Help with DIY chapter construction

[ShasVa]

The Protectors were what I was going for, but after some reading and net-research, I want to take a slightly different route.

 

I want my chapter to be high-tech. Like the Iron Hands, but preferably without the obvious hatred towards organics. If it was toned down to "going cybernetic is cooler" rather than "****** organics ****** suck Ork ****!", then that would be fine.

 

I also imagined them having been influenced by elements within the Inquisition and the AdMech, specifically the Xeno Hybris and Xenarites (respectively). My idea is that the chapter would study and reverse-engineer xenos tech for the chapter's use, rather than just using the xenos tech. I figured that this would allow the chapter to have plenty of nice gadgets and things to use against mankind's enemies. I wanted the parent chapter to be the Ultramarines, but I can't quite see such a successor chapter allowing such influences.

 

Astartes-tech wise, they'd also be experimental. Predators equipped with Battlecannons, smaller squads so everyone can take Razorbacks...just a few examples of what the chapter would be capable of. Their leader (CM or Cap, I haven't decided yet) would have access to the best infantry-grade arms the chapter can dish out (so game-wise he'd most likely be 2+/3++, etc).

 

So basically, I'm after a chapter that:

- is hi tech

- isn't shy about reverse-engineering xenos tech or experimenting with its own Astartes tech

- will barely tolerate other xenos if it means destroying a common enemy

- has a view on average citizens between the Ultramarines (respect) and the Iron Hands (disdain for fleshy weakness)

 

Any help would be appreciated on this, thanks. :)

[ironloki]

Hmmm, some interesting ideas - but you might want to make sure that you don't turn your chapter into 'uber marines of doom' - as that belongs to the Grey Knights :lol:

 

I want my chapter to be high-tech. Like the Iron Hands, but preferably without the obvious hatred towards organics. If it was toned down to "going cybernetic is cooler" rather than "****** organics ****** suck Ork ****!", then that would be fine.

 

Marines would not think of bionics are cooler - more 'necessary' or 'productive'. Iron Hands see the flesh as weak, whilst others use bionics as a replacement for lost limbs or enhancement. You could go with the idea of your Chapter feeling that bionics enhance the human condition, or perhaps they have a closer connection to the machine spirit and the adoption of such bionics is a religious union and act.

 

Astartes-tech wise, they'd also be experimental. Predators equipped with Battlecannons, smaller squads so everyone can take Razorbacks...just a few examples of what the chapter would be capable of. Their leader (CM or Cap, I haven't decided yet) would have access to the best infantry-grade arms the chapter can dish out (so game-wise he'd most likely be 2+/3++, etc).

 

Tampering with equipment is a bit of a taboo in the Imperium as almost all of it is a relic of a lost age. Experimenting with existing patterns (i.e. creating variant Razorbacks and Land Raiders) usually happen as the result of a campaign. You are not really going to be given high grade equipment by the Imperium, unless you were created specifically to serve the Inquisition or if you find lost tech (rare, and usually on a small level). Were there any particular Xenos you were thinking of? (I can't imagine your chapter would be using Tyranid equipment or that of the Orks :( ) Most people seem to favour the idea of working with the Tau.

 

Just some thoughts for you.

[ShasVa]

Marines would not think of bionics are cooler - more 'necessary' or 'productive'. Iron Hands see the flesh as weak, whilst others use bionics as a replacement for lost limbs or enhancement. You could go with the idea of your Chapter feeling that bionics enhance the human condition, or perhaps they have a closer connection to the machine spirit and the adoption of such bionics is a religious union and act.

 

I like what you said about "enhancing the human condition". The chapter would use bionics and cybernetics as an advantage over their enemies.

Tampering with equipment is a bit of a taboo in the Imperium as almost all of it is a relic of a lost age. Experimenting with existing patterns (i.e. creating variant Razorbacks and Land Raiders) usually happen as the result of a campaign. You are not really going to be given high grade equipment by the Imperium, unless you were created specifically to serve the Inquisition or if you find lost tech (rare, and usually on a small level). Were there any particular Xenos you were thinking of? (I can't imagine your chapter would be using Tyranid equipment or that of the Orks :P ) Most people seem to favour the idea of working with the Tau.

 

So I cannot have the chapter create Battlecannon-Predators, or reduce squad sizes so they can all ride around in Razorbacks? The Dark Angels created the Land Raider Ares and apparently didn't share it. Likewisee with the Blood Angels and their Baal Predator. Now out-right attaching a Railgun or Death Ray to a Land Raider may be forbidden, but surely even a little bit of innovation with existing Imperium tech, or reverse-engineered Xenos tech, could be permitted?

 

Or would I have to go way outside the box with that (Dark Age of Technology army) if I wanted it so??

 

Xenos wise, Tau are what I was thinking of. Possibly limited Necron tech as well (probably no Death Ray Predators or Heat Ray Land Speeders though LOL).

[Myxx]

to a degree, the reason that the DA and BA can get away with messing with things and keeping it secret, is because they are a first founding legion/chapter. Other examples are often campaign specific and only become accepted after carefully scrutiny by the Admech, and often quite a bit of time.

 

the problem with creating new tech is that no one knows how. Machines are not tools to be used, they are worshiped and revered, in some cases, messing with them is heresy. And in most other cases, using xeno tech is also heresy.

[ShasVa]

Machines are not tools to be used, they are worshiped and revered, in some cases, messing with them is heresy. And in most other cases, using xeno tech is also heresy.

 

That is a shame. :)

 

So short of calling them a "lost hi-tech branch of DAoT-era mankind" or a "renegade chapter with close admech and xenos ties", is there no way around this?

[ironloki]

Machines are not tools to be used, they are worshiped and revered, in some cases, messing with them is heresy. And in most other cases, using xeno tech is also heresy.

 

That is a shame. :P

 

So short of calling them a "lost hi-tech branch of DAoT-era mankind" or a "renegade chapter with close admech and xenos ties", is there no way around this?

 

Well, there could be a way around it (there normally is one way or another). One way is to ignore the advice here and charge on ahead and play with your buddies. After all, this Chapter is yours to do with as you please and as long as you and your buddies are fine then game on. However, you may come into a little bit of bother if you decided to post your ideas online (The online community in general can get very angry when it comes to heresy ;) )

 

One way would be to simply have one unit who are Xeno-tech influenced. Have your Chapter just very interested in finding more about the Xenos - the better you know your enemy the better you can kill them. I think it is a bit of a stretch to have everything in your army using Xeno tech, but you could have say a Sternguard unit who have been outfitted with modified Xeno weaponry. Basically your own version of the Deathwatch. You could give them some sort of modified vehicle (Since they can take a Razorback or Rhino) and have a Xeno-themed HQ tag along.

[ShasVa]

I still maintain that they would use modified Xenos weaponry, not actual Xenos weaponry. For example, their most basic weapon, the Bolter, would be modified to fire pulsed-plasma charges, similar to that of the Tau pulse weapons. With regards to existing Imperial technology, it would also be modified. One being that their Predators now come with Battlecannons as standard.

 

One thing I should clarify is that their tolerance for certain xenos is not as it may seem. If anything, the Teramarines have simply used certain races for their technology. Unlike many who would view this as heresy, the chapter would call it gaining the advantage over the enemies of mankind. Conveniently however, this belief does not and never will extend to anything Chaos-influenced, which the chapter sorely hates (and rightly so).

 

Teramarines venerate the Emperor as he was - an exceptional human being and nothing more. The populace they watch over on the homeworld venerates him in the same way, for the chapter adheres to the original ideals of Imperial Truth adamantly, and they also believe that to go against this ideal is an affront to the Emperor's memory and what he stood for. Any world they encounter that worships the Emperor as a god is given an ultimatum - change or perish. Anyone who has read the novel "The First Heretic" may see a similarity here to what happened to that city Lorgar built, which got promptly destroyed by the Ultramarines. Likewise, any encountered force that would worship the Emperor as a god is swiftly "taken care of"!

 

Make no mistake - the Teramarines are no hippy-Astartes. Although they have a humanitarian side on par with that of the Ultramarines and the Salamanders, they are no less violent when it comes to warfare. Given their disdain for religion (echoing the Emperor's own feelings) and their abhorrence of organisations and cults like the Imperial Echlessiarchy, they could be mistaken for violent brutes, like some more barbaric chapters. If the Teramarines are anything at all, they are methodical, logical, and strategic to the extreme. Their violent warrior sides are only ever unleashed on the battlefield, and they will use almost every advantage they can muster to achieve victory (with the obvious exception of using Chaos stuff of course!). This includes the modification of recovered or even stolen Xenos weapons and devices.

[Ecritter]

The big question in this case is always gonna be ... WHY?

 

Bolters have served the Space Marines for tens of thousands of years. Space Marines are the best of the best, why would they change thier equipment to be more like lesser beings (yes they see them as lesser beings).

 

Next question is gonna be ... HOW?

 

Space Marines don't have the knowledge to create new equipment, nor do they sit around thinking of new ways to do things. Chapter Techmarines are trained by the AdMech ... so they're gonna go by what they're taught. "The Machine Spirit giveth ... the Maching Spirit taketh away."

 

If anyone is gonna make new equipment (for the most part) its gonna be the AdMech. Yes a few (very special) Chapters have modified or combined the ability of multiple weapon systems ... but I'm not aware of any using Xeno tech or making new tech themselves.

 

Last question ... WHAT WILL IT REALLY ADD TO THE CHAPTER?

 

Is all this really necessary, or do you just want your Marines to be really cool.

 

 

That's my 3 cents.

[Andrew J]

First off I think it could be done, you just need a good justification for it as Ecritter said WHY? Did something happen in the past the changed the fortunes of the chapter to this new path? As long as you have a well written creative backstory you can get away with almost anything in an IA. Now thats not to say its easy, just possible. The way it sounds now you have some ideas you think are cool and you want a chapter to have them. The only problem is it makes the chapter stick out from the normal marines as uber-bada**es. Changing the equipment to new and exciting stuff sounds awesome only it doesnt fit well within the confines of the stagnation of the 40k Imperium.

 

Now of course all that being said you could easily come up with some reasons why they did this.

 

"The chapter is in the far reaches of the eastern fringe, comes underattack from a huge Tau force and has to resort to using their own weapons against them when their own weapons run out of ammo and forgeworld is destroyed. A lone high ranking brother/techmarine sees the effectiveness of some of the Tau weapons and decides to "tinker" with some of their weapons. This brother/techmarine shows the effectiveness of the modified weapons to the Chapter Master, who instead of executing him for heresy sees the ability to use this against the enemies of mankind."

 

Just what I came up with right now. Some members might not like the route you go with your chapter but as others have said its YOUR chapter and if you think that is cool and want to use it thats up to you. I like it and would love to see some of the conversions of preds with battlecannons and modified bolters etc.

 

Hope that helps.

[Ace Debonair]

I still maintain that they would use modified Xenos weaponry, not actual Xenos weaponry. For example, their most basic weapon, the Bolter, would be modified to fire pulsed-plasma charges, similar to that of the Tau pulse weapons. With regards to existing Imperial technology, it would also be modified. One being that their Predators now come with Battlecannons as standard.

 

My advice would be to not replace the bolter!

Either you're explicitly giving your marines better guns than everyone else's marines, or it's a pointless detail and doesn't add anything to the chapter - so both negatives, really, since nobody wants to read something that basically goes 'my DIY chapter's better than yours'. :blink:

 

Crazy 'Xeno-Imperial tech hybrid' weapons to replace some of the bigger guns would make more sense - and be easier to hide from inquisitors who might not approve of your Chapter's 'the-weapon-of-the-enemy-is-a-gift' attitude.

 

Predators might be a bit trickier, but a canny Chapter might well keep a few ordinary predators about if only to show to the inquisitors. :huh:

Or if they're using pure Imperial tech, claim they came from a forgeworld/factory world across the galaxy that you were issued with during a crusade. Hopefully the Inquisitor won't have the time to go and check, and if he does he might well kick the bucket amidst the galaxy of vast perils before he gets back to complain at you.

 

As a side note, Ultramarines geneseed is remarkably flexible - there's some pretty far-out canon UM successors, but I can't recall their names off-hand.* :)

I think the Mortifactors were one, but someone more knowledgable is bound to correct me within five posts or so if I'm wrong!

 

EDIT:

*There's also my DIY the Infinity Knights, who cut bits off dead marines to prevent them going to waste. That's pretty unusual, and they've got UM lineage. :devil:

[Lysimachus]

Very much agree not to change bolters, if they're using xenotech it should be much more subtle e.g. reverse engineering tau plasma tech to make their plas pistols/guns/cannons slightly less powerful but safer and better energy storage (more shots), etc, etc.

[ShasVa]

You've all given me a fair bit to think about. I'm also going to read the other IA articles, to see if I can gather ideas for the Teramarines.

 

I will give consideration to not using xenos tech, but also, to the idea of modifying existing Imperial tech. At the very least the Teramarines could learn from the Tau and figure out how to not make their infantry-grade plasma weapons explode.

 

EDIT: I've decided on the following points...

 

- Modified Xenos weaponry will be limited only to a few select members of the Teramarines.

- There will be no army-wide Bolter changes.

- Inspired by the DIY Chapter "The Thousand Swords", they will be almost atheistic.

- They will have disdain for anything religious, including but not limited to; the Echlessiarchy, Chaos cults, Astartes who venerate the Emperor as a god...the list goes on!

- They will still experiment with existing Imperial technology.

[ShasVa]

I should clarify that one important reason why I am revisiting the creation of my own DIY chapter is because, in my opinion, marines are relatively easier to assemble than the Necrons. The latter race has caused me no end of problems in the hobby, and though I have a mate who'd be willing to assemble them for me, I'm still not so sure on the Necrons anymore.

 

So yeah, the Teramarines could be the army I (finally) go with in the near future.