Your hopes for 6th in relations to BA?

[Plague Angel]

I'm really not expecting a new codex any time soon, guys. We just got one.

[JamesI]

I'm really not expecting a new codex any time soon, guys. We just got one.

We're not looking at a new codex, but discussing what we want to see in the new edition. Our next codex is probably 4-5 years off at the soonest.

[Plague Angel]

Yes, but barring some impressive FAQ shifts, I wouldn't expect changes to individual things like Captains or cheaper weapons, etc.

[JamesI]

Yes, but barring some impressive FAQ shifts, I wouldn't expect changes to individual things like Captains or cheaper weapons, etc.

No, not likely. These things could happen in a FAQ when Codex Space Marines gets updated, but even then its unlikely.

[Deschenus Maximus]

People complain that vehicles are so powerful nowadays but I just dont see it

play an army without vehicles that isnt draigo wing .

 

Not really the fault of infantry being bad so much as 5th really requires you to be mobile for objective games. There are a couple of good foot armies: our own Jump lists, SM bike lists, Loganwing - but you will notice that all of those have one thing in common: they are fast, or in the case of Loganwing, tough and able to move and shoot. If all foot armies were like that, I bet we would see a lot less armour on the field, if for no other reason than having rhinos, razors and chimeras for every squad is pretty damned expensive, money-wise.

[the jeske]

Not really the fault of infantry being bad so much as 5th really requires you to be mobile for objective games.

ok my english doesnt go that far . how is infantry not bad without transport when without those said transports it is too slow for most games ?

 

 

our own Jump lists,

which is not good . DoA never was viable , lack of transports taking the shots and a one turn down time +random entry[or being shot 1+time when advencing if no Deep strike is used] makes it a for fun list . at best.

SM bike lists,

ok not going in to which version [because on is more or less build around 2 outflanking LR with TH/SS termis as core of the list] , the bike lists have the same problems as jump lists [+being unable to go up stairs/second lvl of buildings/etc] multi shot weapons hit them the same way they hit marines without transports[only marines to lose dudes have to lose their transport first] , but they cost more. they speed is only a theoretical [turbo boosting is fine for 2-3 squads or late objective grabing , but it does nothing for an army on a 4x6 board] asset , specialy if you end up on boards with terrain that doesnt block LoS .

 

Loganwing

a for fun list carried by Long Fangs and speeder cyclon spam . the same list with the same support units but with GH works better . + objective games[2/3 of all games] are a problems because of how slow it is .

 

If all foot armies were like that, I bet we would see a lot less armour on the field, if for no other reason than having rhinos, razors and chimeras for every squad is pretty damned expensive, money-wise.

how do slow armies with smaller troops that are easier to kill do good when 2/3 of all games are objective . the only list that is foot and doing semi good , is eldar [and even they dont play pure they spam walkers] . the list does ok , but doesnt work at under 1750 , making non viable for most europe tournaments .

[Leksington]

People complain that vehicles are so powerful nowadays but I just dont see it

play an army without vehicles that isnt draigo wing .

 

Not really the fault of infantry being bad so much as 5th really requires you to be mobile for objective games. There are a couple of good foot armies: our own Jump lists, SM bike lists, Loganwing - but you will notice that all of those have one thing in common: they are fast, or in the case of Loganwing, tough and able to move and shoot. If all foot armies were like that, I bet we would see a lot less armour on the field, if for no other reason than having rhinos, razors and chimeras for every squad is pretty damned expensive, money-wise.

Mobility may have a bit to do with it, but I think it simply has to do with transports being wildly under-costed (points wise :D )for what you get.

 

I imagine most vehicles will be just fine in 6th edition, but I hope cheap transports are getting a nerf.

[Shmoe]

I have to agree with lex on this. I also hope cheap transports get a slight nerf.

The problem isnt that foot slogging troops suck, the problem is there are so many ways to get your foot sloggers pushed forward that they become obsolete.

Take BA assault marines... they come with jump packs or a discount vehicle. But if you want the bare minimum.... they cost the same as if they had jump packs.

 

Actually.... I take it back, I do like having cheap transports. I hope they throw something in for the foot slogger. The standard bolt gun carrying, foot slogging troop.

[Plague Angel]

What sort of nerfs could cheap transports be given that aren't general vehicle nerfs?

[dswanick]

What sort of nerfs could cheap transports be given that aren't general vehicle nerfs?

Vehicle Damage Table modifiers:

AP1 - +1

Ordnance - +1

Open-topped - +1

Transport - +1

[Plague Angel]

That came to mind for me too, but I don't know enough about probabilities or game design to know how I feel about it. Might be worth playing with as a house rule, just to see how it flows, regardless.

[Deschenus Maximus]

ok my english doesnt go that far . how is infantry not bad without transport when without those said transports it is too slow for most games ?

 

I'm saying that the rules for infantry themselves don't make them bad - the 5th ed missions requiring you to be mobile make dismounted infantry bad. If the missions were changed so that you didn't need to be as mobile, you wouldn't need transports quite so much.

 

which is not good . DoA never was viable , lack of transports taking the shots and a one turn down time +random entry[or being shot 1+time when advencing if no Deep strike is used] makes it a for fun list . at best.

 

Agree pure DoA (deep-striking) is not viable for reasons you stated, but starting on the board works just fine as long as you have fire support. You will loose some dudes, but with 40 to 60 ASM making up your core, enough will get through short of unbelievable bad luck.

 

ok not going in to which version [because on is more or less build around 2 outflanking LR with TH/SS termis as core of the list] , the bike lists have the same problems as jump lists [+being unable to go up stairs/second lvl of buildings/etc] multi shot weapons hit them the same way they hit marines without transports[only marines to lose dudes have to lose their transport first] , but they cost more. they speed is only a theoretical [turbo boosting is fine for 2-3 squads or late objective grabing , but it does nothing for an army on a 4x6 board] asset , specialy if you end up on boards with terrain that doesnt block LoS .

 

They certainly are harder to play with than plain ol' Metal Bawkse marines, but that doesn't make them bad.

 

a for fun list carried by Long Fangs and speeder cyclon spam . the same list with the same support units but with GH works better . + objective games[2/3 of all games] are a problems because of how slow it is .

 

Out of the 3, I would agree that Loganwing is probably the weakest due to lack of speed. Still, you can contest far off objectives with cavalry while spamming crazy amounts of missiles. Not the best army out there, but there are definetely worse.

 

how do slow armies with smaller troops that are easier to kill do good when 2/3 of all games are objective . the only list that is foot and doing semi good , is eldar [and even they dont play pure they spam walkers] . the list does ok , but doesnt work at under 1750 , making non viable for most europe tournaments .

 

Footdar is aweful. How can you seriously say that jump BA, bike SM and Loganwing don't work at all and say that Footdar is doing semi-good?

[Mezkh]

Seems

[Malatox]

Hey all,

Has anyone else been thinking how Unleash Rage will be even better with the new rumoured rules? Assault phase leading onto the Shooting means that we will have re-rolls in that phase as well, due to the rumoured change to Preferred Enemy.

 

Malatox

[Sigismund's Fury]

The phases dont seem to be changing, the rumor was from the same person that had alot of info from the "pancake" edition. Still unleashed seems to be getting much better but remember that psychic powers will be getting some kind of over haul with alot of fingers pointing towards "random" powers

[Leksington]

The rumors seem all over the place (and sometimes contradictory) at this point so I'm losing faith in all of them, so take this with salt.

 

Since fast vehicles are one of the BA fortes, regarding vehicles and hull points:

 

-Hull points are for front AV14 vehicles. You use up a hull point to ignore any single damage result, including wrecked or distroyed. This is to prevent land raiders from being one shotted.

-A penetrating hit causes +1 to all subsequent damage rolls on that vehicle in that shooting phase.

-Extra armor negates 1 stunned result per turn.

-damage results stack. As in 5 shaken results in a turn would stack to cause a wreck. A shaken result after a weapon damage would cause immobilization. Et cetera.

-In combat

• stationary vehicles are auto hit
  
• if it moved 6" it is hit on 3+
  
• if it moved 12" it is hit on 5+
  
• Flat Out is hit on 6
  

-In shooting

• vehicles that moved flat out are at best hit on 4+
  
• flyers that moved flat out are only hit on a 6 (this seems to be a pretty big buff for a SR)
  

 

Edit: formatting

[Julius Firefocht]

The rumors seem all over the place (and sometimes contradictory) at this point so I'm losing faith in all of them, so take this with salt.

 

Since fast vehicles are one of the BA fortes, regarding vehicles and hull points:

 

-Hull points are for front AV14 vehicles. You use up a hull point to ignore any single damage result, including wrecked or distroyed. This is to prevent land raiders from being one shotted.

-A penetrating hit causes +1 to all subsequent damage rolls on that vehicle in that shooting phase.

-Extra armor negates 1 stunned result per turn.

-damage results stack. As in 5 shaken results in a turn would stack to cause a wreck. A shaken result after a weapon damage would cause immobilization. Et cetera.

-In combat

• stationary vehicles are auto hit
  
• if it moved 6" it is hit on 3+
  
• if it moved 12" it is hit on 5+
  
• Flat Out is hit on 6
  

-In shooting

• vehicles that moved flat out are at best hit on 4+
  
• flyers that moved flat out are only hit on a 6 (this seems to be a pretty big buff for a SR)
  

 

Edit: formatting

 

If the flyers are getting hit on 6s when they move flat out, I am going to stuff 11 Death Company and a Chaplain into my Stormraven for some choppy fun.

[Leksington]

If the flyers are getting hit on 6s when they move flat out, I am going to stuff 11 Death Company and a Chaplain into my Stormraven for some choppy fun.

It does sound juicy, but I imagine with the flyer rules, there might be anti-flyer weapons (maybe a new missile type, beside frag and krak). Maybe dogfighting rules that allow smaller craft like Stormtalons (who don't have PotMS) to dominate Stormravens.

 

But my purchase of a 2nd SR just before the price hike might prove to have been a wise investment.

[Drunken Angel]

If the flyers are getting hit on 6s when they move flat out, I am going to stuff 11 Death Company and a Chaplain into my Stormraven for some choppy fun.

It does sound juicy, but I imagine with the flyer rules, there might be anti-flyer weapons (maybe a new missile type, beside frag and krak). Maybe dogfighting rules that allow smaller craft like Stormtalons (who don't have PotMS) to dominate Stormravens.

 

But my purchase of a 2nd SR just before the price hike might prove to have been a wise investment.

 

+ One

 

I ordered another Storm Raven and if 2+ becomes what the rumour suggests then SG will be good finally. My third Sanguinary Guard squad are on their way.

Stormravens may become as durable as LR's on account of their speed and 2+ troops like SG are more durable.

I may put together a SG DC army list in Stormravens.

[DominicJ]

i think making rapid fire move and shoot at 24" would fix immobile infantry.

[Taranis]

My hopes for next edition is increased viability of terminators. I just painted 20. :P

[Robbie1984]

I just heard apparently rage now give a +2 attacks on the charge. Death company just got a big boost!!

[Morticon]

I just heard apparently rage now give a +2 attacks on the charge. Death company just got a big boost!!

 

 

I just got MENTAL giddy with reading that from Tan. I wonder what nerf though? ><;

 

Man- this isgonna be a BIG shake up if those WD rules Tanhausen just posted are true.

[Terrahawk]

That rage bonus sounds pretty damn sweet. ;)

 

Also I'm hoping the rumour about Jump Infantry re-rolling their charge distance turns out to be true. Not to forget Master-crafted power weapons giving a 5++ save for our Sang Guard.

 

Some pretty awesome stuff for our Infantry if these turn out to be true.

[Robbie1984]

Indeed, I've been lookin for an excuse to do a full death company army after finishing my DC stormraven, If these rumours are true, I might now have the reason. I do hope that means its no longer move towards the closest target as well...