Lorenzen Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Okay so the Escort craft rule allows the talon to escort something coming on from reserve, not deepstriking, not another talon and no more than one talon per unit if you have a unit of terminators with 1 talon as their escort, place them in reserves inside a storm eagle (separate unit, not a dedicated transport, fast attack slot) then attatch a talon to the eagle you can bypass the talons own rule about "more than one" is this an oversight on gw's behalf? assume tournament mentality with this question if you dont mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 For reference, this is the rule: "If a Stormtalon Gunship is kept in reserve, it can be assinged to escort any friendly unit in reserve with the following exceptions: - A Stormtalon cannot escort a unit arriving by Deep Strike. - One Stormtalon cannot escort another Stormtalon. - A maximum of one Stormtalon can escort each unit. ...etc...." Your question can be simplified: Can a Stormtalon escort a transport that contains a unit? The answer is, obviously, yes you can. Why? The transport and unit co-exist as a single unit, and since the Stormtalon is still escorting only one unit, you're good to go. This isn't an oversight in the slightest. You simply can't have two talons escorting a transported unit and the transport because they are one unit, and as per the third bullet point, you cannot have two talons escorting the same unit. Short Answer: No you can't have two Stormtalons escort one unit (unit and transport count as one), as stated in the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 can you reference where it states they count as one unit please? a squad of terminators (example) is one elites unit, a storm eagle (other example) is a fast attack unit.. if you look at page 66 it never says that they become "one unit" it just says the entire unit must be embarked.. page 67 dedicated transports "the only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with." again refering to them as separate units.. as does page 87 for the dedicated transports within the force organisation chart for things like dawn of war etc etc.. the only deviation from this i know of is the fact you can assault the passengers if the transport explodes. without reference to them co-existing as one unit, it cannot be simplified as the precedent atm is set that they are separate units.. and if you so wanted you could "escort" a character, a unit and a transport separatley but have 5 units appear via 1 dice roll.. as the talons are connected to a character, a unit and a vehicle separatley thus not contradicting their own rules.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 can you reference where it states they count as one unit please? I don't see where it matters. The rule, as quoted by Seahawk, states "it can be assinged to escort any friendly unit in reserve". It doesn't say that the unit has to be alone, or anything similar. It could be assaigned to escort a friendly unit called Marneus Calgar, who is attached to an Honor Guard, with an attached Chaplain, embarked in a Land Raider. And I see no reason, by the RAW, that another Talon couldn't be assigned to escort the Land Raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 it matters because if he can show a reference to the transport and the unit inside being 1 unit then i will agree with his deduction that only 1 talon may be attatched, but until that reference is provided i am of the opinion that as you have stated (and myself) that marneus, his mates, and his transport all count as SEPARATE units and thusly can have separate talons attatched to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 it matters because if he can show a reference to the transport and the unit inside being 1 unit then i will agree with his deduction that only 1 talon may be attatched, but until that reference is provided i am of the opinion that as you have stated (and myself) that marneus, his mates, and his transport all count as SEPARATE units and thusly can have separate talons attatched to them. Well, Marneus, Chaplain, and Honor Guard do form a single unit, per the IC rules on Pg.48 of the BRB. But a unit embarked in a transport still count as two seperate units that simply "co-exist" while the one is embarked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 yeah so 2 talons can fly escort duties.. one on the unit & one of the vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3076973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 yeah so 2 talons can fly escort duties.. one on the unit & one of the vehicle. From what i've read in the thread - yes. For the same reason that we deploy a transport and its occupants as 2 TROOP choices in Dawn Of War set up. It does sound like an oversight- but it does say two units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3077011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Checking the reserves rules, it doesnt state that they are considered the same unit, merely that they 'arrive together'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3077022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Oops, my bad. I thought the FAQ said they were considered one unit, this one: Q: Must passengers fire at the same target that theirvehicle is firing at? (p66) A: No, they are a separate unit (albeit they are temporarily co-existing with the vehicle) and so can fire at a different target. But it's the very opposite of what I thought! So then yes, a stormtalon can escort a unit and its transport. Still, I'd say no oversight whatsoever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3077130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Not an oversight- but prevents someone from outflanking a single scout unit accompanied by 5 or 6 talons... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3077337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Not an oversight- but prevents someone from outflanking a single scout unit accompanied by 5 or 6 talons... No, but a Scout squad, a LS Storm, and two StormTalons appears doable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3077339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "No, but a Scout squad, a LS Storm, and two StormTalons appears doable." BRING on the AIR CAV! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3078171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 screw scouts.. korsarro kahn and his biker command squad and an outflanking land raider full of termies backed by talons is where its at :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3078343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Or a land raider full of bikes and khan! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3078370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 We currently have a thread in Tactica Astartes on how best to use the Stormtalon, and have already discussed at great length whether bikes can go in a Land Raider. Lets keep this to the Stormtalon's rules and not get side tracked. Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3078411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dont have the rules in front of me, but can a stormraven carry an embarked unit AND a dreadnought? So that'd be 3x stormtalons that could be brought in as escort? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3079089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3079124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dont have the rules in front of me, but can a stormraven carry an embarked unit AND a dreadnought? So that'd be 3x stormtalons that could be brought in as escort? Except Stormravens are C:BA/C:GK, while Stormtalons are C:SM. So Apocalypse only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253570-storm-talon/#findComment-3079174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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