Your hopes for 6th in relations to BA?

[Deschenus Maximus]

powers only random if you use the new ones. if you use old ones, its not random.

 

And that's a good solution. However, the nerf on psychic hoods seems to be the biggest disadvantage Libbies can have right now. The decreased range of 6" and the passive bonus on a unit's "Deny the witch"(sp?) roll limit the psychic defense to a very small part of the battlefield. Gotta wait and see how this turns out. B)

 

 

Snorri

 

Quite frankly, I'll take the hit to the usefulness of our hoods if it means that our powers go through mostly unimpeded.

 

Mephiston will truely be a beast beyond all reason. Can't stop his Wings, gets FnP regardless of the weapon hitting him, laughs off power swords and claws, and with Fleet and Wings (if they also get the jump pack reroll) will have an INSANE charge range.

[Deschenus Maximus]

- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.

 

Wonder if Cyclones and Typhoon will get this?

 

- Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire"

 

Damn, that would have made Plasma Cannons awesome :-(

 

- Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A)

 

This is a blessing and a curse. It will at least make it easier to stay locked in combat/

 

- Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike)

- Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase

 

Whoa... I think this has HUGE implications. Our ASM charging into a unit will cut down the front ranks, and with only a 3" pile-in, the opponent's retaliation could be very light...

 

- Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10).

 

Makes sense.

 

- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)

 

I wonder what Glaive Encarmines will count as? I'm gonna guess power axes since they are so big.

 

Vehicles

- Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired)

 

What's the point?

 

- Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6".

 

Can ALL vehicles do this now? Lame if so.

 

- Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire)

- Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out])

 

How do these to interact with non-skimmer Fast vehicles?

 

- Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault.

 

Well this certainly makes using Razorbacks to deliver assault troops an altogether less attractive option <_<

 

- Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS.

 

Why do I get the feeling that Hydra squadrons are going to be a very popular Ally option?

 

Vehicle and Damage

- New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits.

- AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2.

 

Missile nerf, oh my!

 

- No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle.

 

Well this certainly makes Vindicators more attractive, but Leman Russes are scary as hell now.

 

- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck.

 

Well, that is both good an bad. I makes vehicles MUCH easier to destroy, but while they aren't dead, they will be much more reliable, what with glancing hits not shaking and stunning them no more. This makes Fortitude and Living Metal seem that much less broken.

 

- Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true.

 

People said that Raiders would become good again. I don't see why. They will still die to melta just as they always did. Maybe the extra attractiveness of plasma will mean that there is less of it on the board, but I think no one will just completely abandon melta weapons.

 

 

Vehicle and Passenger

- Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6".

 

Oh, that is really, REALLY bad. Flamebaals just got a whole lot less attractive :(

 

- Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move.

 

Another nerf to transports, basically cutting 2 inches off from where we could previously place your models.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Currently Dante's Axe Mortalis is classed as a master-crafted power weapon. I reckon that there won't be a difference between a power axe and a power-anything-else-that-isn't-a-fist much like the current rules (current rules say its typically an axe or a sword but could also be a glaive, halberd or mace etc.) Add in the fact that power axes specifically are a bugger to get (I believe the Frost Axes on the wolf sprues are about the only one, and the DA vet sprue has a mace, every other wide-access power weapon is a sword). If anything, I'd say that it would make most sense for it to act in the same way as relic blades (+2 S, but no bonus attack)

 

Did you miss the leaked info regarding Power Axes being +1 strength, AP2 and minus to initiative, Chaplain?

Power swords are purported to be AP3 and offer a 5+ inv. parry save

 

Missed almost all of that... got the AP 3 power swords, but not the axe rumour, or the 5+ parry on power swords. And to all the people that have correctly pointed out the assault marine power axe, and the assault marine in my case not 2 feet away waving his power axe, can I just say that I feel more than a little stupid....

[Morticon]

And to all the people that have correctly pointed out the assault marine power axe, and the assault marine in my case not 2 feet away waving his power axe, can I just say that I feel more than a little stupid....

:(

no harm, no foul!

[Midnightmare]

I wonder how the new axe rules will affect Astorath, as it says his axe stikes at strength 6 (can't be modified?) it would be a bit pants if he had an init penalty and no strength bonus :)

[Morticon]

Ouch- small nerf just in.

 

Pref Enemy is to hit and to wound reroll of 1s. Not straight reroll.

[appiah4]

Ouch- small nerf just in.

 

Pref Enemy is to hit and to wound reroll of 1s. Not straight reroll.

 

Makes sense really;

 

You always reroll 1/6 of the time. If you have WS4 against WS4 you hit 3/6 of the time, so the re-roll gives you an extra 3/36 chance to hit. If you have WS3 against WS4 you hit 2/6 of the time, so the re-roll gives you an extra 4/36 chance to hit. If you have WS5 against WS4 you hit 4/6 of the time, so the re-roll gives you an extra 4/36 chance to hit.

 

Now the benefit is more linear. Previously the benefit was really weird and most useful for matching WSs and S/T values - that way you got a 9/36 extra chance of hitting. If the difference went either way the benefit decreased exponentially.

[Morticon]

WHoooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo !!!!

 

Just been "confirmed" that Rage is just +2 attacks!!!!!! mwuahahhahahaha

[Gabriel1303]

WHoooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo !!!!

 

Just been "confirmed" that Rage is just +2 attacks!!!!!! mwuahahhahahaha

 

What no down side? DC are going to be an auto include

[Morticon]

WHoooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo !!!!

 

Just been "confirmed" that Rage is just +2 attacks!!!!!! mwuahahhahahaha

 

What no down side? DC are going to be an auto include

 

 

For us and anyone who can ally with us.

[Gabriel1303]

WHoooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooo !!!!

 

Just been "confirmed" that Rage is just +2 attacks!!!!!! mwuahahhahahaha

 

What no down side? DC are going to be an auto include

 

 

For us and anyone who can ally with us.

 

Yeah i can see all my mates including them now :thanks:

[Blindhamster]

Power Axes are AP2, +1S and Init 1. There are rules for Mauls and Lances. If it's unspecified in the Codex you must look at the model to know what kind of power weapon it is, if it already has special rules in the Codex then it's just AP3 and gains no other benefits from its type.

 

This mean Dante just gets his reroll and is now only AP3? or is he now S6 Init1 (making his base I of 6 useless)

 

I'm assuming it'll be the former, trying to decide if I'm happy about it ^_^ I'd have liked I6 AP2 :P but that was never going to happen (and yes... I use Dante pretty regularly)

[appiah4]

Regarding the Power Axe being I1, at first I didn't care at all because I have no models armed with one.

 

Then I was like, wait a minute..

 

So I went and double checked..

 

And you know what I found?

 

Ok, brace yourselves:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads...6215_103357.jpg

 

Ladies and gentlemen, meet the most miserable Space Marine in the whole goddamn 40K universe.

 

He even has a picture of him in our codex. Go ahead and check it out, it's in there. I modelled him after that picture.

 

It's almost as if GW was :cussing with us. "Let's include a photo of the most useless unit we can think of.. Oh yeah, this will be so funny in a year!"

[khurdur]

Are we sure power axes are Init 1? is seems kind of silly, I mean power swords are Ap3, normal init, powefists and hammers double S, Ap2, Init 1, it stands to reason that Power axes with +1 S, AP2 just reduce your initiative, but NOT to 1....

 

I want my Sang guard to have power axes, to be able to kill anything inc. terminators, but only die to powerfists.

By the way, DC are shaping up to be da :)...+2 attacks and no diss...Last edition it was just bad. Looks like now it will be only good. Can't they put in both together??

[JamesI]

Ok, seems like its time to put jump packs back on my DC. Break out the magnets...

 

On the other hand, Initiative 1 for power axes? Thats horrible. I hope that doesn't apply to Dante, everyone else in my army pretty much has swords anyway.

[knife&fork]

Ok, seems like its time to put jump packs back on my DC. Break out the magnets...

 

On the other hand, Initiative 1 for power axes? Thats horrible. I hope that doesn't apply to Dante, everyone else in my army pretty much has swords anyway.

 

Reduced initiative, not 1.

 

Still bad though, because that high I is one of the things that makes him so useful in CC.

 

But then again, maybe it doesn't matter in the end with all the other small changes.

[JamesI]

Ok, seems like its time to put jump packs back on my DC. Break out the magnets...

 

On the other hand, Initiative 1 for power axes? Thats horrible. I hope that doesn't apply to Dante, everyone else in my army pretty much has swords anyway.

 

Reduced initiative, not 1.

 

Still bad though, because that high I is one of the things that makes him so useful in CC.

 

But then again, maybe it doesn't matter in the end with all the other small changes.

 

According to recent rumors, Axes have the same Initiative reduction as fists. Which could make Dante useless (sadly I know I'll be accused of modeling for advantage since I modeled my Dante with a sword instead of an axe because in 5th edition, who cares same effect).

[knife&fork]

According to recent rumors, Axes have the same Initiative reduction as fists. Which could make Dante useless (sadly I know I'll be accused of modeling for advantage since I modeled my Dante with a sword instead of an axe because in 5th edition, who cares same effect).

 

- Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition.

- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)

- Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition)

[Chaplain Admetus]

Since 1 seems to be bandied around a lot, maybe -1 to initiative? if so then that's easily offset by the priests, assuming furious charge remains the same. If Dante suddenly becomes rubbish, I'll be unimpressed...literally just finished painting mine and bought a unit of sanguinary guard to use with him....

[Leksington]

- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)

This raises more questions than gives answers. (why can't these rumor mongers paint a clear picture when they are leaking these things?)

• Was the parry 5+ invul save rumor false?
  
• Do Axes get an extra attack from a pistol?
  
• How much is the initiative reduction for axes so that its value is equal to that of power swords, lightning claws and the Glaive Encarmines (yet less valuable than powerfists)?
  
• Are Glaive Encamines swords? Axes? Or something else entirely? And how do they reconcile that they have both swords and axes in the SG kit?
  
• Is a force weapon a Sword, an Axe, or something else?
  
• How about a Crozius Arcanum?
  
• What does does this do to the weapons of Dante, Astorath, and Lemartes?
  

 

This rumor left me feeling like I know less about 6th edition!

[JamesI]

I have heard from a couple different sources that axes are I1. I really hope they are wrong.

 

It is possible Dante and Astorath will be unaffected due to being special characters. It is also possible both are I1 from now on.

[Gregornet]

Time to finish painting death company! I love using DC and now they are controllable! Jump packs what!

[Lord Ragnarok]

Ouch- small nerf just in.

 

Pref Enemy is to hit and to wound reroll of 1s. Not straight reroll.

 

I think a few SW's would attest that is still pretty good.

[Robbie1984]

I have heard from a couple different sources that axes are I1. I really hope they are wrong.

 

It is possible Dante and Astorath will be unaffected due to being special characters. It is also possible both are I1 from now on.

 

This would suck alot. 2 of our best CC characters made useless, and I cant think of many other armys that have 2 main CC chars both armed with Axes.

 

I would still take Astorath just due to the fact he removes the DC limit, but Dante would get 0 table time for me if he is indeed reduced to I1

[liberate_tutame]

Chappy's are still a better choice for DC than Libbies, since Litanies of Hate is a straight reroll and works when assaulting vehicles as well. Unless the new Pref enemy also works against vehicles that is...