Deschenus Maximus Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 The init boost for Orks didn't really matter, as everything except IG still hit them first. For BA, it is a MASSIVE nerf. I think too mitigate this, giving our power fist sergeants a storm shield will be a must: that way he can challenge other power fist/weapon sergeants to a duel - the rest of the squad will have to count on our armour and reduced FnP to see us through. That said, that's an extra 20 pts per squad... expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodReavers Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I could justify the 50-75 points for a priest because i usually spread it between two squads. +25 points for FNP and FC was worth it. Now? If rumors are true.. I dread to think of what I'm going to do. I suffered through the .pdf days and stayed strong with my blood angels because I was able to make them work with Dante and Corbulo, the first time I ever used special characters. I just can't believe they are getting rid of something that blood angels had since 1996, over 16 years! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 So the only leaks I've read states that "battle brother allies" can share IC's and psypowers. Has someone/thing explicitly stated that abilities like preists grails and GK grandmaster bonuses also cross over? Seems to me that if not its entirely likely (and fluffy) that such abilities won't work inter Codex. Most such special rules effecting other armies units would make little sense, while I realise GW is not beyond such foolishness can you imagine any reason why the presence of the primarchs blood (or one of the vessels that are used to hold it) would have any impact on guardsmen or spacewolves say? Even if the rulebook appears to permit it (which like I say I've yet to see reported specifically) I think there is a good chance the faq will state that priests only work on BA (tho I'm not discounting GW sillyness). Also Drunken Angel grey knights have no battlebrothers on the leaked chart (photo from book), so none of those silly combos are possible. I belive we have wolves, darkangels and imperial guard listed as BFF. As for army nerfs, the only one that really stings is loosing I5 on the charge, but tbh it was a little OTT in the eyes of most of our enemies I think, as was the 4+ fnp. Assault marines took a bit of a nerfing I guess but they are still perfectly good for 18pts a pop I think, and now our elite choppy units that were always supposed to be doing most of the heavy lifting became super badass. Jump pack lists will have to bring along atleast a unit or 2 (or 3 or 4....) Of death co/vanguard/sanguard and use the basic assault marines more like flying tac squads (scoring & board control) rather than relying on them as a primary means of kicking ass. That said with fnp vs all but fists and wounding marines on a 3 they are still marines+ in cc. Worse things have happened ;-). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 On that note, Vanguard vets are going to be massively easier to use with the 2D6 charge range with reroll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Also I was thinking, seeing as how countering 2+ Sv units seems like its going to be one of the new must address problems for all commers lists it might be worth experimenting with combat squadded twin plasma gun assault squads? One team with 2 the 2 plasma & the other tooled for combat with the Sgt. Always seemed like a bad idea under 5th as you generally didn't want to loose out on melta guns because of the silly mech, and assault marines with a priest were so potent that people never really considered bringing rapid fire weapons to be an option. Given plasma looks like it will now be A. One of the best ways to deal with the inevitable flood of terminators coming and B. Look prety reasonable for dealing with av10-12 seems like it might be worth playing around with now our primary troop choice isn't going to be borderline beardy cheese in cc anymore? Hope that made some sense its 4am here and I should really go for my rest cycle... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 On that note, Vanguard vets are going to be massively easier to use with the 2D6 charge range with reroll. "holy heroic intervention batman!" As if I needed more reason to love the borderline cheating gits, I know someone's footdar are not going to be happy! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 as i have had it explained to me at LGS, only fleet allows you to reroll the assault dice. jump infantry roll 3d6 and discard the low dice. mephiston on the other hand will be able to do both when he uses wings. he should always be in range now. edit: never mind, checked things out on my own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 On that note, Vanguard vets are going to be massively easier to use with the 2D6 charge range with reroll. "holy heroic intervention batman!" :lol: holeeee....wowzers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The loss of the I bonus from Furious Charge is going to sting a bit (well, a lot), but the S bonus is still a nice thing to have. And our units that have FC are usually sporting the now more common FNP. We just gotta rely on Power Armour and FNP more now, even when charging. Anyone else thinking that Blood Talon DC Dreads are going to be absolute monsters? 6 attacks on the charge, coupled with no forced movement (as far as we know right now). And more hits mean more wounds and more wounds mean even more wounds! Yar yar! :lol: Because of all the buffs our DC got, scooping those 5 members for the Dread isn't going to hurt one bit either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Feel No Pain will still be infinitely useful to shooty squads taking lots of flak, especially Sternguard. Sternguard + Tycho + Priest w/ Combi-Plasma footslogging with a squad of Tacticals on each side (Preferrably with PF, Plasmagun, Multimelta) will be a glorious shooting base. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Latest transport rumours may mean trouble for BA :lol: Still looking for comfirmation however: Originally Posted by Minsc (Warseer)In 5th you could move 12", dissembark and shoot. (and charge if the transport was an assault vehicle.) In 6th you can move 6", dissembark and shoot. You can't charge if the transport has moved, even if it's an assault vehicle. In 5th, you could dissembark, move 6", shoot and assault. in 6th, you can dissembark, move 6" shoot, but not assault, unless the vehicle is an assault vehicle. There is a huge difference, and the meta for transports will never be the same. To me it's clear that GW has sold enough transports in 5th, so they made them worse for shooters, and nigh-useless for melee-units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This would really be an absolutely braindead change... hope thats not true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Anyone else think this will slow the game down somewhat and if I recall correctly, wasn't one of the main points about changing the second edition to the third all about speeding the game up? To me, this is giving me flashbacks of the second edition (which isn't entirely a bad thing...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 well, now that your LR can be glanced to death by a squad of necron warriors, and it's main selling point was apparently singled out and purposefully nerfed into non-existence, GW just made it clear they don't want you to take one, or ever buy another one. it would be nice if this somehow made the game cheaper, since i don't have to pay for a transport, but really it doesn't, i will have to fill my list out with models and a tac box is over priced as well. but more importantly, the SR is junk then. has to stay in reserve, you'll never be able to assault out of it, have to use skies of blood basically? so the only SM flier worth having is the cheaper storm talon? and we have to take allied marines to get it... nice. looks like i'll be taking necron fliers as allies afterall... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Very dubious of this, its such a game changing thing that I would have thought it would have come to light before now. Who knows? If its true I am glad my guys have magnetized jump packs (Death Co included) Fingers crossed its a blag! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Latest transport rumours may mean trouble for BA :) Still looking for comfirmation however: Originally Posted by Minsc (Warseer)In 5th you could move 12", dissembark and shoot. (and charge if the transport was an assault vehicle.) In 6th you can move 6", dissembark and shoot. You can't charge if the transport has moved, even if it's an assault vehicle. In 5th, you could dissembark, move 6", shoot and assault. in 6th, you can dissembark, move 6" shoot, but not assault, unless the vehicle is an assault vehicle. There is a huge difference, and the meta for transports will never be the same. To me it's clear that GW has sold enough transports in 5th, so they made them worse for shooters, and nigh-useless for melee-units. I'd like to see transports cleared up as well. I'm under the impression that what you posted was true. Plus, you don't get to disembark 2 inches away. However you get a 6 inch move (regardless of whether the transport moved or not). That's the impression that I get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'm so glad I never bought a single transport through 5th Edition. I always planned for it, always castrated. Infantry, walkers and tanks forever! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well, that seems to have clinched it. My DC are getting jump packs again. My Mech army (which did not exist until the 5th edition codex) goes back on the shelf and I will be mostly jumpers. Hail Dante or Astorath. Though I am excited Lemartes is returning to my lists... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 To be fair I tend to have more 'fun' games when using majority of jump infantry, bit gutted about the raven if its true though. Hurry up rule book!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Rule book page 79 (apparently). And for the land raider and other vehicles with assault ramps it means the squad inside can charge after getting out. I dont think its as "braindead" as purposely done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 But does that mean that our jumpers can use their full 12" movement if the raven doesn't move? +3D6 charge movement(discard the lowest) this could make up for the loss of a moving vehicle. Well, one turn boosting, one turn hovering, assault. Seems pretty cool to me. And we can now move zoom over the battefield and still fire the Multimelta! Sucks for raiders, though. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The new transport rules are sorely overdue IMHO, now you will have to think more carefully and support your moves if you want to ram your mech down the enemys throat. I think it will remain viable tho, just that it will become just another style of list and not the be all and end all of the game. While it seems like everything is now really easy to glance to death your still looking at atleast 3-5 hits per transport to wreck them with torrent attacks (which are often the same weapons you dont want shooting at your exposed manz instead), if you have 4 or 5 razors/rhino's with supporting armour thats going to make it very hard work for most ballanced armies to stop on turn 1 & 2. In many respects armour actually got more survivable during the opening turns, I think more perhaps even than before it will be viable to forgoe shooting to rhino rush and rely on the av to soak a large volume of the enemys reactionary fire before disembarking to do whatever you had in mind for them the turn after. 6" move and 2d6 assault isnt too shabby disembarking from a transport, you just need to factor the previous turns move into your plan. Realisticly speaking this seems much closer to real life APC tactics, where the apc is there to provide extra protection and mobility for the troops so they can get where they need to be, rather than to function as an outright assault vehicle (landraiders excepted). Also more significantly, hybryd mech seems much much more viable now. The torrent of glancing attacks everyone is so worried about are the same weapons that are good at munching med/heavy infantry (i.e. space marines) so if one were to for instance support the transports with JP units the enemy is going to have a much harder time with fire priority (de mech the rhino squad or whittle down the assault squad/death company floating alongside?). couple that with a nice av2 unit like sanguard or termies and you can do the same thing to their heavy anti armour weapons (try to pop the raider/vindicator/whatever or thin out the ballbusters on foot/wing that you know you might struggle to counter in CC?). My hope/impression is that the meta for 6th is going to move towards a healthy ballance of mech/mobile, foot and sv2+, with a simmilar ballance between heavy low ap fire, med st. torrent fire and basic anti inf like bolters. Having some decently mobile units still looks like a priority but now there appears to be a need to have some (usually) slow resiliant hardass units and tactical support (basic troops). Naturally theres a danger it might turn into terminator spam 6th ed but I reckon so long as you can no longer assault out of a moving raider/raven their slowness & cost will leave them very vunerable to well ballanced all commers lists (who naturally are going to be packing alot more mobile plasma and the like than they did in 5th as a counter). Time will tell I suppose but I've very optimistic :lol: Edit: Ok so looks like you can still charge from a raider my bad, with the changes to survivability and more tactical approach needed with the new movement however hopefully we still wont see a return to 4th ed raider rush spam... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 +3D6 charge movement(discard the lowest) 3d6 rumour was debunked as far as Im aware Snorri. JP only have reroll assault range. Could be wrong. James? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The new transport rules are sorely overdue IMHO, now you will have to think more carefully and support your moves if you want to ram your mech down the enemys throat. I think it will remain viable tho, just that it will become just another style of list and not the be all and end all of the game. Im currently in the entirely unsure camp. This means that when you have first turn, unless your vehicle is destroyed in turn 1 enemy shooting (and assuming we dont have 4th ed entanglement) then we are looking to be able to charge by 3rd turn soonest (irrespective of range to/from enemy). If, best case scenario, a wreck doesnt cause entanglement in following turn, then sure, maybe we'll get a 2nd turn charge like usual. All depends on the intricacies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 well, with raiders apparently being able to move 18" in the first turn, do you charge forward as fast as possible, only getting a single shot, hope you survive a turn of shooting and charge out? same with SR. actually, now the SR seems alright if you think about it, zoom, unload as a bombing run, charge next turn, so, still a second turn charge, but you have to weather shooting, an you're probably not going to be in cover, even if you run, because you are deep striking basically. i don't know, i'm glad i don't run a heavy mech list, but it's a bummer either way that the few vehicles i do have probably won't see the table again until i figure this out... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/17/#findComment-3097719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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