Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I would say Magnus was loyal to the end, being forced to turn only after Russ was so easily tricked into attacking Prospero. Magnus tried his utmost to stop Horus turning, Horus chose to go along with Erebus, Magnus also obeyed the ruling at Nikea for a time, only going against it when left with no other choice At Nikea the Wolves were tricked into beleiving they had been attacked by the Sons, they were not! Magnus forbade his Legion from engaging the Wolves enroute to Prospero, the Wolves were once more tricked, this time by Erebus into attacking Prospero, their actual orders being to return Magnus to Terra without bloodshed. The Emperor was warned about Horus but chose to ignore Magnus, this is odd as at this instant (a moment after Magnus realised what he had done in regards to his treaties in the Warp) both him and the Emperor instantly knew everything the other knew, making it hard to explain why the Emperor didn't do anything about Horus. Magnus was forced to act to save his legion from the Wolves who were unwittingly the agents of Chaos, even at the end he did what he did once more to save his legion, never intending to treat with Chaos. You can pretty much pin the Sons turning traitor on Erebus and his puppet Russ. Far as the Wolves go, they deserve everything they get from the Thousand Sons. If Russ didn't have one of his "Russ smash!" moments, the Sons would have been loyal allies till the end, although they had suffered under the changer of ways, they still had the strength of will to overcome that, most legions fell whole heartedly and willingly into the embrace of Chaos, it is just plain wrong to suggest the same of the Thousand Sons. this whole post ignores the story of A Thousand Sons (where Magnus gets the power to the T-Sons from the chaos gods and is damned from the begining), the Collected Visions book (where the Emperor himself orders Russ to destroy Magnus) and Prospero Burns (where Russ begs Magnus through what is believed to be a spy to stand down before the invasion). thats like a hat-trick of wrongness. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfGuardVortek Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Magnus' main failure was to share his his father's arrogance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hashrat Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 In Prospero burns Erebus tricks them into attacking the thousand sons, there is no order from the Emperor to do anything other than bring him back to Terra. I cannot for the life of me recall his name, but the poor sod that got shot down at the beginning of Prospero burns and then spends the rest of the story with the Wolves, eventually realised near the end of the novel that their attack was not ordered by the Emperor but by Erebus (at least the reader is told it was Erebus, the character just realises it was not who he thought it was). Also, where does it claim he knowingly gained power from Tzeench? He didn't realise what he had done till the time breached the golden throne. I am sure my memory isn't that bad ;) But it could very well be. But as for being dammed from the beggining, that doesn't match with any novel I ever read about them. Collected visions was also published in 07 wasn't it, I imagine that Prospero Burns would take precedence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 A Father. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 In Prospero burns Erebus tricks them into attacking the thousand sons, there is no order from the Emperor to do anything other than bring him back to Terra. I cannot for the life of me recall his name, but the poor sod that got shot down at the beginning of Prospero burns and then spends the rest of the story with the Wolves, eventually realised near the end of the novel that their attack was not ordered by the Emperor but by Erebus (at least the reader is told it was Erebus, the character just realises it was not who he thought it was). Also, where does it claim he knowingly gained power from Tzeench? He didn't realise what he had done till the time breached the golden throne. I am sure my memory isn't that bad ;) But it could very well be. But as for being dammed from the beggining, that doesn't match with any novel I ever read about them. Collected visions was also published in 07 wasn't it, I imagine that Prospero Burns would take precedence. please tell me, in Prospero Burns, what page shows Erebus tricking the wolves into attacking Prospero? Because from what i remember, Prospero Burns follows Kasper Hawser during his time with Tra Compnay, and they are told by Russ where to regroup with the Legion prior to the invasion. as Prospero Burns doesnt say this, then the earlier source (Collected Visions) still takes precedence here. I never said he gained power from Tzeentch, but from the chaos gods. (i would assume Tzeentch, but as it doesnt say...) Magnus admits to this bargain to Ahriman in A Thousand Sons, after killing his Captain just before the Wolves arrive to wreck stuff. and in a Thousand Sons, at the Council of Nikea, the Emperor himself says what will happen to Magnus if he breaks his oath. @M2C: I dont believe Corax has a father figure, but like Fulgrim, a community supporting him. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Meh. You don't send a Legion of Werewolf Space Vikings and Adeptus Custodes, who both have a history of beefing with the Thousand Sons, to bring them in peacefully. Whatever the exact wording of the Emperor's orders were, even without Constantin Valdor and Horus pushing for Russ to burn Prospero until the worms choke on ashes (not sure where you got that Erebus was involved, can you provide a chapter or page numbers?) the chances of a Space Wolves/Thousand Sons standoff being handled without incident where about the same as Angron being able to fly by flapping his ceramite covered arms really, really fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Angron being able to fly by flapping his ceramite covered arms really, really fast. Bad example. His levels of rage can make anyone fly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Angron being able to fly by flapping his ceramite covered arms really, really fast. Bad example. His levels of rage can make anyone fly. Quick, someone get a moderator to delete this thread! Corax having invisibility powers in Deliverance Lost was bad enough, I don't want to even think about the possibility that ADB might meander across this thead and be inspired to "gift" WH40K with ANGRON, THE PRIMARCH WHO SOARS LIKE AN EAGLE, in Betrayer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3129474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I meant they all share the same father. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3130165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I meant they all share the same father. oh, my bad. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3130259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 All good, brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/253678-what-the-loyal-primarchs-have-in-common/page/3/#findComment-3131427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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