Wade Garrett Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The most far sighted and loyal? Insofar as far sighted and loyal means "can be relied on to do what Guilliman wants", sure. Unless you'd care to imply that Vulkan, Lion, the Khan, and Corax are all short sighted traitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Or not as far-sighted or loyal by Guilliman's standards and definitions as those specified. Unless you'd care to imply that not being the most of something(s) is the same as being the opposite of something(s). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 not being the most loyal of people usualy implies being the opposite of loyal, yes same with trustworthy. 'suppose it does depend on intonation he's not the most loyal of people he's not the most loyal of people Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Not really. People's definition of loyalty varies. People can be loyal, but seemingly not as loyal as how others define it. Guilliman himself is a prime example of this. He is loyal, but the Lion finds his loyalty to be rather self-serving. The whole story arc of this Imperium Secundus is, by its nature, an example of how people's definitions vary and how this variation influences their views of others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 not really? so intonation makes no difference whatsoever... that's just stoopid. fun isn't it, when people only take into account the vry first part of your post, completely disregarding everything that follows as non existant? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Intonation does and does not make a difference. To the Lion, Guilliman is not the most loyal in that, as Cormac pointed out, it seems the Lord of Ultramar is more concerned with surviving the Heresy rather than winning it, which can easily be seen as self-serving. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I wasn't disregarding, just not commenting on it. I could have quoted you, split it in half, and placed what I wrote under the first part and placed a general agreement under the other. Honestly, that is a hassle when using a phone, on the mobile site, which happens to be my primary connection to the B&C. So instead I posted the part that mattered and assumed you would understand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think that saying any of the 9 loyalist Primarchs were more loyal than the other 9 is...problematic. (obvious troll) Especially if the guy whose standards we're using and one of his most loyal bros couldn't be bothered to turn up at Terra until the shooting stopped, unlike the Khan! (/obvious troll) More seriously, I have trouble imagining a definition of far sighted that includes Ferrous Manus (Yeah, dude, that cybernetics addiction my Legion's got is kind of a bummer. I should do something about that. Maybe later) and Leman Russ (I have a cunning plan. Step one is getting in Angron's face and picking a fight. This is the best plan ever.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Well, the problem I always saw with "far sighted" people is that they were usually looking so far ahead, that they wouldn't see the cliff right in front of them until they walked off and held out a Wile. E. Coyote saign that said "Oh crap!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So what you're saying is . . . Wile E. Coyote is the most farsighted and loyal Primarch? No wonder Dorn misses him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So what you're saying is . . . Wile E. Coyote is the most farsighted and loyal Primarch? No wonder Dorn misses him. As far as I'm concerned this is now canon. Had the Acme Super Geniuses Legion been at Terra.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So what you're saying is . . . Wile E. Coyote is the most farsighted and loyal Primarch? No wonder Dorn misses him. As far as I'm concerned this is now canon. Had the Acme Super Geniuses Legion been at Terra.... I guess we only need answers about one missing Primarch now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 The other Primarch is Jensen Ackles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So what you're saying is . . . Wile E. Coyote is the most farsighted and loyal Primarch? No wonder Dorn misses him. As far as I'm concerned this is now canon. Had the Acme Super Geniuses Legion been at Terra.... Those anvils that Ferrus and Vulkan are always hammering on.... Acme anvils. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So what you're saying is . . . Wile E. Coyote is the most farsighted and loyal Primarch? No wonder Dorn misses him. As far as I'm concerned this is now canon. Had the Acme Super Geniuses Legion been at Terra.... Those anvils that Ferrus and Vulkan are always hammering on.... Acme anvils. It's the only thing they Have to remind them of their dear, departed brother . . . @Kol "I have fought monsters. Daemons. Angels. I have killed gods! Now you expect me to believe that those, those things were, and I want to make sure I got this next part right . . . Aliens!? Oh, I'm sorry, 'xenos.' I need a drink, that's what I need. I am going to get drunk and I am going to bang that remembrancer, because that just feels right." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You forgot the triple decker double bacon cheeseburger. With pie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 When Forge World releases his rules, they BETTER unlock Land Raider Impalas for Heavy Support and Fast Attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You know, that would make him the only Primarch to be raised with a brother. Granted, a fool psyker who comes dangerously close to the perils of the Warp about seventeen times, but you can't have everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 And he also got to vacation in two different summer locales of the warp and both he and his brother are Perpetuals. Not to mention his experience at daemon hunting makes him the perfect Primarch for the Grey Knights. See? It's all coming together! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You know, that would make him the only Primarch to be raised with a brother. Granted, a fool psyker who comes dangerously close to the perils of the Warp about seventeen times, but you can't have everything. Alpharius and Omegon? XX Legion? Hydra Dominatus? Any of this ringing any sort of bells? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 When Forge World releases his rules, they BETTER unlock Land Raider Impalas for Heavy Support and Fast Attack. Damn, snubbing the Predadaewoo? Preda-Dae-WOO DX Babeh babeeeeehhhh! http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/4807507/daewoo-dx-o.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You know, that would make him the only Primarch to be raised with a brother. Granted, a fool psyker who comes dangerously close to the perils of the Warp about seventeen times, but you can't have everything. Alpharius and Omegon? XX Legion? Hydra Dominatus? Any of this ringing any sort of bells? They aren't brothers. They're two halves of the same existence. Horus and Alparius Omegon are brothers. But not Alpharius and Omegon. How's that for a brain twister? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You know, that would make him the only Primarch to be raised with a brother. Granted, a fool psyker who comes dangerously close to the perils of the Warp about seventeen times, but you can't have everything. Alpharius and Omegon? XX Legion? Hydra Dominatus? Any of this ringing any sort of bells? . . . Nope, not a one. It's a curious thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Sorry I meant Loyal from a perspective of the Imperium and ideals of the Emperor. Vulkan is loyal but would place humanity over the Imperium, where as the loyal nature of the others was also slightly different. I'm wrong anyway. When I think about it, Guilliman counted only a few brothers as friends and they were all Warmaster material apart from Ferrus Manus, and he considered him very highly as one of his dauntless few. What I should have said is how Guilliman was only friends with those on his level. He's like an intellectual who just operates on a different wave length to others. Oh my, he's a 40K geek! Seems like he had a lot of respect for Perturabo too though. Due to his nature though it appears Perturabo wouldn't allow himself to be close to anyway. @Legatus; no I'm not referring to the Dauntless few but there is a little cross over. Guilliman remarks about his only friends among the Primarchs being Sanguinius, Horus, Dorn and Ferrus Manus, yet adds Russ to his Dauntless Few in a separate introspection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 He runs with the other high achievers, people who aren't afraid of others' accomplishments. Fulgrim might've been there too, if he wasn't so obsessed and insecure in his search for perfection. Guilliman, being a rational person, feels that, while Russ might be culturally too wide apart from him (qualitatively speaking), he's one of the best at what he does. And what he does is still left unexplained =p The Blue Daddy shows the same kind of respect for the Khan, though he mentions his unpredictability, but it still goes to show how reasonable a guy he is. On Perturabo, Angel Exterminatus seems to imply that the Iron Primarch would've welcomed his brothers' approach with open arms, he's truly hurt by having his Legion used in such a way. Likewise Guilliman felt that need to excuse himself for his accomplishments when he thought of Perturabo and, being his usual, socially mild-self, he couldn't bring himself to be closer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253582-lion-el-jonson-second-finest-general/page/19/#findComment-3428998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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