

 

Horrible bastardy is a powerful and wonderful character for a chapter. I approve.

 

Could do a group of death-obsessed Marines. They believe that all humans and human-derived things are imperfect, and that death (and a merger with the spirit of the Emperor) is the route to perfection. They also believe one should kill as many of the Emperor's as possible first, of course.

 

Other horrible possibilities - they long ago decided that humanity wasn't to be trusted, and so they enslaved the entire population of their home world and strictly regimented their lives to produce the best recruits (breeding programs, forced labour, gladitorial programs, etc). Probably a lot of slave rebellions. No doubt they have to psychologically break some of the recruits to make 'em serve well, but that's OK.

 

So, very deadly legal system where anyone could get harshly punished or executed for crimes they didn't commit. The training cadre likes that and so sets up the Fortress-Monastery on the planet. Same view is taken up by the young Chapter and so whenever they hear any rumour of heresy or whatever, they come down on those concerned like the Hounds of Hell themselves...

 

Eh...Dunno. The judiciary doesn't generally make for scariness, IMO.

 

EDIT #2: And here's a colour scheme idea, blending Ace's colour scheme above with some red, on the old painter.

 

Nice.

[Dosjetka]

Horrible bastardy is a powerful and wonderful character for a chapter. I approve.

Good.

 

Could do a group of death-obsessed Marines. They believe that all humans and human-derived things are imperfect, and that death (and a merger with the spirit of the Emperor) is the route to perfection. They also believe one should kill as many of the Emperor's as possible first, of course.

 

Other horrible possibilities - they long ago decided that humanity wasn't to be trusted, and so they enslaved the entire population of their home world and strictly regimented their lives to produce the best recruits (breeding programs, forced labour, gladitorial programs, etc). Probably a lot of slave rebellions. No doubt they have to psychologically break some of the recruits to make 'em serve well, but that's OK.

You sir, are a genius. I think I'll go with the second one. Death-obsessed is nice, but it wouldn't really fit the current colour scheme I'd like. Beige and red could also actually represent the gladiator rings of their home world (beige = sand, red = human blood).

 

Eh...Dunno. The judiciary doesn't generally make for scariness, IMO.

Idea scrapped. :huh:

 

Nice.

I'm glad you approve.

 

Now, to work!

 

Ludovic

[Octavulg]

You sir, are a genius. I think I'll go with the second one. Death-obsessed is nice, but it wouldn't really fit the current colour scheme I'd like. Beige and red could also actually represent the gladiator rings of their home world (beige = sand, red = human blood).

 

True. True.

 

What chapter is the little GIF guy in your sig supposed to be, BTW?