Tanhausen Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hi there traitor scum, I'm thinking about a conversion project, mainly with a fluffy background (meaning I'll be using a non Chaos build) and I'd appreciate a hand or two. What legion is considered the most "mystic" or "faithfull"? The whole idea is a small independent group, extremely obsessed in its own beliefs... Thanks for the replies! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 What legion is considered the most "mystic"TSonsor "faithful"?Word Bearers. The two combined? Ahriman's Cabal. My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I agree, and not because I'm biased. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalricus Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The Word Bearers are the most involved with religion as a whole ( and that was the case with the cult towards the emperor even before the emperor came to Colchis). Their motive for waging the great war is not simply the destruction of the imperium, but to spread the faith in the warp gods ( and not only the four major gods), and by doing so, bring enlightenment to the worlds they cross ( or actually purge very efficiently) They are mostly polytheistic, but some exceptions can occur, as some marines / squads rely mostly on the favour of one single god. I guess a WB warband of some sort might work out just fine! The Word Bearer novels ( First Heretic, and the WB Omnibus [ Dark Apostle, Dark Disciple, Dark Creed] are really nice, and could give you a nice insight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 i agree that a warband based on the Word Bearers is probably your best choice from an army building perspective. Especially if you are going for a more general Chaos oriented group. T-sons mystics is also a fine idea. might be a more strike team style group though Those are the obvious ones anyway. You could probaly use ideas on specific gods with a little thought and research. World eater subfaction a bit more like the Chosen of Khaine from the Malus Darkblade series maybe? There is little hard fluff on the Dark Mechanicus faithwise so far but that"Cult of the Dragon" thingy crops up in the HH series - maybe Iron Warriors subcult devoted to a twisted/choasy admech beliefs if you are looking for something outside he box? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks for the replies! So, if I get it right... Thousand Sons are more into alchemy, sorcery and "paranormal" stuff. Word Bearers are more of a religious zealots? I'm sure you will will cringe at the simplification... I'm really not that much into the Chaos Gods "background"...and thought only 4 were going around (Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh). So as a rought draft, the idea is as follows: A fraction of a legion got dispersed after the HH they were chased by [loyal Chapter to be decided] and ended up in a remote galaxy. They landed at a Forge World, which was already "infected" by the "would be Chaos God" that later became their main God [Tzeench or maybe a a Greater Daemon]. It was a backwater forge, ancient but so far away from the main battles that it didn't we neither that much attention nor supplies or techonologies. The idea being they became experts in mantaining Terminators suits, Dreadnoughts and basically elite heavy assault units. Once the renegades and the heretic technomarines got into an understanding of each other, the leader of the legion scision [became a Chaos Champion? A Greater Daemon? don't know yet] sealed a pact, which in consecuence bound the 2 factions together and pulled the Forge World from real space into the Warp. And basically the idea is they are holding the Truth of their God amidst so many False Idols. Their strength is their unwavering faith upon their Leader and its God/s, along with extremely well kept gear, though from a very limited pool. I know all this sounds vague and probably contradicts with common Chaos fluff....but hey, its just to see if some of this strikes home and see if it rings. Ideas are more than welcome and constructive criticysm is a boon certainly! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thousand Sons are more into alchemy, sorcery and "paranormal" stuff. Word Bearers are more of a religious zealots? A fine start, remember though that Word Bearers were also the first legion to have direct and knowing contact with the forces of chaos. If you want a daemon heavy influence in your army, they would be the natural choice. Thousand Sons would be a close second. A fraction of a legion got dispersed after the HH they were chased by [loyal Chapter to be decided] and ended up in a remote galaxy. Since the whole 40k world takes places in a single galaxy (for the most part) I would change galaxy to system. They landed at a Forge World, which was already "infected" by the "would be Chaos God" that later became their main God [Tzeench or maybe a a Greater Daemon]. It was a backwater forge, ancient but so far away from the main battles that it didn't we neither that much attention nor supplies or techonologies. The idea being they became experts in mantaining Terminators suits, Dreadnoughts and basically elite heavy assault units. While this approach is workable, its somewhat common background for people doing their own thing. The whole "found a lost cache/forgeworld/ship/pile of ponies etc" is an often played card. One must remember that even for something as massive as the Imperium, forge worlds represent a significant investment and its unlikely, but not impossible, that they would be lost or misplaced. Once the renegades and the heretic technomarines got into an understanding of each other, the leader of the legion scision [became a Chaos Champion? A Greater Daemon? don't know yet] sealed a pact, which in consecuence bound the 2 factions together and pulled the Forge World from real space into the Warp. This has potential but consider changing it so that the off world legion was drawn or led to the planent by the same force that the on planet faction worshipped. And basically the idea is they are holding the Truth of their God amidst so many False Idols. Their strength is their unwavering faith upon their Leader and its God/s, along with extremely well kept gear, though from a very limited pool. I know all this sounds vague and probably contradicts with common Chaos fluff....but hey, its just to see if some of this strikes home and see if it rings. This sounds very much like Word Bearers, which makes them my first choice for you. As for the idea as a whole, I mentioned a few things above but have you considered making the legion the bringers of the faith to this backwater planet, similar to what all of the legions were doing during the great crusade but in this case they bring the true faith of Chaos and with it, a hatred of the Imperium. From this world your legion could draw new potential recruits, be supplied with food and base materials for fuel and machines. The techmarines could set up foundries and factories on planet for the more complicated items, giving you a limited but renewable source of gear. With the planet, the idea of bringing it into the warp is good but I'd add a twist to it by saying that like the moon goes through phases, so does the planet, alternating between being totally in real space or totally in the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalricus Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I second Minigun's advice, it's pretty much what i think. Concerning the warp and the chaos gods, it's a quite complex topic ( which i believe has been treated somewhere in the chaos ascendant sub-forum). To keep it short: Gods: They are immaterial forces who grow by raw emotions ( like fear, anger, love, lust and so on) Those emotions, when globally powerful enough can give birth to a concious being ( quite like the birth of Slaanesh who caused the Eye of Terror to come into the galaxy, and spread from there). The power of the gods depend on the amount and the strength of the emotions they get, and die if they don't get any prayer or whatever type of glorification in a long time. The four major Gods are quite safe, since they feed on very primal but strong emotions ( roughly, anger / hate for Khorne, lust / vanity for Slaanesh, hope / ambition for Tzeench and despair for Nurgle). Next to those, other gods can be born other emotions, and forces other than those four are indeed present in the warp. World Bearers belief: Before the emperor came to Colchis, their home world, Lorgar had visions of a saviour who would bring enlightenment to humanity. Colchis was in a religious war in those times, and by the time the emperor arrived, Lorgar had took over, and preached in his name. Being against any form of cult (even of himself), he denied being a god, and sent Lorgar and his bearers into space, to expand his imperium. After being offended by the emperor, Lorgar was eager to see what the warp really was, and if they were actual Gods, since the emperor clearly couldn't be one. He sent some of his men in the warp ( the Gal Vorbak), and turned towards chaos as a whole. This does not mean they pray the four major gods in an even fashion, but that they adore the concept of warp, and what it contains ( including the four gods, but also aware that there are other mysterious, dangerous and very powerful things out there. I really don't know if it's any clearer, i strongly reccomend reading the WB books, they are truely great! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Minigun762 point out most things (like all of w40k setting being within that same galaxy). I must however point out that your story is basically already avalible in the Word Bearers, as they are. This: And basically the idea is they are holding the Truth of their God amidst so many False Idols. Their strength is their unwavering faith upon their Leader and its God/s, along with extremely well kept gear, though from a very limited pool. This is what the WB are all about, it's their trademark thingy, kinda like the Space Wolves being viking rebels who like wolves. The WB also have a named 'Factory World' called Ghalmek, and they seem to have good relations with the Dark Mechanicus. I recommend reading the article over at Lexicanum. I mean, it's no fun if you make up a faction that is already an established part of the setting. Also remember that even if the WB are still an organised Legion, they are split into numerous warbands (called Hosts), meaning you are free to make up for example a specific patron daemon that they honour. For instance, the story for my host has it that the first Coryphaus (a sort of tactical commander) ascended to daemonhood, and the host still honours him with prayers and sacrifices, meaning he is sort of their patron warp power. He sometimes bless them with his divine presence on/of the battlefield, giving me a reason to include a Daemon Prince once in a while, even though the WB leaders (the Dark Apostles) do not ascend to daemonhood in general. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The Word Bearers are the most involved with religion as a whole ( and that was the case with the cult towards the emperor even before the emperor came to Colchis). Incorrect, it was a cult towards the Chaos Gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalricus Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well they did pray to the dark gods, but they didn't know to whom or what they were praying to, until the Pilgrimage ( that's at least how i understood the reading of "First Heretic", but i can be mistaken). What i meant when i said that they were praying the emperor before he came to Colchis ( Lorgar had visions of the emperor coming to Colchis, and greeted him as a god), is that since the Word Bearers were founded, they were religious zealots ( hence the name by the way), who cared about spirituality at least as much as warfare. They truely believed the emperor was divine, and would enlighten humanity, until the imperial spanking on Monarchia, and discovered (or at least re-discovered) the chaos gods shortly after. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well they did pray to the dark gods, but they didn't know to whom or what they were praying to, until the Pilgrimage ( that's at least how i understood the reading of "First Heretic", but i can be mistaken).What i meant when i said that they were praying the emperor before he came to Colchis ( Lorgar had visions of the emperor coming to Colchis, and greeted him as a god), is that since the Word Bearers were founded, they were religious zealots ( hence the name by the way), who cared about spirituality at least as much as warfare. They truely believed the emperor was divine, and would enlighten humanity, until the imperial spanking on Monarchia, and discovered (or at least re-discovered) the chaos gods shortly after. This is mostly correct. However, before the Emperor came, they prayed to the Chaos Gods. When the Emperor came, they mistook him for thee divine beings they had been worshipping, much like the Knight Titans in Mechanicum believed the Emperor was the Omnissiah. I understand that the Omnissiah was set up by the Emperor, but that would be the primary difference between the two examples. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3075336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Nope! Lorgar conquered the planet and shut down worship of Chaos due to his visions of the Emperor - they didn't think he was the Chaos gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Nope! Lorgar conquered the planet and shut down worship of Chaos due to his visions of the Emperor - they didn't think he was the Chaos gods. Er, what? I remember clearly TFH stating Kor Phaeron, Erebrus, and Lorgar were all priests when the Emperor found them :lol: And if Lorgar shut down worship, why did he later get censured for worshipping the Emperor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 All he did was consolidate all of the religious sects into worshipping the Emperor who he believed was the coming "Messaiah" that the Colchisian religion prophesied was coming. Or something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 But it also mentions that the old Colchisian faith was of the Dark Gods. Remember the scene where Lorgar grabs Kor Phaeron by the throat because he's so mad? He was mad about the two of them allowing embers of faith on some of the planets, including Colchis, faith in the Chaos Gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yes, a faith in the Chaos Gods, which Lorgar crusaded against to replace with worship of his One God, the Emperor. When the Emperor arrived, Colchis worshipped him, with worship of the Pantheon almost entirely exterminated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You two got where I was going with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3078994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yes, a faith in the Chaos Gods, which Lorgar crusaded against to replace with worship of his One God, the Emperor. When the Emperor arrived, Colchis worshipped him, with worship of the Pantheon almost entirely exterminated ... Cadia worshipped the Dark Gods. Their religion was identical to the Colchisian one, hence why Lorgar and the others recognized everything. Thus the Colchisian worship was of the Dark Gods, and they mistook their saviour to be the Emperor. While I know that the golden light Lorgar saw in his dreams was undoubtably the Emperor, he thought that it was of the Dark Gods. It actually wasn't. Also. When the Lady (I can't remember her name off the top of my head, sadly) returned, she was revered as blessed, right? Colchis was still a temple planet, and it was in limbo from worshipping the Emperor. It returned to the worship of the Chaos Gods later - would they really do that for a religion they had crusaded against? They did worship the Emperor, yes. But only because they thought he was the beings they had been worshipping. He was not, as they later found out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Uh, no? Lorgar got rid of faith in Chaos from his home planet and replaced it with Emperor-worship. After Monarchia, Lorgar said "but daddy why" and Kor Phaeron said "how about chaos" and Lorgar said "but chaos is gone" and Erebus said "lol nope" and then Kor Phaeron took Lorgar to Cadia and that was that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Uh, no? Lorgar got rid of faith in Chaos from his home planet and replaced it with Emperor-worship. After Monarchia, Lorgar said "but daddy why" and Kor Phaeron said "how about chaos" and Lorgar said "but chaos is gone" and Erebus said "lol nope" and then Kor Phaeron took Lorgar to Cadia and that was that. I think we're reading the same thing differently. I'm fairly certain that Colchis was unified for Chaos and the Emperor just stepped in, you that the Emperor was who they were originally fighting for. I simply don't consider that plausible because they would have to conquer the planet pretty fast once Lorgar got the visions, which started what? Maybe a few months at the most before the Emperor came? It's incredibly unlikely. That they were fighting for Chaos Undivided, and then they thought the golden dreams were representative of their inevitable victory, seems much more likely. But this seems to be a matter of interpretation, though it should be solid. Perhaps ADB can clear this up, if he's around? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Key word being the Old Colchisian faith. Which was indeed towards the Primordial Truth. The New Colchisian faith, as ushered in by Lorgar until his leave, was directed towards the Emperor, as he had been having visions of his and Magnus' arrival. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It's mentioned that Lorgar had nightmares throughout his whole life, and that finding that other people had pleasant dreams was a shock to him. As such, I think that we can assume that his visions started early. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Key word being the Old Colchisian faith. Which was indeed towards the Primordial Truth. The New Colchisian faith, as ushered in by Lorgar until his leave, was directed towards the Emperor, as he had been having visions of his and Magnus' arrival. TDA Yes, but no. I've explained why above. The only thing I have to say further is that the term 'New Colchisian faith' was developed after the Emperor came. It's mentioned that Lorgar had nightmares throughout his whole life, and that finding that other people had pleasant dreams was a shock to him. As such, I think that we can assume that his visions started early. The fact they were nightmares didn't shout Chaos to you? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Helping. EDIT: Dang, looks like I read it wrong. Maybe you're right? If ADB were here he could help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253436-faith-in-chaos-fluffy-question/#findComment-3079566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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