Thargrim_Bloodwolf Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 After reading Fulgrim a while ago it seemed that by the end of the novel Fulgrim was trapped in a painting while a daemon from his sword controlled his body and lead his legion while Fulgrim's conciousness was left to suffer for eternity in his portrait. However, after recently reading The Reflection Crack'd in the Primarchs it seems that Fulgrim actually trapped the daemon in the painting and just began to slip into debauchery through slaanesh's blessing rather than daremonic influence. After reading this I was unsure as to which was correct due to the short story being written from Lucius' view point and therefore his probable warped perception. Therefore I put it to you, those who follow in Fulgrim's footsteps, to put in your interpretations on this occurence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The scene in the "forest", in Reflection Crack'd, makes no sense if it's the daemon inside Fulgrim's body. Personally, my opinion is that at first the daemon had fully possessed Fulgrim, but that after the book ended, but before The Reflection Crack'd, Fulgrim managed to reverse the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think thats the point of Reflection Crack'd, no one really knows. Is the daemon just pretending to be flugrim to get people on his side? Has Fulgrim actually fallen to chaos, despite his remorse at killing Manus? Or are they both working together, protecting there shared body and exploting the other personailities advantages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The scene in the "forest", in Reflection Crack'd, makes no sense if it's the daemon inside Fulgrim's body. What makes you say that? For me it was quite obvious that Daemon controlled the body, and Fulgrim just barely managed to speak to him. It was not a primarch all the time, and the body was transforming as Fabius told them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 In the forest, the disembodied voice was trying to make the body feel guilty over killing Ferrus Manus. The body replied, "Are you trying to make me feel guilty for killing my brother?" Whoever was in the body truly thought they were Fulgrim. But the voice gave no impression. The body says "This body was always mine." The voice says "No, not always." that could mean two things, either the daemon was in the body, or the daemon was reminding Fulgrim of his short joyride. When you sit there, look at it, look back at Lucius dream where he "felt himself drawn into the eyes of the portrait as something stirred within him, a primal presence that had only recently awoken and shared a kinship with the reflected image. The glassy surface of the mirror rippled like the surface of a pool as it too sensed that shared heritage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Not to move away from the supplied information but is there any instance of a greater daemon being changed into a daemon prince? As fulgrim is clearly described as being raised to the level of a greater daemon prince in most of the fluff surrounding his post heresey status. So if he was possessed then slaanesh was pretty impressed by his doppleganger enough to give him a permanent personality and a whole planet, if not it makes far more sense for him to end up as a daemon prince later on. I cast my vote on fulgrim pulling a 180 on the possessing daemon and being really messed up after his time in hell/warp/oblivion painting land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This would awesome beyond words if Fulgrim came back I think. Both Lorgar and Horus wanted to help him out at different points. Lorgar is without a doubt strong enough to do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinius Chosen Wing Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I sometimes wonder if he ever truly got possessed in the normal sense. Even the interaction with Horus I always wondered if it was fulgrim just embarrassing slaanesh so much faster than any other primach. It's hinted at in the mirror story with how much he knows about slaanesh and how changed he seems compared to what he used to be. What if The "possession" was just different parts of his psyche fighting with each other? I think that makes the story infinitely creepier and saddening because he destroyed himself, the laer gave him the instrument to slaanesh but he dove in head first and wiped out the old him so thoroughly even his brother couldn't tell it was him or his own sons though he was a doppelgänger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Too be honest, I do truly believe that he was possessed. But the daemon, in all of its infinite wisdom, put a Primarch's soul inside what would basically be a warp conduit of sorts, that was located in what could strongly be considered sacred ground as far as Slaanesh is concerned. So Fulgrim had full access to the warp and the knowledge it contained from his prison. From there, it was a matter of tricking the daemon out of his body. Probably convinced it that it had already wrung out whatever pleasure it could from such a body and then as he escaped, he trapped the daemon in the painting. Just as he was trapped. It can observe the outside, all of the outside, through the warp, but it is anchored to the painting. And Fulgrim's changes were simply the beginning of his metamorphosis into a daemon prince. The psychic abilities where he turned the Titan crew into a meatball was no different from something Magnus could have done. A gift from his patron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinius Chosen Wing Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I just feel that it was always lurking inside of him. He aimed for perfection and nobility but after the laer and the treachery at istvaan he was able to through away the allusion to creating perfection and just released what had been in him all along. Surprising everyone with how dep he had fallen before it had happened. A bit like lorgar he continued to portray the faithful servant but was as rotten as anything on the inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The problem is that Horus thought he was possessed and when Lorgar saw him in the LE novella Aurelian, he too believed that a daemon had taken over his brother's body and like Horus, he vowed that he would remove the daemon because the possession was different from the possession of Argel Tal where both Marine and daemon bonded to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenArtist Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I thought at some point in "Aurelian" Lorage told the Daemon controling Fulgrim to enjoy your stay it wont last for long though i could be wrong. If that is correct then that little part and the part in the forest it should point to the fact that Fulgrim is himself and that the daemon has been put in it's place or they are now Fulgrim and Daemon in union together. My personal opinion is the it is the real Fulgrim but then again that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Lorgar seemed to have came to a sort of truce with the daemon in Fulgrim at the end of Aurelian. Seems to me that in order to rid himself of a daemon like that he'd need some powerful psychic help like Magnus or Lorgar. In my opinion it's still the daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makesomenoise Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Well we are talking about a freakishly perfect human, also the elevated to daemon prince thing sticks with me. He either had to have snatched his body back by some means or the daemon stepped up his game and was super rewarded for it. Also the whole thing between fulgrim and lucius is an odd spin. The revelation of baiting lucius into a potential duel by faking lesser swordsmanship, the willing acceptance of torture from bile... idk if thats the daemon he's a crafty sob and may as well keep fulgrims body. Also i want it as an hq choice in the codex... or fulgrim proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 just read this last night-it was a very good read! I like lucius a lot more now... I think fulgrim was possessed but only briefly...and he is now back to normal... slightly off topic..in the torture scene...did they put something where i think they did? if so..ouch! back on topic...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 slightly off topic..in the torture scene...did they put something where i think they did? if so..ouch! Yep, that was my understanding based on description and its historic uses. I was pretty surprised they went that way. As for the topic at hand, I think the idea that the real Fulgrim managed to overwhelm the daemon and trade places probably makes the most sense, but as with all things of Chaos, one never knows for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And by this point he had seen too much. So even if he put the daemon back, he is still traumatized for killing his favorite brother, still traumatized from the possession, and still traumatized from the warp exposure. He might as well be possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.