Aegnor Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 So got around to listening to Butcher's Nails today. Listened to it twice in a row in fact. Keen to see what others think. I've flagged that there will probably be spoilers in the thread title but will use spoiler tags, conscious many others won't have read it. First thing - if you haven't got it yet, but have any interest whatsoever in the World Eaters, Word Bearers and their two peimarchs, GET THIS AUDIO DRAMA. Even if you don't like audio dramas, GET THIS ONE. If it helps to think of it as a radio play rather than an audiobook, do so, because if you like those legions, you'll love this. It's ADB, and that means its good. The character arc for Lorgar and his lads that was begun in TFH and (I understand) in Aurellian is continued really nicely here. I don't think its a spoiler to to say that everytime we see Lorgar now, especially when ADB is writing him, we're seeing an ever emerging total bad ass of a villian. Lorgar's presence in this story is pitch perfect and not to be missed if you're a fan. As the cover suggests, Angron is the star of this story. We certainly get a good look at Angron, and what makes him tick. I really liked the flawed, hurt individual we saw - I think ADB did a nice job of conveying how damaged Angron was, how very pitiful he was in a sense, while not diminishing him as a threat, as a character with strength living life his way, or as an interesting character. I think Angron might be the hardest Primarch to write - for an author he would seem to offer the least ready avenues to make engaging and interesting. I think ADB has done a good job of achieving this aim without changing what Angron is about or otherwise cheating, so kudos Aaron. Khârn is there, and is again interesting. His exchange with Argel Tal at the end is again, fantastic for fans of either character or legion. I did think it was interesting that it apparently hadn't yet become common for World Eaters to be consciously worshipping Khorne,nor had it occurred to Lorgar that Angron and his legion were prime cadidates to turn to Khorne. I'm not going to say "this is a change" because i dont think it actually is from what we've seen so far in Fulgrim, TFH, etc (ie in the HH series), and because its always a :cussty easy criticism to make of an author that's put a lot of thought into their story, but it does seem a bit different from the impression I'd always taken from the old, brief, fluff that Angron et al fell to Khorne almost immediately. I liked this version, and am looking forward to Betrayer a great deal now. . Poor old Khârn's character seems to be suffering again from a couple of the various portrayals by different authors of him at different times. The version we see here is much more in line with the pre-Isstvan III version we saw in the first trilogy, and in After De'shea, and is cool and I like him, but is not yet the kind of character he becomes in 40K, and which was shown in Chris Wraight's "Rebirth". It is what it is in terms of a multi-author story with heaps of characters and a complex timeline, and not worth considering as a negative - I've perversely really liked every version of Khârn, and am happy to do the double-think on his character. . Final thing, i really liked the voice acting in this drama - along with Dan Abnett's Talon and Thorn, this is the best produced/acted audio drama yet in my view. I especially liked the voicing of Lorgar, Khârn and Argel Tal. What else can I say... Hmmmm, if you find the subject of how other people see characters like a well known Imperial Fist captain intersting, there might be a lovely tidbit for you in this story as well. Sorry if all that comes across as a bit of fanboy gushing, but I really did enjoy this one - the best HH audiodrama by some margin in my view (ahead of The Lightning Tower), and format aside, a really good addition to the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Good to know its godo with out spoilers. :rolleyes: I think i wil ltry and get this one then. how long is the story by the way? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3077466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Good to know its godo with out spoilers. :rolleyes: I think i wil ltry and get this one then. how long is the story by the way? I reckon its about 70 minutes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3077471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 First Audio Drama I have picked up and it was worth it, One part I did like was when Lorgar and Angron were surprised and shocked that Primarchs can die, since Ferrus is confirmed KIA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3077472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Alright after skimming through the non-spoiler parts, you all have convinced me. Finishing up KNF tonight and downloading the Butcher's Nails! Edit 1: Really dislike the voices of Primarchs. Nothing really seems to do them justice. Edit 2: Just finished listening. I liked it overall. Khârn's voice wasn't as I imagined it would be but good never the less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3079265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Edit 1: Really dislike the voices of Primarchs. Nothing really seems to do them justice. Dembski-Bowden wrote that Lorgar's voice should be like Dr. Manhattan. That gave me shivers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3079958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Edit 1: Really dislike the voices of Primarchs. Nothing really seems to do them justice. Dembski-Bowden wrote that Lorgar's voice should be like Dr. Manhattan. That gave me shivers Awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Edit 1: Really dislike the voices of Primarchs. Nothing really seems to do them justice. Dembski-Bowden wrote that Lorgar's voice should be like Dr. Manhattan. That gave me shivers He sounds like that in my head, yep. That level of soulfulness, coupled with the same slight distraction - as though he's earnest, sincere, but perceiving something just out of sight or hearing to other people. Dr. Manhattan does that to perfection. There's a specific line, when Dr. Manhattan says "Through what you... perceive... as time." The slightest hesitation there, and the look in his eyes, sums his character up perfectly. ( ) I'd written The First Heretic before I saw Watchmen, but it's the same kind of thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 +10 pts for the easter egg references to the gladiatorial pit attendees of the past. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The Dr. Manhattan voice might suit wimpy Lorgar not sure if it suits newly bad ass Lorgar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I didn't have as much a problem with Lorgar's voice as I did with Angron. Everytime I heard it I just pictured an old, fat and angry drunk guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Edit 1: Really dislike the voices of Primarchs. Nothing really seems to do them justice. Dembski-Bowden wrote that Lorgar's voice should be like Dr. Manhattan. That gave me shivers He sounds like that in my head, yep. That level of soulfulness, coupled with the same slight distraction - as though he's earnest, sincere, but perceiving something just out of sight or hearing to other people. Dr. Manhattan does that to perfection. There's a specific line, when Dr. Manhattan says "Through what you... perceive... as time." The slightest hesitation there, and the look in his eyes, sums his character up perfectly. ( ) I'd written The First Heretic before I saw Watchmen, but it's the same kind of thing. When I first read the notes for voice acting, the line about Lorgar filled in the last blank spots in my perception of him. He became whole, complete. I guess it's not only the voice, it's also some character traits. Being non-human, but trying to act in the interests of humanity, bearing the burden of power and foreknowledge - that sounds a lot like Lorgar. To stay on topic, it's a pity that BL audiobooks are not read by a vide cast of voice-actors. That would have been great. I didn't have as much a problem with Lorgar's voice as I did with Angron. Everytime I heard it I just pictured an old, fat and angry drunk guy. I think that was made on purpose. In the sequence when Angron drowns in his rage, his inner voice changes, it becomes clearer, serene even. So probably Angron really sounds terrible - after all, he should be in constant pain, and only when Nails power up to the maximum, he gets some relief. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I really enjoyed it. Khârn was my favorite voice, closely followed by Lorgar. When I read ADBs idea on what the voices should sound like on his blog months ago, I thought the duality in Argel Tal's voice would be a bit more subtle. It feels like they tried to beat you over the head with the fact that he is one of the possessed. The bit about the chains originally being a World Eater tradition was a great tidbit. These little points help to make the universe more cohesive as a whole, and more real. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3080744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The bit about the chains originally being a World Eater tradition was a great tidbit. Actually, I think you'll find thats a tradition originating with Khârn rather than with the Legion as a whole. "The chains were a personal tradition, spread even among the other Legions after their popularity had escaped beyond the fighting pits of the World Eaters." At least thats very much the impression given by the extract above. But I can see where there might be some confusion though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3081057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I like the idea of the chains, to me it symbolises their enslavement to the Emperor, as that is how I would view it from Angrons pov. You fight for others amusement to further their cause, break free of their enslavement, only to be abudcted by an intergalaxtic version of your original enslaver. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3081473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 For the love of the God-Emperor Aaron, a novel short story, SOMETHING starring Sigismund and Amit!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3081592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I like the idea of the chains, to me it symbolises their enslavement to the Emperor, as that is how I would view it from Angrons pov. You fight for others amusement to further their cause, break free of their enslavement, only to be abudcted by an intergalaxtic version of your original enslaver. This makes sense considering Angron referred to the inheritance of his Legion as "capture" by the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3081594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I just listened to this (finally!), and whilst I thought the story was excellent, I have to agree that the voice acting for the two primarchs was a bit off. I thought Angron was overcooked and the snarling etc was too much. I just felt like the actor was trying to ram the "Rarrr I'm Angron and I'm Angry!" down my throat. I imagine his voice as a gravelly and irritated "oh sh*t he's in a bad mood" type of voice, with a constant scowling undertone of anger, rather than the loud snarling and roaring. At least that's how I imagine him. Lorgar was too deep and not enough soft Dr Manhattan there - interestingly I had imagined his voice like that before i saw ADB mention it above The interaction between Angron and Lorgar was too much like Kilngon Captain arguing with a Vulcan Starfleet captain The only other thing was why did Khârn have a dodgy foreign accent? The voice was bang on but the accent was puzzling :lol: Great story though, can't wait to read Betrayer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I just listened to this (finally!), and whilst I thought the story was excellent, I have to agree that the voice acting for the two primarchs was a bit off. I thought Angron was overcooked and the snarling etc was too much. I just felt like the actor was trying to ram the "Rarrr I'm Angron and I'm Angry!" down my throat. I imagine his voice as a gravelly and irritated "oh sh*t he's in a bad mood" type of voice, with a constant scowling undertone of anger, rather than the loud snarling and roaring. At least that's how I imagine him. Lorgar was too deep and not enough soft Dr Manhattan there - interestingly I had imagined his voice like that before i saw ADB mention it above The interaction between Angron and Lorgar was too much like Kilngon Captain arguing with a Vulcan Starfleet captain The only other thing was why did Khârn have a dodgy foreign accent? The voice was bang on but the accent was puzzling :D Great story though, can't wait to read Betrayer What did you think he should sound like? Even Terra 30K years in the past has a myriad amount of accents, and speaking as an American, all the voices are biased towards Englishmen anyway LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah, seconded, I'd prefer way more American accents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What did you think he should sound like? Even Terra 30K years in the past has a myriad amount of accents, and speaking as an American, all the voices are biased towards Englishmen anyway LOL Lol I dunno, it just surprised me that he sounded like Ardeth Bay from The Mummy :D As for the Englishmen featuring heavily in Audio dramas, haven't you seen Star Wars? The British acccent when spoken properly makes menacing bad guys, hence all the Imperial Officers are British. I jest, but there is an element of truth to that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What did you think he should sound like? Even Terra 30K years in the past has a myriad amount of accents, and speaking as an American, all the voices are biased towards Englishmen anyway LOL Lol I dunno, it just surprised me that he sounded like Ardeth Bay from The Mummy :D As for the Englishmen featuring heavily in Audio dramas, haven't you seen Star Wars? The British acccent when spoken properly makes menacing bad guys, hence all the Imperial Officers are British. I jest, but there is an element of truth to that LOL in all honesty I don't mind it at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah, seconded, I'd prefer way more American accents. Don't you think it removes the classical, antiquity feel if you use American accents? Look at the Rome series and just how emotive Paulo and Verenus were. Loved it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 First Audio Drama I have picked up and it was worth it, One part I did like was when Lorgar and Angron were surprised and shocked that Primarchs can die, since Ferrus is confirmed KIA Hmm, does this mean that the Primarchs of the missing Legions are not dead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The bit about the chains originally being a World Eater tradition was a great tidbit. Actually, I think you'll find thats a tradition originating with Khârn rather than with the Legion as a whole. "The chains were a personal tradition, spread even among the other Legions after their popularity had escaped beyond the fighting pits of the World Eaters." At least thats very much the impression given by the extract above. But I can see where there might be some confusion though. I disagree. I think the chains were a personal tradition of Angron. He has them on the cover of the book. I doubt he would take up a tradition Khârn started. More likely the other way around. I love how they named the Flesh Terror. Maybe Amit is their First chapter master? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253606-butchers-nails/#findComment-3109680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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