Gene-seeds and Combat Doctrines

[Priamus]

Ok my problem is that I want my DIY Chapter to have the Gene-seed of Rogal Dorn (Becasue he is the greatest Primarch)

 

but have elements of the Chapter fight like the Raven Guard with stealth. but use melee and long range weapons..ie snipers and lascannons

 

So like 2 of the 10 squads fight like Raven Guard )( For 1 Company)

While the other 8 fight...hmm imagin a Phalanx but with bolters )

 

Reason is my favorite battle plan is the Hammer and Anvil

 

Really my problem is I have a bunch of ideas but no solid idea on how to connect them and keep it within the realism

[Ace Debonair]

Geneseed doesn't really inform combat doctrines that much. Anyone can fight any way they want, so long as you explain it well enough. :P

 

If your Chapter is like the Imperial Fists, they'd probably have a hereditary disdain for stealth. There's something famous about Dorn calling camoflauge the 'colour of cowardice', I think, and there's no real reason why your Chapter shouldn't start out the same way.

 

But that doesn't neccesarily mean they wouldn't see the value of stealth as a weapon. Over time, the prejudice against stealth actions could fade, and become instead just another part of the routine of warfare, another tool to be employed as required to smite the enemies of humanity.

 

Job done, happy days, etc etc. ;)

[InquisitorHayn]

I believe this is a common problem with many IAs, one I've had myself to be honest. As writers, we tend to attribute too much to how a Chapter fights in defining who they are. This is usually the result of trying to build a story around how one likes to play the game. Personally, I shudder when people write about how their Marines, or even just some of them, are stealth specialists or siege fanatics or what have you. The IG train guardsmen for very specific duties, much like a modern-day military. Space Marines are more akin to a special operations team in that they can be assigned to any number of different mission types and are required to adapt accordingly. They're experts in many fields and do whatever is necessary to win. Creating Chapters like the Raven Guard is much like saying you really like how your hammer drove that nail in the other day, and so now you're going to use it to wash your dishes and change your lightbulbs too.

 

What makes the Imperial Fists interesting is what they will not do for reasons of personal honor. That lends character to the Chapter. Their peculiar affinity for rarely-employable siege warfare does not (and I rue the day it was added to their fluff).

 

My suggestion (and that is all that it is) is that, if you're writing a story about your Chapter, you focus more on the internal aspects of driving force and character than trying to pigeonhole their methods of warfare. After all, it would be unseemly to suggest that demigods such as the Astartes are so limited in their talents. :P

[Lord_Caerolion]

As Ace Debonair states, the geneseed doesn't have that much of an impact on the nature of a Chapter. Sure, we know that some mental traits are carried in the geneseed, such as the paranoia of the Iron Warriors, or the masochism of the Imperial Fists, but largely, the only impacts of geneseed is physical. A Chapter won't feel an overwhelming urge to go fast just because they use White Scar geneseed, or mysteriously get lots of Terminator armour just because they descend from the Dark Angels.

 

If you want to have sneaky Marines descended from Dorn, that's perfectly fine. The only thing to keep in mind is that they'll most likely have the same drive for self-punishment (although that's not guaranteed, as shown by the Crimson Fists), and they won't have the Betchers Gland or Sus-an Membrane. Just have them as a later founding, who've deviated from the pure Codex in their own way.

 

The other thing to note is that power armour isn't exactly stealthy, given the large amount of noise it produces, and its rather significant heat signiture. It might be worthwhile to have that they make greater use of Scouts, or that, like the Space Wolves, they have their own formation of Marines who wear scout armour rather than power armour for stealth missions. Make use of the Space Wolf codex, making little use of the "Wolfy" stuff, and you've got fully-trained Scouts, and Tactical Marines with Counter-attack, perfect for your "Hammer and Anvil" strategy.

[Priamus]

"Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly,

to creep through the shadows, or to quietly

slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn

Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor's

Champion. Let my enemies cower at my

advance and tremble at the sight of me"

-Rogal Dorn

 

Ya Rogal Dorn not a fan of stealth haha---Ace

 

i am not creating the whole chapter to be Raven Guard..only maybe 200 marines for the whole chapter..so idk but i think im not over doing it much..they will basically replace the devastators

So write the story of my chapter through other means and have their fighting style as smaller focus?

 

For the Chapter I wanted to do something like how the Space Wolves have the wulfen....but only similar as to that they have an aiding force instead them..

But want them to maintain high nobleitiy*. unlike the Space wolves haha

Im hoping this is not me taking what i like out of totally different chapters and trying to combine them.

 

While you are right Lord about Power Armor not being ment for stealth. but the Raven Guard do not seem to have this problem...Im getting my combat reference from The Chapters Due.

 

And i do understand that it is my chapter and i can do what i want...i would like it to be accepted by others to be possible.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, the Raven Guard in power armour aren't really capable of stealth. The Raven Guard favoured tactic is more along the lines of the Scouts sneaking in beforehand, picking the best sites for the rest of the force to drop-pod/jump-pack/teleport in and suddenly blow the enemy apart.

 

Really, the most important thing to remember is that your Chapter is just that, your Chapter. They might use Rogal Dorn's geneseed, but that doesn't mean they're all Imperial Fists in different coloured armour. Don't feel like you've got to go to extraordinary lengths to explain their use of stealth. The easiest explanations would to either have them make use of Veterans in scout armour, like the Space Wolves, or simply to just state that they understand that position for fire support is key, and as such they train their Devastator-equivalents in infiltration so that they can best position themselves.

 

I would state that unless you're putting them in scout armour, these "Raven Guard Marines" will still essentially be Devastators, because as far as I can see, they still provide a fire-support role with heavy weapons to the rest of the force.

 

As for a "Wulfen" type unit, I really can't see any easy explanation for those at the moment, as Dorns geneseed is relatively stable, with its only mutations being two missing organs. They don't have the mutations the Raven Guard, Space Wolf or Blood Angel geneseed do, so the geneseed is an unlikely explanation for any mutants they might have, unless something dramatic has happened in the Chapters history to screw up their geneseed.

[Marshal Rohr]

All Space Marine Chapter fight like the raven guard. Small Unit Action is what the whole codex is about. The Raven Guard's theme is no theme at all, since everyone does that. It's impossible to be stealthy in power armor so the Raven Guard would really be more focused on precise applications of force instead of overwhelming use of force.