appiah4 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Lightning Claw + Meltabomb for every sergeant for me. Also, a Storm Shield wherever and whenever possible, a Combi-Plasma wherever it's not an available choice. Storm Shields and Lightning Claws are winners in 6th E. Time to model some new Sergeants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Disembark rules are really different. Haven't read the above, but; -You disembark a model in base contact with access point, move it so wholly within 6" of access point. rinse repeat. -cannot charge in subsequent assault phase to disembarking - even if vehicle stationary! -assault ramps and opentopped override the above sentence - you can charge. -cannot disembark if vehicle moved more than 6" -cannot score or contest objectives if embarked in a vehicle. The vehicle itself cannot score or contest unless it's a Heavy support choice in mission 3 or a fast attack in mission 4. Sorry no throwing Meltas. Best you get is throwing the 8" Str6AP4 krak grenade from one model per unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wow, it is now entirely futile to try to combine razorbacks with any kind of assault unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What's nice about Plasma Pistols/Infernus on sarges is they can 'snipe' models. 6 to hit, you allocate the wound. If you allocate to an opposing character, he gets a 4+ look out sir. opposing IC is look out save on 2+ Oh and just for fun and the :cuss factor, Wraithlords are characters and can issue challenges. edit: what's bad about transports too, is by my reading if your transport is destroyed say by opponent shooting, your unit disembarks, and is still subject to 'cannot charge in their subsequent assault phase' which rules out you charging from your destroyed transport; so the "please blow my rhinos up for me!" isn't a valid 'tactic'. I do expect that part to cause a bit of confusion because it isn't really spelt out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 i'm still thinking srg gets a PF, since he'll probably have a SHP or elite chaplain or some such guy in the squad with a power weapon to eat challenges when need be? i don't know really. this is going to force people to take more special characters and then run them right at one another. is anyone going to start taking astorath and mephy, or mephy and sanguinor, or really mephy and anyone just to have two really big, scary characters out there challenging everyone? DC will have to have PW in the unit now, in addition to fists and TH, so that when the chaplain gets challenged and decides to sit it out, they will still have AP 3 attacks and such. hidden fists in BT and SW squads are now amazing. truly amazing. and every model in a wolf guard or chaos chosen/termi unit has the potential to be a character. it won't affect the non-assaulty armies too much, they can and will probably choose to have their guys sit it out if we issued a challenge. heck, challengess are basically a way of putting gear on a model then making him virtually immune to CC unless the unit gets wiped and runs. it will be interesting though, when it gets to the point that you start thinking. "ok, he's going to wipe out my guy in a challenge, or take out the whole squad, i have high LD, or i'm fearless, so i'm not going to get swept, maybe sacrifice dude to hold out for another turn and charge my other guys in?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm thinking meltabombs + storm shield. If meltabombs can be thrown, they are not only better than an IP, but much cheaper. Storm shield + FnP = plasma sponge sergeant. This very much so Vanguard Vets with their mix and match load out became a no brainer they can mess up even more stuff than ever on the drop either assault or shooting. Redundancy in lists is essential with focused fire and snipers able to pick off single expensive models. Meltabombs became the poor mans fist, a normal RAS or VV that got charged got 2 attacks back at S4 now its one S8 at WS 4. I will take that thanks, 4 meltabombs is 4 attacks back at S8 for 20 points spread over 4 models, much much better than a fist. The extra strength means we dont fear MC's or even Dreads as much anymore. Death Company Dreads with blood talons became very useful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Every Paladin is a character, ho hum. Not sure if that's a nerf or a buff, sleepy. From what I can see, and I see pretty good, rapid fire weapons don't get that 'double tap if stationary' that was rumored. Two shots at half the weapons range (so yes kraken rounds 15", Vengeance rounds 9" double tap) or one shot at max range, even if moving. Relentless just allows assault after shooting a rapid fire weapon. Vehicles suffer from Gets Hot. If plasma on a razorback rolls a one, roll a D6. on 1,2, or 3, take a glancing hit. ick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 All models with two pistols can fire both in the shooting phase! It's called 'Gunslinger'. Awesome. Now I can actually field my double Hand flamer model in my honor guard I built for fun :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What's nice about Plasma Pistols/Infernus on sarges is they can 'snipe' models. 6 to hit, you allocate the wound. If you allocate to an opposing character, he gets a 4+ look out sir. opposing IC is look out save on 2+ What makes me skeptical against IPs in assault squads is having to pick when we use the packs. Having a 6"(3" melta distance) seems like it's going to put you guy of range more often than not. I'd also like to point out that unless something has changed melta bombs are neither melta nor AP1, just s8+2d6. So they are not quite as amazing as one might first think. The glavie + PP gives you a power weapon, a much needed reroll, a 5+ invul in CC, and shooting with a bit of range and bite. All this without going totally nuts on the upgrade costs. I don't think it's wise trying to make sergeants into bullet sponges and overloading them with gear considering they still just have one wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Meltabombs are now AP1. they aren't Melta, they have the armourbane rule (2D6 pen in CC with vehicles). Unfortunately no 5+ invul in CC from power weapons, mastercrafted or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Meltabombs are now AP1. they aren't Melta, they have the armourbane rule (2D6 pen in CC with vehicles). Unfortunately no 5+ invul in CC from power weapons, mastercrafted or not. I see, so glavies are still the worst PW in the game :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am quite confused with how SR will work now, could you give some more specific info pls? How many HP it has? How dissembarking from it works? How far can it move? Thank you for info BT PS. not very happy with Mephiston nerf, 2powers for master librarian >.< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 is it possible that the perceived weakness of vehicles will cause people to take less anti-tank weapons and perhaps balance out a vehicle's survivability? i'm not sure, i'm already considering adding some PP to assault squads now that they can glance everything short of a LR to death now though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 3 HP, How dissembarking from it works? Same as above, but not if in Zooming mode How far can it move? Depends if zooming of hovering. (and indeed if it gets hover). Zoom combat = 18" Zoom cruising = 36" Otherwise hovering as fast skimmer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Depends if zooming of hovering. (and indeed if it gets hover). haha, i never even thought of that. if it didn't get hover, it will never get to use its assault ramps. how will skies of blood work? is it usable when in zoom mode? or just if its in hover and it goes flat out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yep. Stormraven has 3 HP. It has Flyer, Hover, and Transport rules. Models can only disembark from the Hovering Raven if it moved less than 6", and subsequently assault. Models disembarking must remain wholly within 6" of the base of the raven, even if they move more than 6" (eg jump packs) As a Flyer, it can either choose to 'zoom' or 'hover'. It must pick one of the two! Zoom has restrictions thusly. Combat speed 18", cruising of 36". Zooming flying can never move less than 18" (if forced to, it's wrecked) Zooming flying can only make a single pivot of up to 90 degrees on the spot before it moves. After that, has to move in a straight line. Ignores and doesn't take dangerous terrain tests, when enters from reserve board edge can enter from any angle. Cannot embark or disembark. It can fire up to 4 weapons at BS skills no matter what speed it moved if zooming and can only be hit by snap shots or skyfire weapons (hydras, flakk missiles which are str7 and fired from normal missile launchers, not cyclones/typhoons) and immune to templates and blasts.\/large blasts. can't be assaulted. You can switch to hover mode at the start of any movement phase including when you come on from reserve which turns your storm raven back into a fast skimmer for all purposes. So it can disembark/embark troops, but is then hit normally as a fast skimmer and is limited in the amount of weapons it can fire by the fast skimmer rules. IMPORTANT: A maximum of TWO Bloodstrike missiles can be fired per shooting phase and they do count towards the number of weapons fire. I have no idea how skies of blood will work with the new rules, I presume the FAQs will work out an interaction with the Zoom rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Heh I just re-read that post and the grammar is poor, really tired! will head to bed. Been fun learning the new rules, and everyone will have the book soon...it is a beauty! The inside cover is a double page color artwork of Blood Angels vs Orks :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 hey, in an absolute cheese question, does anyone think that since corb's grail specifies that other models take FNP on a +4 that will stand? like, maybe it would be FAQed to stand as it is rather than using errata. i seem to remember a few other times rules seemed out of whack, like the RAW didn't seem to match the RAI and they went with RAW because they didn't want to change the wording it seemed. corb would be in every list then, wouldn't he? but on a more serious note, does FNP bubble extend from transports still? or do they have to be out of the transport? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Disembark rules are really different. Haven't read the above, but; -You disembark a model in base contact with access point, move it so wholly within 6" of access point. rinse repeat. -cannot charge in subsequent assault phase to disembarking - even if vehicle stationary! -assault ramps and opentopped override the above sentence - you can charge. -cannot disembark if vehicle moved more than 6" -cannot score or contest objectives if embarked in a vehicle. The vehicle itself cannot score or contest unless it's a Heavy support choice in mission 3 or a fast attack in mission 4. Sorry no throwing Meltas. Best you get is throwing the 8" Str6AP4 krak grenade from one model per unit. So, even open-topped vehicles can no longer move X inches, disembark, and assault? You can only assault from an open topped vehicle if it was stationary? I ask because this makes a big difference to how we deal with two other combat oriented armies, Orks and Dark Eldar. It greatly lowers their effective threat range, meaning we have more freedom to manoevre around them. Flak missiles seem good anti-flyer tech, another good reason for a quad-ML dev squad. If a flyer can't move the necessary 18" its destroyed...does that mean that stunning or immobilising a flyer will cause it to go boom? I'd imagine so for immobilised, but stunning might not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Flak missiles seem good anti-flyer tech, another good reason for a quad-ML dev squad. If a flyer can't move the necessary 18" its destroyed...does that mean that stunning or immobilising a flyer will cause it to go boom? I'd imagine so for immobilised, but stunning might not. well, every flyer that can, will be taking the equivalent of extra armor, or a psychic power that ignore stunned/shaken. SR will be able to avoid this fate at least, as well as storm talons and the like i think. and don't necrons have something like it? also, it will come down to the wording. if a flyer in zoom is destroyed the moment it is stunned/immobilized, then it will be useful, because fortitude doesn't work until movement phase of the GK's turn, does it? and anyway, i'm thinking most flyers that are stunned will just be allowed to count as hovering their next turn and then not move at all because they are stunned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 So, even open-topped vehicles can no longer move X inches, disembark, and assault? You can only assault from an open topped vehicle if it was stationary? I ask because this makes a big difference to how we deal with two other combat oriented armies, Orks and Dark Eldar. It greatly lowers their effective threat range, meaning we have more freedom to manoevre around them. You can from open topped. They can move, up to 6", then disembark, move and charge. Basically the new rule of thumb in 6th is that nothing will move further for charges than 12" + 2d6" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3098962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Regarding sergeants.... This may seem a wee bit heretical, but maybe the best kit is no kit (or minimal) at all? Just use him as the squads' inexpensive fall guy/bullet-catcher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3099091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 All I know is that Sarge Lucius of my primary assault squad is going to be bashing down the door of the armoury for a Storm Shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3099101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Combine not being able to put half of my jumpers in reserves, with the nerf to effective charge range, and my DoA list just fell in the toilet. Ba-Whoosh! And you never made an assault through cover in all of 5th ed? :D Strange how worked up people are getting about the random charge range. I've played assault themed lists all of 5th ed and I'm very glad to have the potential extra 6" range in return for a small drawback that was present in the majority of the assault moves I have made anyway. Did you miss the first part which makes it physically impossible to run a DoA list? :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3099155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 -How do rapid fire weapons mounted on vehicles work? Does the plasmaback now get 1 las shot and 2 tl plasma shots at 24 inches, even when moving? Speaking of Plasmabacks, is it true that "Gets Hot" takes hull points off vehicles now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253536-your-hopes-for-6th-in-relations-to-ba/page/20/#findComment-3099171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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