Latest 6th Ed Rumors for CC

[Candleshoes]

Latest scuttlebutt doing the rounds (via Faeit 212 and the Lounge)

 

Close Combat weapons will now have an AP value:

 

 

Chainfists: AP1

Powerfists: AP2

Powerweapons: AP3

 

Wow.

 

If this turns out to be true, terminator survivability goes through the roof and arming your Deathwing got a lot more interesting.

 

That means power weapons and lightning claws wounding our terminators, still give a full 2+ save. Vice versa, when going toe to toe with other 2+ opponents, those quick PW or LC attacks will not be as effective.

 

Really hits home some more viability in "tactical" terminator setups, as fists and hammers will be the go to item for killing other elites/tough as nails.

 

Against armies like Grey Knights or even Blood Angels/Space Wolves/Black Templars, where you used to have much higher initiative power weapons or lightning claws tearing you up before you get to strike, now it will just bounce off.

 

Thoughts and potentials?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

It will mean that DW will trade the few PW and LC it still had for more chainfists, TH and PF's. And we'll get a good laugh facing GK's in CC. ;)

[Raven Angel]

I see the cost of my terminators going up again ;) If this is true it could also indicate that all monsterus creatures might not be equally able to lay the smackdown either.

[march10k]

I see a couple effects. First, the very few people with access to both fists and power weapons who currently opt for the cheaper power weapon will all jump on the fist wagon....unless fists go up to 30 points and power swords down to 10?

 

And termies either go down to a base price from which you buy kit a la carte on a per model basis, where a lightning claw termie is 10-15 points cheaper than a thundernator, or the price of a termie goes up to ~50 points and nobody fields lightning claws and power weapons any more.

 

But...you've touched on why that'll never happen. Not being AP2 would gut GK termies with their fancy pants halberds. And I don't see GW doing that, in spite of the urgent need for some sort of nerf to the bastards.

[Brother dean]

Really hits home some more viability in "tactical" terminator setups, as fists and hammers will be the go to item for killing other elites/tough as nails.

Thoughts... Tee Hee! My seven squads of "Tactical" termies get a new life...

[EPK]

Hmmm... well if that's the case, they might as well add AP to a chainsword as well. Considering it doesn't have an energy field involved with it, it could be high, like AP 5 or 6. Only seems fair, considering that's sort of what it's for.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

AP in a chainsword would make assault marines a bit more viable against hordes and whatnot. Not a bad idea.

[Isiah]

If true this is very good news for the Deathwing <_<.

 

From what I've seen and heard, cc in 6th Edition is going to be an extremely bloody (and quick) affair. What with that and a changes to the wound allocation – the game's gonna speed up no end!!

 

Cheers

I

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I dont actually see this happening...Power Weapons would most likely be AP2. As has been said, it would nerf GK too much, I feel. That said, would make DW a very powerful army in the next edition.

[Onisuzume]

Just a question, but is there any substance to these rumours?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Just a question, but is there any substance to these rumours?

They're as substantial as any other. we need to add salt.. :lol:

[shabbadoo]

But...you've touched on why that'll never happen. Not being AP2 would gut GK termies with their fancy pants halberds. And I don't see GW doing that, in spite of the urgent need for some sort of nerf to the bastards.

 

Oh, yeah, gut them. All of those free Daemon Hammer upgrades for every single Terminator, or that every single "much cheaper than a Terminator" power-armored GK can also get them, will surly see the GK unable to deal with anything, ever. Not that every single model can carry such a weapon, or a variety of others, but that they also carry a stormbolter for some mobile firepower, which surely can be concentrated to thin out TDA equivalent armored units before there even is any close combat...

 

And it isn't like the GK have any units/powers that can deal with TDA equivalents, like a Dreadknight, a Dreadnought (Venerable or not), or lascannon-armed Land Raiders or Razrobacks, a Stormraven armed with AP 2/rending weapons, or access to the Smite, Vortex of Doom, or Warp Rift psychic powers...

 

But yes, queue up the sad violin music for the GKs, for they will be helpless. :lol:

[Interrogator Stobz]

Grain of salt first, but I'm quite keen on these sorts of mods to CC. I'd see chainswords at AP4 or 5 and CC weapons at AP5 or 6, the scale will be awesome for CC armies, the GK will not be too badly hurt as most Mahreen armies are MEQ heavy not TEQ, only our DW builds are really placed well in that context. Shabbz has rightly said that GKs get tonnes of other great options that can eat us up prior to CC.

HOWEVER...

The realist in me whispers that it'll be swings and roundabouts, we'll get a new dex with different options and probably higher costs to now, our old dex will rock for a few months then reality will kick us back down where we belong :)

 

s

[twopounder]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but these stink of the same rules in the (completely) debunked 6th ed "leak." Which means you shouldn't put any stock in them at all.

[Isiah]

No one is – they're just rumours :lol: . Fun though

[shabbadoo]

Even considering that possibility, with the 6E BRB going up for pre-order in about 4 weeks, copies of the rules are "out there" by now. From here on out we'll be seeing many more bits of info trickling out here and there on the internet.

[Brother Kovash]

If these rumors prove to be true, then I'll be very happy. My shooting terminators will finally be able to go toe-to-toe with some monstrous creatures. Also, I won't have to worry about outflanking genestealers all the time.

[Aegnor]

Exciting for DW, but honestly upon reading that, mainly thinking of my Salamander Hammer-nators and feeling the kind of stirring that we're always assured Astartes don't get anymore, after their transformation.

 

Hint: I'm not talking about fear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second Hint: in my pants!

[twopounder]

No one is – they're just rumours :P . Fun though

 

From the responses, people are already considering them. Let alone those who aren't responding. The rules could be interesting if used all the way through (including vehicles and monstrous creatures) but these rules were released under the debunked 6th ed leak. So either some of the leak was real, GW stole some of it at the last minute, or none of this will be included in the new edition.

 

Just saying.

[EPK]

No one is – they're just rumours :cuss . Fun though

 

From the responses, people are already considering them.

 

What's wrong with considering rumors? How well would it work if someone posted a rumor and told no one to comment? This is a discussion board after all. We're not considering it to be totally true, we are simply considering the implications of said rumor, regardless of it turning out to be true or not.

[Candleshoes]

Ya, I think EPK hit it.

 

With all the discussions and flack flying around lately about the "6th ed rulebook being imminent", and the 5th ed rulebook being taken off shelves, it is safe to say that the window is almost closed on the old edition and within the next 3 months, we will likely be playing 6th.

 

Some of the current circulating rumors are worth bringing up, especially something that affects one of the DA mainstay units.

 

One might say, if anyone were to have good discussion on it, plausible or not, it would be us and the GK.

[march10k]

If these rumors prove to be true, then I'll be very happy. My shooting terminators will finally be able to go toe-to-toe with some monstrous creatures. Also, I won't have to worry about outflanking genestealers all the time.

 

I don't understand how this rule change would affect a fight between SB/PF termies and TMCs/stealers???

[shabbadoo]

Rending close combat wounds of a 6 "count as wounds from a power weapon", meaning they would be AP 3. That would make Genestealers no better than anything else against TDA, if the rumors are true. For MCs, "all wounds...ignore armour saves, just like a power weapon." makes those attacks AP 3 too.

 

Of course FAQs and tweaks to the USRs in the core rules could change a lot of things. There are too many rumors/unknown variables at this point to be celebrating anything just yet.

[twopounder]

Rending close combat wound of a 6 "count as wounds from a power weapon", menain they would be AP 3. That would make Genestealers no better than anything else against TDA, if the rumors are true. For MCs, "all wounds...ignore armour saves, just like a power weapon." makes those attacks AP 3 too.

 

Of course FAQs and tweaks to the USRs in the core rules could change a lot of things. There are too many rumors/unknown variables at this point to be celebrating anything just yet.

 

The only way that would work is if the AP is based on MC strength. So str 5 would be AP 6, str 6 would be AP5 and so on. In this way, Str10 would be AP1. So a carnifex, wraithlord, and dreadnought would all be AP1, while a hive tyrant, demon prince and avatar would be ap5 without special wargear (bone swords could give the bonus AP for example).

 

Otherwise you're going to have space marine armies that ignore the entire armor save range of whole codices with almost no worry to their own armor saves.

 

Also, if I recall correctly, rending specifically makes the weapon AP2 in 5th ed.

[dswanick]

Also, if I recall correctly, rending specifically makes the weapon AP2 in 5th ed.

Only Rending shooting attacks are AP 2. Rending CC attacks count as Power Weapons - which would make them AP3 by this rumor.