Scout Bikers.... Yay or Nay?

[Yorkshire Dave]

Just been flicking through the Dex, and found these. I see they have a lowered armour save and sutch. Plus they can't take an Attack Bike, but they can out flank, they can have up to 3 Astartes Greand Launcher's, the Sergeant can take a Powerfist. They look like a nice little outflanking, rear armour hitter. But then again.... I haven't played Blood Angels since we got the Ward Dex. I was wondering if any of you guys would rate them at all?

 

Dave

[knife&fork]

I think that they look very useful.

 

The reason why I haven't ran them is cost of purchase (expensive single bike box + squads need to be large) and not liking how the model looks.

[Morticon]

I think in the greater scheme of things, these guys have been overlooked.

 

But, it's funny that you bring them up, because i'm considering bringing them to the national tournament coming up in a few months.

 

Here's my list/discussion:

Scout Biker List

 

 

I think more than their outflank ability, their ability to first turn charge units is what sells them for me!

 

I say try em out!

[Journeyman]

I have begun purchasing scout bikers to some fast punch to my scout army. I initially looked at LSS but got chatting at the LGS and well the idea of 3x grenade launchers and sgt with meltas plus a couple of twinlinked bolters roaring around was too good. Mind you the deciding factor was scout bike put more figures on the board, LSS use scouts from your troop choice.

[JMac]

I have begun purchasing scout bikers to some fast punch to my scout army. I initially looked at LSS but got chatting at the LGS and well the idea of 3x grenade launchers and sgt with meltas plus a couple of twinlinked bolters roaring around was too good. Mind you the deciding factor was scout bike put more figures on the board, LSS use scouts from your troop choice.

 

Not familiar with LSS... What is it?

 

I own some, got them for a real nice price on eBay (6 for $26 USD!!!), but have yet to paint them and only fielded them once as 3x Bikes, Sgt w/ combimelta. At the time, they didn't mesh well with my list. As my list evolves, I can see me taking them again.

 

I like your idea Mort, but I am surprised to see you drop 2 attack bike squads for 2 scout bikers.

 

Also, it is worth noting that they can take Locator Beacons which are useful for more than one thing. VanVets, DSing Termis, or even combo it with the Skies of Blood rule for the storm raven( Something I have wanted to do for a long time, but haven't got around to it.)

[Morticon]

I like your idea Mort, but I am surprised to see you drop 2 attack bike squads for 2 scout bikers.

 

So are all my opponents!!

 

My thinking JMac, is that with the prevalence of all the mech, and certain builds, when I get 1st turn, I really have the ability to put the hurt on a lot of armies, and that may be more beneficial than the attack bikes.

 

Will have to see how it goes. Essentially they play the same role though.

[Imperial Deceit]

I like to use the scout bikers to strategically place their homing beacon. Sense the BA focus heavily on deep striking it is invaluable to be able to hit exactly where you want ever time, especially if you are bold enough to drop something expensive like a Land Raider. (350+ points lost on a mishap? No thank you.)

[Yorkshire Dave]

Wow.... I've never seen anyone use them before and seeing them get some relativley possitive feedback is entising me to buy some. Seeing as I'm going to be running a fast army, I think they should mesh quite well. The reason I mentioned the outflanking thing was from back when I played Orks. I kept 5 Deathkopta's in reserve, They came on from behind a Leman Russ Battle Tank squadron in a 2000 point game. They popped all 3, wrecking 2 and making the third explode. Was thinking of the same sort of tactic with the bikes. But also the ability to charge on the 1st turn would be quite nice aswell. I'll test both Tactics and see which I prefer :)

 

Dave

[dadieau]

Several times while working up lists I have wanted to put in Scout Bikers. Each time I relook up the prices and search ebay (wish I could find 6 for $26) and settle for my Marine Bikes. They sound good to me and should be a good anti-hoard force.

[Deschenus Maximus]

They are awful. 4+ save makes them heavy bolter/autocannon fodder, BS 3 makes their already not particularly impressive grenade popguns unreliable, they lack the weight or quality of attacks to be a real CC threat and outflanking them without any reserve roll modifiers is a bad gamble. If you use a small squad for the locator beacon, your opponent will focus-fire them down on T1, doing the assault on turn 1 thing depends on you getting the first turn - another bad gamble.

 

To top it all off, they are expensive money-wise. Avoid at all cost.

[Morticon]

outflanking them without any reserve roll modifiers is a bad gamble.

 

 

Not sure I agree with this.

125 point squad is not going to take anything out of your army effectiveness if it's delayed a turn. May even be better. Its not like you'd be hinging your entire battle plan on 125 points or so coming in from reserve.

 

As for the 4+ save - until the bikes are ready to strike they should be moving at 18"for the 3++.

[Imperial Deceit]

They are awful. 4+ save makes them heavy bolter/autocannon fodder, BS 3 makes their already not particularly impressive grenade popguns unreliable, they lack the weight or quality of attacks to be a real CC threat and outflanking them without any reserve roll modifiers is a bad gamble. If you use a small squad for the locator beacon, your opponent will focus-fire them down on T1, doing the assault on turn 1 thing depends on you getting the first turn - another bad gamble.

 

That is assuming you are foolish enough to hinge your entire strategy around your scout bikers. I always take multiple locator beacons, and assuming my opponent actually realizes/remembers this detail (a surprising amount don't even look at your army list) and decides that in a high points game that my little squad of bikers must die at all costs, then they serve as a cheap fire magnet allowing other more dangerous units to go unscathed. The grenade launcher is best used with the blast template so their BS of 3 doesn't really affect that much. (Of course if you scoff at a BS of 3 you have been playing a marine army to much), and assaulting turn one can be done weather or not you actually go first, you just have to adjust your deployment accordingly, and even though they are not the best assault units by a long shot they can easily tie up high value targets until something better can deal with them. Finally using their turbo boost you get a cover save to deal with those pesky autocannons. (And again, if you scoff at a 4+ armour save, you have been playing a marine army to much) Plus there are plenty of weapons that make a mockery of 3+ armour saves.

 

They aren't a powerhouse, they aren't a game winner, but with clever use they can be a force multiplier and go a long way to augmenting your other units.

[Stormshadow]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :).

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. :lol:

[JMac]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :P.

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. ;)

Cool idea! I like it a lot.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Not sure I agree with this.

125 point squad is not going to take anything out of your army effectiveness if it's delayed a turn.

 

Depends at what points level you are playing. And delayed a turn isn't too bad, but it could be delayed 2, 3 even 4 turns. That's why I say it's a bad gamble.

 

As for the 4+ save - until the bikes are ready to strike they should be moving at 18"for the 3++.

 

Sooner or later they have to stop, at which point they get back to their 4+.

 

That is assuming you are foolish enough to hinge your entire strategy around your scout bikers.

 

If your Scout bikes aren’t at least an important part of your strategy, why even take them to begin with?

 

I always take multiple locator beacons, and assuming my opponent actually realizes/remembers this detail (a surprising amount don't even look at your army list) and decides that in a high points game that my little squad of bikers must die at all costs, then they serve as a cheap fire magnet allowing other more dangerous units to go unscathed.

 

But they aren’t that cheap when you factor in their vulnerability.

 

The grenade launcher is best used with the blast template so their BS of 3 doesn't really affect that much.

 

S3 Ap6 blasts are not going to scare many units I’m afraid.

 

(Of course if you scoff at a BS of 3 you have been playing a marine army to much),

 

Well when the rest of the army has BS 4, BS 3 is not exactly great.

 

and assaulting turn one can be done weather or not you actually go first, you just have to adjust your deployment accordingly,

 

What I was trying to imply is that if you go second your opponent will shoot them up and possibly assault them himself if he feels they are a threat. So yes, they can still assault on T1… if they are still alive.

 

and even though they are not the best assault units by a long shot they can easily tie up high value targets until something better can deal with them.

 

A valid point, but that in itself isn’t enough to warrant their inclusion in a list, imo. Especially since your opponent can take measures to prevent your assault in many instances.

 

Finally using their turbo boost you get a cover save to deal with those pesky autocannons.

 

You can’t turbo-boost all game long if you want to actually do something though.

 

(And again, if you scoff at a 4+ armour save, you have been playing a marine army to much)

 

That’s not it. As the only target with a 4+ save, they will just attract all AP4 fire, meaning they will fall like flies as soon as they stop turbo-boosting and aren’t in cover.

 

Plus there are plenty of weapons that make a mockery of 3+ armour saves.

 

Right, but you also have a crapton more 3+ dudes too. Hence the effect of Ap1-3 weapons on your army is diluted.

 

They aren't a powerhouse, they aren't a game winner, but with clever use they can be a force multiplier and go a long way to augmenting your other units.

 

My question to you would be: if they aren’t powerhouses, and aren’t game winners, why not invest the points in units that are (if you aren’t just making a “for fun” list)?

 

From a “fun” point of view, there is nothing wrong with them, but the OP was asking whether they are good or not, not whether they are fun or not.

[Demoulius]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :).

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. :huh:

Cool idea! I like it a lot.

yea, thats actually quite brilliant ;) shame blood angels cant do that though :(

 

ive taken a look at blood angel scout bikers a few times and while they dont fit my own army im sure they can be made to work for the OP :)

 

the added punch of the mines (not to mention mental torture of where you placed them :P ) could also make them very much worth it. small squad doesent cost much and 2 twin linked S6 shots can put a dent in armour quite easily. BS3 with reroll isent bad at all even :) (think they are better odds then something firing at BS4 without reroll ;) )

[Morticon]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :P.

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. ;)

Cool idea! I like it a lot.

 

If you're a vanilla player ;)

 

 

Just wanted to add that I played my first test game today with the scout bikers.

I'm very impressed.

Its only one game though, so I will need to try more but so far so good.

 

As Deschenes has rightly pointed out their 4+ save is really bad, however as expected, the only time they need to make it is when you've completed your mission. I got off a 1st turn charge on 2 units after stunning one of them. I managed to destroy the other. (that squad died shortly after).

 

The other squad I put into reserve to outflank, because my DE opponent was super mobile, i wasnt sure if he would come in from reserve or not. They only came in on 4th turn (but very much to my advantage).

I shot up a squad with frag launchers and multicharged the remnants and another vehicle, wiping out the squad, but only damaging the vehicle.

 

They eventually allowed me to get a draw when in the subsequent turn (after going to ground for a 3++ the turn before) they shot up the last claiming squad of the enemy!

 

More testing to come.

[Stormshadow]

Imperial Deceit linked to this discussion from another thread so I apologies for my comment not applying to BA.

 

Question: can BA get there chaplains and priests on bikes? If so, you could make a first turn assault with FC and FNP. You would have to string the scouts out in a long row, with at least one within 18” of the enemy and one at least 14” away from the IC in your deployment zone. I have herd of Vanilla Marines doing this with a chaplain ore Khan.

 

Combine that with a first turn assault from a LSS and whatever you assault will be at -2 leadership. Could be fun :P.

[JMac]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :).

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. :)

Cool idea! I like it a lot.

 

If you're a vanilla player :huh:

 

Yes, yes, I know, but still very cool!

 

 

They eventually allowed me to get a draw when in the subsequent turn (after going to ground for a 3++ the turn before) they shot up the last claiming squad of the enemy!

Are you saying your bikes went to ground after turbo-boosting or they were in 4++ cover already and went to ground?

 

Imperial Deceit linked to this discussion from another thread so I apologies for my comment not applying to BA.

 

Question: can BA get there chaplains and priests on bikes? If so, you could make a first turn assault with FC and FNP. You would have to string the scouts out in a long row, with at least one within 18” of the enemy and one at least 14” away from the IC in your deployment zone. I have herd of Vanilla Marines doing this with a chaplain ore Khan.

 

Combine that with a first turn assault from a LSS and whatever you assault will be at -2 leadership. Could be fun :lol:.

Yes we can. Although not sure why you would want to as if you 1st turn charge, it is generally a suicide unit.

 

AGAIN with this LSS?!? WTH does it stand for? I asked once already and no reply :(

 

I was also thinking, what about a Blood Rodeo list with scout bikers instead of normal bikers? could be really good, although I could be really tired too :)

[AustonT]

LSS=Land Speeder Storm

[Demoulius]

Scout bikes + Librarian with Gate of Infinity = Super fun :D.

 

I use this tactic to give Terminators and Sternguards a 24” move every turn. Forget about teleporting, Drop pods and land raiders, this is how you travel in style. :P

Cool idea! I like it a lot.

 

If you're a vanilla player :P

 

Yes, yes, I know, but still very cool!

 

 

They eventually allowed me to get a draw when in the subsequent turn (after going to ground for a 3++ the turn before) they shot up the last claiming squad of the enemy!

Are you saying your bikes went to ground after turbo-boosting or they were in 4++ cover already and went to ground?

 

Imperial Deceit linked to this discussion from another thread so I apologies for my comment not applying to BA.

 

Question: can BA get there chaplains and priests on bikes? If so, you could make a first turn assault with FC and FNP. You would have to string the scouts out in a long row, with at least one within 18” of the enemy and one at least 14” away from the IC in your deployment zone. I have herd of Vanilla Marines doing this with a chaplain ore Khan.

 

Combine that with a first turn assault from a LSS and whatever you assault will be at -2 leadership. Could be fun B).

Yes we can. Although not sure why you would want to as if you 1st turn charge, it is generally a suicide unit.

 

AGAIN with this LSS?!? WTH does it stand for? I asked once already and no reply :P

 

I was also thinking, what about a Blood Rodeo list with scout bikers instead of normal bikers? could be really good, although I could be really tired too :cuss

3++ is from the turbo boost move

[Morticon]

They eventually allowed me to get a draw when in the subsequent turn (after going to ground for a 3++ the turn before) they shot up the last claiming squad of the enemy!

Are you saying your bikes went to ground after turbo-boosting or they were in 4++ cover already and went to ground?

 

 

 

 

Sorry wasn't clear!!

 

Turn 4 they came on, charged- won, consolidated into cover. Went to ground then! No turboing from that squad.

[Demoulius]

ah, my bad then. i thought it was from a turbo boost <_<

[JMac]

ok good. because turbo boosting bikes cannot go to ground

[SnorriSnorrison]

Imperial Deceit linked to this discussion from another thread so I apologies for my comment not applying to BA.

 

Question: can BA get there chaplains and priests on bikes? If so, you could make a first turn assault with FC and FNP. You would have to string the scouts out in a long row, with at least one within 18” of the enemy and one at least 14” away from the IC in your deployment zone. I have herd of Vanilla Marines doing this with a chaplain ore Khan.

 

Combine that with a first turn assault from a LSS and whatever you assault will be at -2 leadership. Could be fun <_<.

 

Yes, we can take Chaps and Priests on bikes, but what should we assault in turn one? Most of the valuable(=expensive) units are in transports such as Landraiders or come in from reserves, and other infantry units rather than the absolute elite simply can't justify the waste of a priest and a chaplain...and you'd need 10 bikers to pull this off, and that's were it gets expensive pretty quickly.

 

Scout bikes are probably the only unit that I'd play as a throw-away unit. They are relatively cheap but still can do some things the rest of our army can't(which was already said earlier).

 

However, as you suggested, we can't use the Land Speeder Storm unfortunately. I have no idea why, probably 'cause BA are fast enough already, or simply because marines need their toys too. Would be nice though, -2 leadership modifier is pretty awesome.

 

 

Snorri