Gabriel1303 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Interested to see how fleet and jump pack movement will impact on Mephy as he has both. As I read it jump packs reroll the 2d6 for assault and fleet refills 1d6 for assault. Surely this means fleet is a waste except for occasions when wings fails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Mephy doesn't have a jump pack though. He (possibly) has a psychic power that lets him move as jump infantry, and we don't yet know how that wording could affect things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Then there's the argument that could arise from the fact that Wings just means Mephy can "move as if having a jump pack"...he doesn't actually have one, so he might not benefit from the jump pack re-roll. Depends largely on the wording of the rule and whether or not it gets a quick FAQ. I.e. if the rule says "models equipped with a jump pack may re-roll their charge distance" then he might not get it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Here is the best summary I've found: Core System - Change to Pre-Measure like WHFB 8th Edition. - Force Organization Chart is still in use, no use of Percentage - Adding new FoC Slot called "Fortification" [0-1] / see below - Phases remains the same, Movement, Shooting, and then Assault - No Psychic Phase - No Initiative Phase Movement Phase - Movement is pretty much the same. Infantry can move 6", Jump Infantry 12" and so on. Shooting Phase - Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away) - Pistol is pretty much the same. - New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving. - Heavy Weapon can now be fired on the move, but will be subjected to 'snap fire' rule. - "Snap Fire" allows certain weapon types to shoot even if moving, but with a BS of 1 (ie. 6 to hit) - Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire" - You can only killed as much models in target unit as you can actually see (and within max range). - Casualties are now removed from closest to furthest. - Wound Allocation is completely changed. - When shooting at unit partially in cover, player can choose to "Focus Fire" to kill only models in the open (or in a less covered position). - You can now throw (most) grenades in the Shooting Phase at the range of 8", limited to 1 grenade per unit per Phase. Assault Phase - Charge Distance is now 2D6" adding together. - Unit can elect to "Overwatch" if being assaulted. Simply a "Stand and Shoot 40K version" - resolved at BS1, Template does D3 hit instead. - Overwatch can be done only once per turn. - Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A) - Unit assaulting multiple enemy unit is subjected to multiple Overwatch. - Unlike Stand & Shoot, Overwatch does NOT cause Morale Check or Pinning. - Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike) - Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase - Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10). - Challenges are in for IC. - Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition. - Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced) - Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition) Vehicles - Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired) - Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6". - Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire) - Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out]) - Skimmer got a cover save called Jink, basically 5+ cover save and improved to 4+ if going Flat Out. - Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault. - Flyers are now in, with its own rules. - Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS. - When moving fast (called "Zooming") Flyers cannot move less than 12" and cannot disembark any models. Vehicle and Damage - New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits. - AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2. - AP"-" is no longer -1 on the table. - Open-Topped is +1 as well. - No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle. - Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck. - Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true. Vehicle and Passenger - Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6". - Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move. - Embarking is pretty much the same. - Unit count as moving if the vehicle moved 0.1-6", and can only "Snap Fire" if the vehicle move 6.01 - 12" - Open-topped transport rules are the same (access points and fire points) - Exploding Flyer that has "zoomed" will result in a S10 no armour save on its passenger. And some sort of S6 Large Blast at any unit under the point the vehicle goes on flame. Psychic Power - NO PSYCHIC PHASE (or whatever people are assuming they are) - Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed. - Types of psychic power, witchfire (psychic shooting attack), focused witchfire (has a chance to allow player to choose the target model when removing casualty by rolling low scores on Psychic Test), nova (affects all enemy units within range), maelstrom (affecting both friendly and enemy within range), blessing (augmented friend), and malediction (de-buff enemy). - "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker. - Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer. - There are 5 new Disciplines of Psychic Powers in the BRB, each has 7 Powers. Each army can access different Disciplines, some cannot use them at all. - Casting Psychic Power remains the same as in 5th. - Psychic Powers now have 2 level, calling Warp Charge 1 and 2. Mastery Level 1 can only use Warp Charge 1 power, while Mastery Level 2 allows you to cast 2 "Warp Charge 1" power or 1 "Warp Charge 2". Higher Mastery allows for more. - Each Psyker generate Warp Charge equal to his Mastery Level. Characters - Look Out, Sir! is in. Grants character 50% chance to evade the attack if he's within 6" of friendly unit (works in combat too), resolved each successful Look Out Sir on the models within 6" instead. - Look Out Sir! is improved to 2+ for Independent Character. - Character can issue / accept challenges. - One model in your army will be the Warlord (one with highest LD), Warlord can roll on a table (there's 3 table, you can choose 1) to see what benefit he receive. Examples are units within 12" can use his LD, the Character count as Scoring Units, Warlord has FNP if within 3" of Objective. Tidbits - Fortification - a new addition to the FoC, limited to 0-1 this allows player to purchase some kind of terrain for their army. Expensive one are Fortress of Redemption (220 points) and cheap ones are Aegis Defence Lines (50 points) - Allies - a new system that allows player to have a detachment made of another army in the list. Allies works like WFB8th Edition with best buddies, normal allies, and untrusted. The detachment is limited to 1HQ and 1 Troop(compulsory) and additional 1 Troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support. Missions - There are 3 Deployment Types, one being the classic Pitched Battle, second one is reversed Pitched Battle (deploying along the short table edges), and third one is a triangular deployment. - Selecting deployment zone remains the same, roll-off to see who deploys first and go first. - Seize Initiative is still the same. - 6 Missions with 2 Level Objectives. Primary Objectives grants more Victory Points, but harder to achieve. Secondary Objective is always 1 VP and has 3 of them. First Blood (for getting the first "kill point", Slay the Warlord (for killing the enemy Warlord - aka. general), and Linebreaker (having your units in enemy deployment zone at the end of the game) - Deep Strike Mishap is softened now: 1 - You're Dead, 2-3 Misplaced, and 4-6 Delayed. - Feel No Pain dropped to 5+ - There's still only 1 Level of Instant Death, no Instant Death(x) - Fleet allows for re-rolls on Run and possibly Assault distances. - "Hammer of Wrath" allows model to make single attack at their base strength before combat on the turn it assault. Jump Infantry and Bike have it. - Monstrous Creature can make "Smash" attack, forfeit half of its attack to resolve attack at Sx2 against vehicle. - Flying Monstrous Creature can make two mode of movement. One being 24" move, performing D3+1 "Vector Strike" on a single unit within the path and then shoot up to two weapons or run 2D6" in the shooting phase. However, it cannot assault or being assaulted unless it get shot and fall down from the sky first (can't remember how you fire at it, 6 only?) Should it fall from the sky, it will take S9 hit and can now be assaulted as normal. - Sniper has rule to allow them to allocate wounds to the model of your choice if you roll a 6 when rolling to hit. - Rage is now +2 Attack on assault. - Many new generalization of rules...such as Armourbane (roll 2d6 for armour penetration) and Fleshbane (2+ to wound)....this also expands to weapons as well (unwieldy, concussive, etc.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 That was posted over in the 6th ed thread in Amicus too matey! ;) But thanks for sharing here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 As for BA hopes, the allies system really shakes up the army composition side of things, and so much could be spoken on that. I'll be likely fielding an unholy alliance of my Necron and Blood Angel armies. Gauss Blaster Immortals + Jumpers, Scythes and Ravens. Bolter Death Company swarm is looking really attractive; -Fearless -Rumored Relentless = 2 shots at 24" on the move per model, 3 shots at 12" -+2 Attacks on the charge. -Librarian grants Preferred Enemy rerolls to their shooting and combat. -Feel No pain is 5+ Save vs all weapons Str7 or less. Sanguinary Guard; -2+Save vs Power Swords and lightning claws. -2D6 Charge distance with a reroll. -Casualties removed from front ranks. -up to 5 Str4 I10 impact hits to rub salt in the wound. Storm Raven; -Zoom rule move 36" fire all 4 missles + primary via machine spirit, hit on 6's in return. -If this rule interacts with Skies of Blood and locator beacon, will be silly. Hello dropping Preferred Enemy Bolter Death company on your doorstep. -If no interaction, Falling from the skies if the Raven is destroyed won't bother Mephy, who now laughs off the lightning Claws and Powerweapons as well :/ BA Characters; -Dante, Mephy, Astorath, Sanguinor all have 2+ saves, which are the new black. -Dante and Astorath should have power axe rules which ignore 2+ Saves. -Duels mostly help us out. edit: oops sorry didn't see the other rumor thread with the same post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Anyone else noticed the Mephiston as he's T6 gets FNP all the time! A huge buff from no invun. save at all! I think the biggest thing that i don't like or at least will take the longest to get used to is removing models from the front first. In one breath GW is championing heroic acts then the other forcing characters, sargents and special weapons to lead from the back like cowardly dogs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 As for BA hopes, the allies system really shakes up the army composition side of things, and so much could be spoken on that. I'll be likely fielding an unholy alliance of my Necron and Blood Angel armies. Gauss Blaster Immortals + Jumpers, Scythes and Ravens. Bolter Death Company swarm is looking really attractive; -Fearless -Rumored Relentless = 2 shots at 24" on the move per model, 3 shots at 12" -+2 Attacks on the charge. -Librarian grants Preferred Enemy rerolls to their shooting and combat. -Feel No pain is 5+ Save vs all weapons Str7 or less. Fixed that. Rage is in the assault phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Whups! Darn I was looking forward to that combo too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Whups! Darn I was looking forward to that combo too! It's still very attractive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel1303 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Anyone else noticed the Mephiston as he's T6 gets FNP all the time! A huge buff from no invun. save at all! I think the biggest thing that i don't like or at least will take the longest to get used to is removing models from the front first. In one breath GW is championing heroic acts then the other forcing characters, sargents and special weapons to lead from the back like cowardly dogs! Im liking that, mephy will be more resilient vs power weapons now. Wonder if watch out sir will help him too Love that i can actually use sanguinary guard again too. Libby dreads with wings have a nice charge range with those 2d6 rerolls Be good if dante gets the power axe. At last he gets the strength buff. And i can wait for deepstriking vanguard with the 2d6 charge ;) Im liking the sound of these rumours. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I may be wrong but IIRC Dante's weapon is Axe Fatalis (or something to that vein) and has its own rules, so any rules for a Power Axe won't apply? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I may be wrong but IIRC Dante's weapon is Axe Fatalis (or something to that vein) and has its own rules, so any rules for a Power Axe won't apply? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see when the FAQs hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 does nobody else hope he DOESN'T get the power axe rule? Dante doesn't have eternal warrior and his main advantage is he's currently faster (especially with a priest) than nearly every enemy he can go up against... if Power axe drop Init then that's actually not so good IMO. I'd prefer to have him strike ahead of near enough every enemy he faces with his 4 + 1 (tccw) +1 (charge) + 1 (chapter banner) and now +1 (jump infantry) attacks... He regularly smooshes chaos lords right now due to being able to mince them before they can retaliate... if said chaos lord can strike simultaneously... might result in needing to pick a new character ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I may be wrong but IIRC Dante's weapon is Axe Fatalis (or something to that vein) and has its own rules, so any rules for a Power Axe won't apply? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see when the FAQs hit. Yup yup. Appiah, James and I (see what i did there) were having a chat earlier today about this. Currently Dante's axe is listed as a PW. What's interesting is that currently there is only one book that even mentions power axes (SW). Everything else mentions "Power Weapons" - not even power swords. I'm of the (totally wild guess) opinion that PW will be the generic term for Power Swords or Power Axes - the cost being the same on account of the benefits/drawbacks and the choice being yours of whether to take a PS or PA. But, again, all just conjecture. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3093989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel1303 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 does nobody else hope he DOESN'T get the power axe rule? Dante doesn't have eternal warrior and his main advantage is he's currently faster (especially with a priest) than nearly every enemy he can go up against... if Power axe drop Init then that's actually not so good IMO. I'd prefer to have him strike ahead of near enough every enemy he faces with his 4 + 1 (tccw) +1 (charge) + 1 (chapter banner) and now +1 (jump infantry) attacks... He regularly smooshes chaos lords right now due to being able to mince them before they can retaliate... if said chaos lord can strike simultaneously... might result in needing to pick a new character ;) Fair point, its going to be one of those test and see situations Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I'm excited for the whole Warlord-thing, ruleswise. Might be better to use a Cap'n over the Librarian with the seemingly heavy nerf on psychic hoods and the random psychic powers. Sanguinary Guard just got even more brutal.Actually, everything with a 2+ save and FnP just got more brutal. Or anything with FnP. Basically the Blood Angels. ;) Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Might be better to use a Cap'n over the Librarian with the seemingly heavy nerf on psychic hoods and the random psychic powers. powers only random if you use the new ones. if you use old ones, its not random. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Currently Dante's Axe Mortalis is classed as a master-crafted power weapon. I reckon that there won't be a difference between a power axe and a power-anything-else-that-isn't-a-fist much like the current rules (current rules say its typically an axe or a sword but could also be a glaive, halberd or mace etc.) Add in the fact that power axes specifically are a bugger to get (I believe the Frost Axes on the wolf sprues are about the only one, and the DA vet sprue has a mace, every other wide-access power weapon is a sword). If anything, I'd say that it would make most sense for it to act in the same way as relic blades (+2 S, but no bonus attack) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Doesn't every assault squad sprue has a power axe in it? ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 powers only random if you use the new ones. if you use old ones, its not random. And that's a good solution. However, the nerf on psychic hoods seems to be the biggest disadvantage Libbies can have right now. The decreased range of 6" and the passive bonus on a unit's "Deny the witch"(sp?) roll limit the psychic defense to a very small part of the battlefield. Gotta wait and see how this turns out. B) Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 With the rumored changes to rapid fire, anyone else considering more use of Sternguard? 30 inch range with at least 1 of the shots on the move? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Currently Dante's Axe Mortalis is classed as a master-crafted power weapon. I reckon that there won't be a difference between a power axe and a power-anything-else-that-isn't-a-fist much like the current rules (current rules say its typically an axe or a sword but could also be a glaive, halberd or mace etc.) Add in the fact that power axes specifically are a bugger to get (I believe the Frost Axes on the wolf sprues are about the only one, and the DA vet sprue has a mace, every other wide-access power weapon is a sword). If anything, I'd say that it would make most sense for it to act in the same way as relic blades (+2 S, but no bonus attack) Did you miss the leaked info regarding Power Axes being +1 strength, AP2 and minus to initiative, Chaplain? Power swords are purported to be AP3 and offer a 5+ inv. parry save Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Power swords 5+ ivul? That might make me swap back to power swords over lightning claws on my priests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 ...Add in the fact that power axes specifically are a bugger to get ... There's a power axe in the Assault marines sprue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/10/#findComment-3094033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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