Gentlemanloser Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 OK so I might be changing my opinion on GKT come 6th. :) If, as the rumours suggest, and Power Weapons become AP3, our GKT (and to a lesser extend Paladin) just got a *massive* buff. Who needs Stormshields? :) I think the bigger question is whether our Nemesis Force Weapons will count as AP2 (Force Weapons on ICs are AP2). Maybe they will be AP3, and become AP2 on activation. If so, oh boy... (And hello Brotherhood Banners!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 OK so I might be changing my opinion on GKT come 6th. ;) If, as the rumours suggest, and Power Weapons become AP3, our GKT (and to a lesser extend Paladin) just got a *massive* buff. Who needs Stormshields? ;) I think the bigger question is whether our Nemesis Force Weapons will count as AP2 (Force Weapons on ICs are AP2). Maybe they will be AP3, and become AP2 on activation. If so, oh boy... (And hello Brotherhood Banners!) I almost started a similar thread on this a few days ago when the AP issue for close combat weapons came up as a rumour. This would help GKT on the internal balance scale, but not so much to tip it too far in the other direction. According to jeske, our Nemesis Force Weapons will all be AP2, so that will be an exceptionally nice feature, and will put us clearly on top in most assault comparisons. I'm really looking forward to 6th, and all of the discussions that will erupt on these boards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Why to lesser extent paladins? They will be near impossible to kill in cc w/ an apothecary. So they can sit back and shoot to their heart's content. And if DS rules means they can assault on arrival it gets even better for soladins. Mordrak lists look like they might be pretty decent bets as well. What gets the nerf bat is DCA cc squads. And paladins get no benefits at all. I plan on running Draigo with one paladin squad and the rest terminators. I expect to be seeing a lot of plasma being played soon as you will need to take down termies and MCs with it. I'm so glad I have 15 paladins and 10 terminators now (and thawn, and maleus inq). Life is sweet again. Speaking of which, land raiders will be better if people begin switching melta to plasma as well. Won't hurt GK with deamonhammers and psycannons though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'm curious how FNP will be worded. Will power weapons still ignore FNP or will it just be based on AP. In that case, Paladins with an apothecary will be insane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I wouldn't even call the DCA combat squads that much of a nerf... just don't charge terminators with them. Simple, easy peasy. How often do you really have to worry that much about termies? That being said, I'll most likely run my list thematically like I usually do and not sweat the rules rumors too much. Wait and see is more my mantra with rumors and new rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Why to lesser extent paladins? Power Fists and Chain Fists will be AP2 and still ID them. Yeah DCA take a nerfing, but then they were a shade too good, really. :tu: According to jeske, our Nemesis Force Weapons will all be AP2 All the time? That would be too good to imagine. ;) It would make all the GK units some of the best in CC! I'm curious how FNP will be worded. Will power weapons still ignore FNP or will it just be based on AP. In that case, Paladins with an apothecary will be insane. If it's not changed to include AP3, I'll be *very* surprised! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 According to jeske, our Nemesis Force Weapons will all be AP2 I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else. But as 6th edition is about a month away I'm currently just in the 'wait and see' mode. We're seeing small rule tidbits that may or may not be (entirely) true, taken out of context of the full rule changes. For example, other rumours floating around and also being in that leaked playtest document were that FNP was also negated on AP3 and that regular Power weapons could gain a 5+ invulernable 'parry' save, which would all change the balance of regular power weapons versus things like powerfists and thunderhammers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 For example, other rumours floating around and also being in that leaked playtest document were that FNP was also negated on AP3 for which kind of unit . you take a rumor from one guy who thinks about one unit with FnP he saw or heard and you then generlise it for all units. I mean even now if somone is sv+2 and doesnt get double T weapon in the face he gets FnP. So ap3 hiting paint token DE ? probably no FnP . on BA termis or the 10 man paladin squad of doom ? FnP as hell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Jeske, Is that part of a rumor you have heard because currently ap 3 does not by pass feel no pain for anyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The playtest document had it for all AP3 weaponry, but as I said, all the rules rumours could just be false and/or taken out of context. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 My real problem with GKT is that they get shot to death before reaching CC. So unless there is something else to mitigate that, I won't get too excited yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes you shoot terminators. But with the new hull point rules it is likely that S6-S7 will actually be better against most vehicles. So shooting terminators becomes tougher unless you load up on plasma which we will see more of I'm sure. As for pfists taking out paladins - well they strike first so you will be lucky to get your pfist attacks. Expect more LCs on terminators and halberds on GKTs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 You means that armies will load up on S6-S7 instead of bigger guns to kill tanks, so they will have less big guns to shot at Terminators? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 GKT coming out of Land Raiders. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 You wil still need something for land raiders of course but statistics might support better results for HBs and Assault Cannons now over Missiles. Of course if everyone starts playing LRs and termies I'm not sure what is best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Of course if everyone starts playing LRs and termies I'm not sure what is best. fists and melta . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Of course if everyone starts playing LRs and termies I'm not sure what is best. fists and melta . Which puts you close to the GKT that you would want to kill with shooting. Also: I don't understand the need to nerf power weapons against TDA, unless the object is to sell more boxes of Terminator models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Of course if everyone starts playing LRs and termies I'm not sure what is best. fists and melta . Which puts you close to the GKT that you would want to kill with shooting. Also: I don't understand the need to nerf power weapons against TDA, unless the object is to sell more boxes of Terminator models. Yes, I'm sure GW would not make something that mean. Remember why they changed the marks of Chaos to Icons ? Yep, there's an icon in the new SMC box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Because currently terminators that don't have a 3++ save are :lol:. It was either something like this or upping their natural I save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Of course if everyone starts playing LRs and termies I'm not sure what is best. fists and melta . Which puts you close to the GKT that you would want to kill with shooting. Also: I don't understand the need to nerf power weapons against TDA, unless the object is to sell more boxes of Terminator models. Yes, I'm sure GW would not make something that mean. Remember why they changed the marks of Chaos to Icons ? Yep, there's an icon in the new SMC box. What's SMC? And I don't remember why they changed marks to icons since I wasn't playing the game at that time, but it really sucks to get your icon bearer shot and lose the blessings of your chosen deity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 im thinking SMC= Space Marine Commander Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Woops. SMC = Space marine du Chaos. CSM in french. -Max-, I'm not really talking about the dumb rule, I'm talking about the WYSIWYG. Marks where not represented. The Icons must be. And they then changed some minor things in the CSM box, and added the icon. Back then, when you just opened your new Chaos gavdex, it seemed like a sick joke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3078951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 AP in close-combat is dumb, pure and simple. This is Warhammer Fantasy infecting our mostly-functional ruleset. As others have said though, wait and see. If this is legit though, I'm sticking with 5th. People get close-combat wrong enough in my local meta, without this additional shenanigans of 'lol you don't have enough power in your power weapon, I get my armour save'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3079790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm sure this is legit. Maybe some of the info miht be a little wrong in function (like our NFW being AP2), but the general rules will be there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3079875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 They will need a Faq for our NFWs but knowing the trends GW will not nerf any SM codex. If they take away our PWs on DCA, they need to give us something to replace it. No one will want to be within 12" of terminators. I expect SW/Wolf Guard to be packing lots of combi-plasma, FNP BA squads exchanging melta for plasma, etc., etc. Working out assaults will not be that complicated. You will know the AP values of weapons after a few games for sure. Glancing vehicles to death will be the norm. I never found the need for LRs in my GK lists but now they just might be new inclusions. It will not be easy to take them out and you really do not want to get into melta range just to be assaulted by terminators. I think GK overall will be fine in 6ed. I'm waiting for the DS rules to be explicit. If we get to assault after DSing, Mordrak lists might be quite popular. I can't wait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253649-gkt-and-6th/#findComment-3080010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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