How to create and use a theme in your Index Astartes

[Arkangilos]

An example would be making a Roman Themed chapter, changing the names of your captains to centurions, the size of your companies to 80 and calling them centuries, calling your chapter master a legate, and stuff like that.

[Malthe]

I reiterate: Rome (or indeed any culture or historical period) is not a theme ;)

 

What you have done in that example is applying the titles of a historical period as metaphors.

Rome is not a theme, but it might work as a metaphor for any number of themes; civilisation vs. barbarism, high culture vs. dirty politics, etc.

 

Simply adopting the naming conventions of a historical period doesn't add anything to your article, besides making people think of the period from which they originate.

There is no theme, only imagery.

This overt use of metaphors doesn't do anything but ruin the suspension of disbelief.

 

@ BBL

Actually I find this way of thinking quite effective when generating ideas for an IA.

Instead of brainstorming concepts, or images, I try to think of conflicts which I feel are interesting to explore in a IA context.

When I have between three and five conflict, I try to formulate a question, and voila, there is my theme :D

[Arkangilos]

I reiterate: Rome (or indeed any culture or historical period) is not a theme ;)

 

What you have done in that example is applying the titles of a historical period as metaphors.

Rome is not a theme, but it might work as a metaphor for any number of themes; civilisation vs. barbarism, high culture vs. dirty politics, etc.

 

Simply adopting the naming conventions of a historical period doesn't add anything to your article, besides making people think of the period from which they originate.

There is no theme, only imagery.

This overt use of metaphors doesn't do anything but ruin the suspension of disbelief.

 

@ BBL

Actually I find this way of thinking quite effective when generating ideas for an IA.

Instead of brainstorming concepts, or images, I try to think of conflicts which I feel are interesting to explore in a IA context.

When I have between three and five conflict, I try to formulate a question, and voila, there is my theme :D

 

I disagree. A theme is anything that gives it a unifying and dominant idea. If your dominant idea is based off the Roman culture, it is a Roman theme. If your dominant idea is based off of a space ship, then it is a space ship themed idea.

 

If you take a culture from something, and apply it to what you are working on, your work is themed off of that culture.

[Malthe]

The point is, as you say, that it is themed off of something, i.e. your theme is derived from your idea of Roman culture (a metaphor).

"Dominant idea = theme" tells us nothing about what a theme is.

Besides, you can't apply a culture, only it's imagery (metaphor), or themes derived from one.

[Malthe]

Whoops...

 

I'll use this unfortunate double post to add:

 

I am argueing this, because I feel that thinking (and applying) themes the way I suggest, is very very helpful when writing an IA.

If the method I present is followed, you'll never end up rewriting the Rise and Decline of the Roman Empire :D

[Arkangilos]

Whoops...

 

I'll use this unfortunate double post to add:

 

I am argueing this, because I feel that thinking (and applying) themes the way I suggest, is very very helpful when writing an IA.

If the method I present is followed, you'll never end up rewriting the Rise and Decline of the Roman Empire :devil:

 

I understand what you are saying, but by definition, what I had said fits the definition of a "theme."

[Aqui]

It could be argued that ideas for a Chapter could be fall under the heading of either a "Flavour" or a "Theme". It depends on how in-depth an idea is.

 

Using Rome as an example:

 

A Rome "Flavour" could be: Armour that has Roman elements (Head dresses, Honour marks), Banners etc.

 

A Rome "Theme" could be: Tactics, organisation, Roman sounding names, (all of the above), Socio-political observations (or at least what has been discerned from what is known of them), etc etc.

 

To me there is no right or wrong way of turning an idea into the basis of a Chapter. There are so many things I haven't thought about that others in this Topic have, it's rather refreshing to read them.

 

One idea that cropped up in the Liber a while a go is this one by CKO. For those who haven't read it, it's an idea where you list ten things that another reader should know about your Chapter. I found it tough going to list ten things that were both pertinent and interesting about any of mine, but it does help. For a start, it weeds out potentially maudlin ideas, and helps you focus one one or maybe two central ideas for your Chapter.

 

I'm not saying that it will work for everyone, or indeed for one person all the time, but it does make you think about your ideas.

[Malthe]

I understand what you are saying, but by definition, what I had said fits the definition of a "theme."

 

Well you are completly in the right :lol:

 

What I am suggesting is simply a way of working with themes when writing IAs.

So instead of saying "Rome isn't a theme" I should have said; "when writing IAs, Rome isn't a very helpful theme".

Of course it's all a matter of personal taste, but I stand by my sentiment that thinking of themes as questions and conflicts and applying them via metaphors, makes for great IAs!

And I think it's a very helpful approach ^_^

[Arkangilos]

I understand what you are saying, but by definition, what I had said fits the definition of a "theme."

 

Well you are completly in the right ^_^

 

What I am suggesting is simply a way of working with themes when writing IAs.

So instead of saying "Rome isn't a theme" I should have said; "when writing IAs, Rome isn't a very helpful theme".

Of course it's all a matter of personal taste, but I stand by my sentiment that thinking of themes as questions and conflicts and applying them via metaphors, makes for great IAs!

And I think it's a very helpful approach :)

 

I agree.

 

And you are right :lol:

[CKO]

One idea that cropped up in the Liber a while a go is this one by CKO. For those who haven't read it, it's an idea where you list ten things that another reader should know about your Chapter. I found it tough going to list ten things that were both pertinent and interesting about any of mine, but it does help. For a start, it weeds out potentially maudlin ideas, and helps you focus one one or maybe two central ideas for your Chapter.

 

I'm not saying that it will work for everyone, or indeed for one person all the time, but it does make you think about your ideas.

 

Do I have perfect timing or what? ;)

 

I am making a bold statemate as I disagree with alot that has been said in this thread so far. :mellow:

 

The definition of theme is a subject of discussion, an idea, or subject matter. Is it really hard to come up with a theme? I think not, what we as writers have a hard time doing is making our theme unique and entertaining to read. How do we do that? I dont know all the answers but I know that the first step is having a thorough understanding of your theme. You can make it entertaining because you may know something we dont know about it or you can present it in a way that makes it seem unique, or add things to it.

 

The possibilities are endless and that often becomes the problem with themes. Its hard to focus on the core of your theme when you have so much you can share because of the vast knowledge you have stored in your head. The best advice you can have when it comes to themes is show dont tell. Pretend that your reader has to describe your Chapter, will he be able to tell you more if you say they are roman like or if you describe to them what rome is like?

[Ace Debonair]

Ok.

Having read both pages this time, let me chime in with this.

 

Firstly, a theme is not always a conflict. It's an idea that runs through a work, or is at least present several times.

It can be expressed as a conflict, but it isn't always one.

 

Secondly I agree that 'Ancient Japan' is not so much a theme as shorthand for a collection of themes (dutiful, honourable, etc etc) and imagery that are often associated in the writer's head with the culture in question.

 

'Duty vs' honour' would not be the focus of the chapter I suggested earlier if I were to write it up. Honour and Duty would be closely bound together, for one thing. :) Instead, I'd focus more on how their honour codes effect their behaviour, and how in turn that effects the Chapter's doctrines, beliefs, relations with the other factions, and so on.

 

Sure, that could be expressed as a conflict too, but it's not how I'd think of it when writing it up.

 

Using a central conflict to generate ideas is a good way of going on, though. It's not how I'd usually apply a theme to an IA, but I do think it'd work quite well.

[Reyner]

The suspense is killing me...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The suspense is killing me...

 

It's the meticulously sharpened greatsword that's killing me.

[Ace Debonair]

That's a post responding to a post about a post that was being edited because the writer had missed a whole page of other posts.

 

Upon realising this, I have a headache.

 

 

On topic, I'm not sure there is a definitive single way to create and apply a theme to an IA. There are almost as many ways to write as there are people writing!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I figured it was somehow related, but it just amuses me that "suspense" can kill :)

[SnakeoilSage]

Here's some ideas for creating a Chapter's theme(s).

 

Chapter Template

What is your Chapter's "character class?" Consider the classes you can play in Dungeons and Dragons. They fit a broad range of heroic (or villainous) archetypes. Using one as a foundation can go a long way in explaining your Chapter's personality to your fellow geeks. For example; the White Scars are Rangers. The Emperor's Children are (evil) Bards. Space Wolves and World Eaters are Barbarians. Word Bearers are Clerics. Ultramarines are Paladins.

The template can be subtle or overt. A lot of players would argue that Ultramarines are not Paladins, but very boring Fighters. I see Ultramar as a beacon of human virtue, so that's my reasoning behind it. Of course, this is a discussion for a different thread. What's important is that the D&D classes provide a skeleton to build your Chapter on.

 

Sample Templates: Bard, Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Rogue, Wizard, etc.

 

Chapter Concept

Describe your Chapter in a few words or a single sentence. You can use a few descriptive terms or even a quote to lay down what your Chapter's all about. Space Wolves, for example, are Vikings... In SPAAACE!. That "in Spaaace!" aspect is actually pretty common to the majority of the Space Marine Legions. Vampires (Blood Angels), Rock Stars (Emperor's Children), Arthurian Knights (Dark Angels), Zombies (Death Guard) ...In Spaaace!

Of course you might want something more elaborate or specific. A Chapter that obsessed with death might wield scythes, wear robes, and carry thuribles, and their Concept is Soldiers of the Dead. Another Chapter might take inspiration not from traditional Space Marines but from modern, "American" power armored marines like the Terrans of Starcraft or the COG soldiers from Gears of War, in which case "Brotherhood of Action Heroes" might be a cheeky but accurate way to explain your Chapter Concept.

The Concept of my own Chapter, the Nemesis Angels, is "Clan Malkavian... in Spaaace!" because of their Blood Bonding practices... the sharing of perspectives through the consumption of blood has created a Space Marine Chapter where everyone seems to have "voices in their heads."

 

Sample Concepts: Teutonic Knights... In Spaaace!, Spartans... In Spaaace!, Cyborg Monks, Steampunk Wizards, etc.

 

Chapter Trouble

A Chapter is only as interesting as its problems. The Ultramarines have no physical flaws, rule a vast empire, are eponymous warriors of the Emperor and exemplify the ideal Space Marine... and they are so boring.

Think about your Trouble carefully. A good Trouble should be something (or someone) that, when it rears its ugly head, your Chapter must act. It's like regurgitation: something bad's gonna happen no matter what, but if you don't at least run for the toilet, you'll be cleaning carpets for a week.

Don't use gene-flaws. Space Marine gene-flaws seem to be an oxymoron. If you aren't "cursed with awesome" like the Space Wolves, then your defective gene implant spectacularly fail to cause you any noteworthy problems. The Imperial Fists seem to do just fine with two missing implants, don't they? Fancy that.

Also, don't use "lots of enemies" as your Trouble. This is the 41st Millennium, an age of unending war. EVERYONE has lost of enemies. Your SERVITOR has enemies.

Think more about what compels the existing Chapters to act the way they do. The Imperial Fists' stubborn nature makes them hardy warriors, but it also means they're likely to sacrifice numbers instead of taking a more advantageous strategy. The Blood Angels' Flaw hangs over their heads like the Doom of Damocles, threatening their very finest warriors with sudden insanity and promising to one day doom their entire Chapter to madness and death. The Dark Angels are absolutely driven to hunt the Fallen, even if it means lying or backstabbing the Imperium to keep their secret hunt alive. The Space Wolves have no love for authority, and the brutal disregard the Imperium has for its own citizens means the Space Wolves will only too gladly pick a fight with the Inquisition and other Imperial organizations.

My own Chapter, the Nemesis Angels, have found a means to combat the Black Rage that threatens them with a different kind of insanity, and their tendency to take recruits from whatever world they visit regardless of who the planet belongs to means they pick needless fights with otherwise honored allies. They also share an unbridled hatred for a traitor who nearly wiped the Chapter out from within.

 

Sample Troubles: A Plague on our House, We Must Avenge our Honor, Hunted by our Prey, We Cannot Trust the Imperium.

[ChaptermasterDemon7]

SnakeoilSage, Your template is really good for making a Chapter. I think I will use it for my Blood Guardians, which are still in the process of getting fleshed out, for a fourth time.

[ironloki]

I would also recommend keeping a picture in your mind of what you want your chapter to represent. It could be a battle-scene, a apocolyptic war, or something as simple as your Chapter's marine walking down a hall, etc, etc.

 

This. This idea is completely central to designing a complete IA that not only makes sense, but 'feels right'. It also works for a lot of writers. I was listening to George R R Martin (Author of Game of Thrones) on Radio4 and he said that he had the idea for the book many years ago and his first image was the Starks coming across the Wolf pups with one completely white albino. Most sources of inspiration come from a single core idea.

 

The issue is keeping your Chapter simple and I know that problem myself. You start off with one key idea (X) and then you work on it to come up with several key themes and ideas (X, Y and Z). Great, excellent you have it in the palm of your hand. However, after a few years of thinking you end up with a whole alphabet of ideas and by that time it does not fit. That is when you need to revisit that central idea, that spark of inspiration. Always ask yourself - Does ideas A, B and C really add to my chapter? Do my Marines really need to have a desire to tattoo their faces, does that fit with my idea of a Knightly Chapter or is it just useless window dressing. Just like when you are painting - you choose 2 or 3 main colours, and pick out the details with another 1 or 2 smaller colours. Otherwise you end up obscuring everything.

 

Part of the problem is the relatively 'official' structure of an IA article with its reporting style. You don't have 40,000 words to flesh out your characters, instead you have to be short(relatively) and precise. If you have additional ideas that may detract from your IA article perhaps filter them into a short story featuring your own chapter. :P

[Andrew J]

I usually follow along the lines of Telanicus and SnakeOilSage and pick an overriding culture/period of time that works with my original idea and then work my way back from there. I will go through and refine the ideas that I like and remove or alter the ones that I dont like. I find this gives me a large amount of ideas to work with and allows enough freedom to do interesting things while having a framework of that culture/period to work in. I feel like that is how most of GW's chapters have been designed and it works well for me.

 

Another thing that I like to do is come up with a central attitude or belief that defines the chapter and then come up with a culture that either works well with that or conflicts. Example would be stubborn hellenistic greek themed. That gives you a lot of imagery and background to work with and stick throughout the article.

 

Thats just how I have done it, it works for me because of my love of history and background.

 

Another thing I feel is necessary to add is that people do a little research about their theme beforehand. It can lead to some interesting views that you might not have had and give you more insight into exactly what you want for your chapter.

[Ecritter]

I always start with an idea/theme or a pic and work back from there ... always seemed to work for me.

[TrashMan]

My suggestion/advice is to always keep the theme and inspiration subjle. Don't let it stick out like it's trying to poke your eyes out.

Like someone making a japan-inspired chapters, only to have everything have japaneesel-liek names, katanas, samurais and stuff. A carbon-copy almost.

 

 

 

Good example:

Ultramarines. They are inspired by roman legions, yet you barely see it.

 

 

Bad Example:

Space Wolves - everything is wolf/fang, etc...

The aftermentioned samurai chapters

 

 

I tried to do the same with my chapter.

It's inspired by the Arturial Legend and the Phoenix Myth - yet neither are overpowering. My captains aren't named after the knights of hte round table. Not everything follows the legend. There isn't a planet Camelot..or excalibur. Not everything is fire-this or fire-that.

[Octavulg]

Good example:

Ultramarines. They are inspired by roman legions, yet you barely see it.

 

...No. The Ultramarines are simultaneously under and over-themed. The theme doesn't stretch through the chapter, but every aspect that is there has all the subtlety of a brick to the face (the use of the story of Augustus is...unsubtle. At best).

 

If you want an official IA with a notably well-executed theme, look at the Alpha Legion or the White Scars.

[Arkangilos]

Good example:

Ultramarines. They are inspired by roman legions, yet you barely see it.

 

...No. The Ultramarines are simultaneously under and over-themed. The theme doesn't stretch through the chapter, but every aspect that is there has all the subtlety of a brick to the face (the use of the story of Augustus is...unsubtle. At best).

 

If you want an official IA with a notably well-executed theme, look at the Alpha Legion or the White Scars.

 

 

Well, I will buy the Alpha Legion, but the white scars? I mean, I agree it is well themed, but now more so than the Wolves or the Ultramarines.

[Octavulg]

It's better than the Wolves because it doesn't stick Wolf onto everything (the White Scars rename precisely two things - Captains and Librarians. And don't turn into wolves). The Space Wolves drip wolf. The White Scars are Mongoly, but not completely so. It also helps that it's not seven thousand words long.

 

As to the Ultramarines - it's more subtle than the Ultramarine IA's least subtle bits and more consistent.

[TrashMan]

Malthe, it seems to me you might be over-thinking things.

 

 

A chapter is a military fighting unit.

To try to force some deeper meaning, burning questions or heavy theme into it MIGHT make it more intereasting/unique, or it might have a opposite effect.

 

Does there have to be a deeper meaning? no. Does there have to be some burnign question? Not really. Altough I'm sure poeple will find some, just as they find hidden symbolism in things.