Morticon Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 If power weapons are reduced to affecting only AV3 then what does that mean for artificer armour? Sanguinary Guard, The Sanguinor, Mephiston all wear it. Does that make them virtually immune to power weapons? Will death company or any unit within 6 inches of a Sanguinary Priest/ Novitiate now get feel no pain against AV3 power weapons?Will this now mean weapon strength is more important. S5 I5 FC attacks and feel no pain against GK's power weapons? I'll take that thanks even with reduced efficiency on standard power weapons. But keep in mind that there are rumors suggesting that force weapons are switching from instant kill to a strength bonus. If true, it is likely that GK would be wounding on a 2+. Its really, really worrying actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 If power weapons are reduced to affecting only AV3 then what does that mean for artificer armour? Sanguinary Guard, The Sanguinor, Mephiston all wear it. Does that make them virtually immune to power weapons? Will death company or any unit within 6 inches of a Sanguinary Priest/ Novitiate now get feel no pain against AV3 power weapons?Will this now mean weapon strength is more important. S5 I5 FC attacks and feel no pain against GK's power weapons? I'll take that thanks even with reduced efficiency on standard power weapons. But keep in mind that there are rumors suggesting that force weapons are switching from instant kill to a strength bonus. If true, it is likely that GK would be wounding on a 2+. Its really, really worrying actually. Yep, free I6/wounding on a 2+/AP2 Force weapons vs other armies termies I4/wounding on a 4+/AP3 power weapons? That may well be the last straw driving me to another hobby (or an older version of W40k). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 you know guys the str bonus thing in the rumors probably comes from the fact that GK actualy can [unlike any other army in w40k] stack psychic powers . So yeah technicly they can be i6 str 6 3A with counter attack[from GM] , but that is 2 HQs 2 psychic powers cast . of course that something like that would kill 5 terminators . If not then GK are runing around with str 8 i6 meq ID weapons of doom and I can promise you that there will be builds with 3 full interceptors and calidus in 6th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thought I'd add my 2p's worth - trying to think about the effects on BAs but also more widely so that it doesn't turn into a complete one-sided wishlist :lol: . Also, I'm semi going off on some of the rumours that have circulated over the last few months, and these are all more of a "write out loud" thing rather than a genuine desire to have them come true (as my ideas would need refinement). - The option to either Run/Shoot OR Assault from Deep Strike. With the rumours of their being pre-measuring and random charge distances, things like Heroic Intervention and CSM Lesser Daemons (at least for now) could get a re-roll for their charge for example. As with all things, there should perhaps be certain restrictions according to individual books - GK's Teleport Shunt being the one that immediately springs to mind. As others have mentioned, I think the best way to lessen dependency on Mech, and also to reduce it's potency, is not to nerf it considerably but to just make close assault that much more effective. Even with DoA versus IG Mech gunline, you're still having to take a turn of potentially punishing fire, or fire and manoeuvre before you get the chance to get stuck in. I also feel slightly sad every time I read a Horus Heresy book, or Space Marine book when whatever Chapter deploys via Drop-Pod. The actual fluff is so much more realistic than the reality of the current game mechanic. Still, this might end up being too harsh with Inertial Guidance Systems. - Snipers. Increase the range to 48" and allow one in five hits to be chosen by the shooting player. So yes, you could try to pick out a unit champion, IC or whatever but surely that's the point of having a long range ballistic weapon with an array of targeting systems. It would mean having to take squads of 10 to get enough of a chance, but anything that increases the utility of this quite limited unit would be much appreciated. - Walkers and MCs get some form of WFB Thunder-Stomp equivalent. So not just us but Nids, Eldar, DE, Daemons and CSM, GKs etc get a closer representation of what large war machine or beasties should be in terms of their effectiveness. Being left with two attacks after the charge for most Dread variants leaves it bogged down for way too long given it's size, strength, weaponry and speed, particularly if you're lucky enough to find a fight against a unit that technically can't hurt it. Exception to this would maybe be Blood Talon Dreads, as the additional attacks on top of the frappe weapon would be pretty excessive. Not sure how this would be best represented, but it's the idea that counts ;) . - Open-topped/Assault vehicles allowing disembarking between 12"-18" with some variation to Dangerous Terrain checks for the unit getting out. This would also add benefits to the likes of Orks, DE, Necrons etc but would add extra utility to the likes of Land Raiders and Stormravens, at some form of risk factor to the unit. So, this not a wish list, but merely an open-ended series of thoughts to see if they would be workable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Oh, and being able to Combat Squad from normal vehicles, not just Drop Pods - but that will never happen :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Will death company or any unit within 6 inches of a Sanguinary Priest/ Novitiate now get feel no pain against AV3 power weapons? There are rumors that FNP is negated by AP1, AP, and AP3 weapons. A slight nerf, but I'll take it so that Sanguinary Guard and Terminators are tough as nails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Luckily there is almost no AP3 weapons in the game, (except for the new PW's/Rending weapons) otherwise that could be quite annoying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3078878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selleck Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I would love that Chaplains, once again, could control rage in DC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Some things I'd hope for: - New wording in the Rage rules (german version)...because right now, I have to assault the next unit in LoS. :) - If this new PW thing turns out to be true, they'd better get our chainswords some AP as well. - None of these rumoured tiers of a USR's effectiveness...you know, Eternal Warrior(2) beats instant Death(1) or Feel no Pain(1) works on 5+ and such. I really need that 4+ roll, or else half of my army would be dead within the first turn! Last time against Dark Eldar, my Captain stood 3(!) gameturns, 6 combat phases, against a unit of them grotesque monsters(not sure about the real name here...called Grotesque in german) and only survived because I made 100% of my FnP rolls in combination with his armour save. Quit epic. :D To come to the point, I think the actual rules concerning these USR are fine. You know some HQ can't be insta-killed and you're set. With the new stuff, you always have to remember what kind of tier the USR has, or look it up every time you need it. Quite time consuming...but more importantly, it feels like you got cheated. An Eternal Warrior is an Eternal Warrior for a reason. - Some flyer rules also apply to the Stormraven. being able to move 12", disembark, fire all your guns at once and charge :wub: (unlikely!) - New sniper rules. I'd say half of the wounds made can be allocated by the controlling gamer with increased range. Or else: change it back so that snipers hit on a 2+. :lol: Would make me actually use them again. - Less tanks, more infantry. No really spammable units(quite difficult, I know but they're there to work, aren't they?!) More intense CC phase, so that anyone who actually spams tanks is seriously disadvantaged. (you might have noticed that I don't like spam lists :lol:) - No random psychic powers(this came up...but I doubt it). - no change within the gamer turn order...which means it's movement, shooting/psychic powers and after that, CC. No need to fix what ain't broken! - New rapid fire weapon rules...so far, bolters are quite mediocre against hordes and really bad against MEQ armies, but I like teh bolter and I'd like to field them without having to worry about their effectiveness. Well...that's certainly not everything, but all I can think of right now. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm not actually that fussy provided we don't get nerfed (or if we do, then everyone gets nerfed...). That said, * I would like our Captains to be worth taking again * Wound allocation to be sorted out (i.e less chance for shenanigans) * I'd rather not have a percentage-based Force Organisation chart (ala second edition) as this is open to abuse (personal experience) * Apocalypse games to be just as awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Don't change rapid fire rules, but bring back the 2nd ed rule where marines can fire twice if stationary.... So that would be 4 shots at under 12 inches per boltgun armed marine if you chose to stand and blaze away. This would bring the bolter back to being a useful weapon but not send IG gunlines overboard... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Not specific to BA but certainly more relevant than to most other Chapters, I would like to see Walkers have some way of standing up to Monstrous Creatures in assault. With high Strenght, a decent number of attacks and 2d6 armour penetration it's rare to see such a combat last more than one round or go in favour of anything other than the MC. Surely it should be a little more even? Perhaps the MC only gets the extra armour pen on targets without a WS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinius Chosen Wing Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 My hOpes are that everyone doesn't flip out like WFB's 8th Ed. Sure the rules will be different and we may have to chop and change but if you let the dust settle for a few months the initial comaints pretty much proved false and it wasn't that bad. Just don't stress and work into a frenzy before it is even realesed. Keep the black rage on the table :) Also percentages aren't a problem takes nothing to work out. I would love however to see the infantry make a bit of a comeback without the total dependence on transports. It feels a little like war machine with all the dreads and big tanks buzzing about with the occasional squad who hops out and back in again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 My hOpes are that everyone doesn't flip out like WFB's 8th Ed Ive been around for about 4 changes now (2->3, 3-> 3.5, 3.5->4, 4->5) and one thing i've noticed is that people flip ....big time. Pushing them out of their comfort zones is what just upsets people. They grow to love their army and their playstyle and define their gaming experience based on that (not a bad/good thing- just a thing). But we do lose people from the hobby, and more often than not from the army itself. So, there will be a surefire mixing up of the status quo in the BA forum im sure! But, I find that change is part of the hobby. Every time theres a new rules change (either RB or Dex) i look at it like I just started a new excited hobby! Obvs there are things that will annoy me, but I always look at it through fresh eyes and just try discard all knowledge/comparison to the preceding edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 And then a new player comes in and points out something that the more 'senior' players have simply missed because they just assumed something... "Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings..." springs to mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 About bolters: I would really like to be able to assault after shooting rapid fire weapons again. It just doesn't make sense that you can't right now, and it makes Tacticals that much worse than they need to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 A change to a more balanced field would be nice. 7th ed fantasy had Daemons, Dark Elves and Vampires as uber-cheese and practically nothing could touch them, then 8th Ed levelled the playing field. Hopefully something similar will happen to 40k. Much as part of me would love to see GK and IG catapulted straight to the bottom of the heap, I'd rather everything was more balanced. I don't want FnP to get drastically worse, at any rate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3079653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Personally I find the morale rules very cumbersome, with lots of variations on the 'Know no fear' 'Fearless' responses which could probably just be sorted out with a wider range of morale values. I would then expect Blood Angels rarely yo come under the demoralised rule (whatever it was). The after combat book keeping seems at odds with the fast play of the other phases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3080361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Personally I find the morale rules very cumbersome, with lots of variations on the 'Know no fear' 'Fearless' responses which could probably just be sorted out with a wider range of morale values. I would then expect Blood Angels rarely yo come under the demoralised rule (whatever it was). The after combat book keeping seems at odds with the fast play of the other phases. How is it exactly that adding MORE statistics to the game equates faster game play? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3080446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Personally I find the morale rules very cumbersome, with lots of variations on the 'Know no fear' 'Fearless' responses which could probably just be sorted out with a wider range of morale values. I would then expect Blood Angels rarely yo come under the demoralised rule (whatever it was). The after combat book keeping seems at odds with the fast play of the other phases. How is it exactly that adding MORE statistics to the game equates faster game play? I think he's suggesting that the Ld scores should be a little more varied. Everything seems to be clustered around the 7-8 range or is a straight 10 (or Fearless). Very little variation. A simple switch to a 2-12 scale would help enormously and would fit well with a 2d6 morale check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3080584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I hope the Stormraven gets the new flyer rules such as Ariel Assault and Supersonic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3081399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 If power weapons are reduced to affecting only AV3 then what does that mean for artificer armour? Sanguinary Guard, The Sanguinor, Mephiston all wear it. Does that make them virtually immune to power weapons? Will death company or any unit within 6 inches of a Sanguinary Priest/ Novitiate now get feel no pain against AV3 power weapons?Will this now mean weapon strength is more important. S5 I5 FC attacks and feel no pain against GK's power weapons? I'll take that thanks even with reduced efficiency on standard power weapons. But keep in mind that there are rumors suggesting that force weapons are switching from instant kill to a strength bonus. If true, it is likely that GK would be wounding on a 2+. Its really, really worrying actually. I put no faith in that rumour what would be the point of hammerhand if all we need to do to get a str bonus is have every termie unit carry a banner and auto-activtae the NFW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3081444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 A change to the Rage rules would be nice. I quite like taking Death Company and would like to do so at tournaments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3081906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hope? Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3081942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 A change to the Rage rules would be nice. I quite like taking Death Company and would like to do so at tournaments. This. I'm a Death Company fanatic and run them pretty much always. What they do with Rage in 6th Edition is the thing I look forward to most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/2/#findComment-3081953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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