stormbolter Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hi all Sorry if this has been answered in an earlier thread but it has been playing on my mind abit. The Grey Knights or Knight Errants ( which ever you want to call them) were formed during the Heresy, I understand that part and that they were hidden away. But who the heck was Janus ? If loken remembered who he was then do you think we could have a re-match between him and the despoiler and if so who would you have write it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3082842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormbolter Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 thanks for the welcome :tu: hmm i hope its not going to be one of those BL things that they never tell you and you are left to wonder...... i hate that :wacko: Also what do you think about the Abbadon / loken rematch ?? Who do you think would do it justice if it were to happen? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3082866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. well, considering that loken has been crushed by a titan/falling building, survived a virus bomb,, survived a duel with abby, punked lucius the eternal, took a world eater in cc, pwned the 2 marines the WE was with, and then came back to his sanity with a single sentence... i believe that loken will manifest whatever abilites the BL decides to give him. maybe he is a latent psyker that abilities were brought out by the trauma he suffered in being so awesome. :P WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3082987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Well welcome to the B&C. Yes this topic has been done and redone but i for one live for the times i can spout off on the 8 founding Grey Knight Grand Masters. Garro will change his name to Janus (all GK's take new names when they join) and continue to lead the group, Loken will retake the name Cerberus. Those who will try and tell you that these and others clearly have no psyker talents, have had the wool pulled over their eyes, been bamboozled, hoodwinked ect. They were the same group who tried to tell us that Loken was 100% dead and that there could be no other loyalist survivors of Isstavan III (/WRONG). There are many subtle hints of their future powers but it has been so well done that most have missed it. I think a great deal of the HH stories to date are the tales of these 8 foundling GK GM's. I also think we will eventually get the full story, though it will be dragged WAY out. GW has said that Garro's band are involved in the creation of the GK's but have not come out and said who they will be. I am not so sure about a HH Loken vs Abaddon rematch. I do however think Loken will kill lil Horus. This will have to be done by Mr Abnett. One day in the future we might see a 40k era rematch of the fight you seek. I might be the only one to think Loken Lives in 40k, still the undying amongst the dead.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 He was just one of the first eight. For all we know, he might have been a chapter master or company commander from whatever legion he was from, and might have had more leadership abilities than Garro, so Malcador put him in charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 the Emperor made the GK The Emperor probably gave them psychic abilities? I know Garro goes recruiting old Librarians, but couldn't the founders be given special powers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Isn't Garro ---> Founding Grey Knight still fan speculation? Sure there's circumstantial evidence that says it's likely but it isn't set in stone yet, is it? It hasn't really been telegraphed yet, let alone stated outright. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Isn't Garro ---> Founding Grey Knight still fan speculation? Sure there's circumstantial evidence that says it's likely but it isn't set in stone yet, is it? It hasn't really been telegraphed yet, let alone stated outright. :huh: I would think its more likely for Garrus to be Ordo Hereticus or Xenos rather than Malleus. Jannus is probably some random pysker. Like Telicanus said, he may have been put in charge simply becuase he was a higher rank. well, considering that loken has been crushed by a titan/falling building, survived a virus bomb,, survived a duel with abby, punked lucius the eternal, took a world eater in cc, pwned the 2 marines the WE was with, and then came back to his sanity with a single sentence... i believe that loken will manifest whatever abilites the BL decides to give him. maybe he is a latent psyker that abilities were brought out by the trauma he suffered in being so awesome. :) WLK This had to be sigged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. I'm curious as to why people seem to be assuming that Janus was a psyker? :D We're not told anywhere that he is, its not so much as hinted at in C:GK (or anywhere else) that he's a psyker. In fact, based on the fact that he's specifically mentioned as being one of the eight chosen by Malcador at the Emperor's behest, its more than likely that he wasn't a psyker (although if Janus was in fact Garro, theres a good chance he was in fact a latent psyker, not only does Libertas have the hallmarks of a force weapon but Garro himself displays what appear to be latent talents in Flight of the Eisenstein). Isn't Garro ---> Founding Grey Knight still fan speculation? Sure there's circumstantial evidence that says it's likely but it isn't set in stone yet, is it? It hasn't really been telegraphed yet, let alone stated outright. :huh: C:GK makes it pretty clear that the Grey Knights were formed by the eight Marines Malcador recruited on the Emperor's orders (in fact, its made explicit that thats the case), and from the HH novels and audiobooks we can deduce that Garro and those he was recruiting (under Malcador's aegis) are those eight Marines. I would think its more likely for Garrus to be Ordo Hereticus or Xenos rather than Malleus. None of the eight Marines chosen by Malcador played any role in the formation of the Inquisition, C:GK tells us that quite clearly, that was the task of the four mortals he chose. The Marines were tasked with the formation of the Grey Knights. Edit - For those who want to read up on it for themselves, the information on the founding of the Grey Knight's can all be found on pages 6 & 7 of C:GK (page 6 has the info on the eight). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormbolter Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 I am not so sure about a HH Loken vs Abaddon rematch. I do however think Loken will kill lil Horus. This will have to be done by Mr Abnett. One day in the future we might see a 40k era rematch of the fight you seek. I might be the only one to think Loken Lives in 40k, still the undying amongst the dead.. sorry can't work out how to black the back ground Spoiler alert in the latest grey knight novel, there is a part when the the main guy goes to the dead fields and sees the first 8 in their graves so i think it is doubtful he will be around :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerorunner Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 All of the first eight don't necessarily need to be psykers. They would just need to be able to build a chapter out of raw recruits, that would need to know how to face daemons. The ones we know about so far definitely know how to train recruits to fight, and we know a few of them have faced warp entities. We just need the rest of the stories to find out who comes up with the GKs psychic powers and such. I definitely can't get enough tales of Garro, so I'm hanging on the edge of my seat for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3083729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. I'm curious as to why people seem to be assuming that Janus was a psyker? :lol: We're not told anywhere that he is, its not so much as hinted at in C:GK (or anywhere else) that he's a psyker. In fact, based on the fact that he's specifically mentioned as being one of the eight chosen by Malcador at the Emperor's behest, its more than likely that he wasn't a psyker (although if Janus was in fact Garro, theres a good chance he was in fact a latent psyker, not only does Libertas have the hallmarks of a force weapon but Garro himself displays what appear to be latent talents in Flight of the Eisenstein). Isn't Garro ---> Founding Grey Knight still fan speculation? Sure there's circumstantial evidence that says it's likely but it isn't set in stone yet, is it? It hasn't really been telegraphed yet, let alone stated outright. :) C:GK makes it pretty clear that the Grey Knights were formed by the eight Marines Malcador recruited on the Emperor's orders (in fact, its made explicit that thats the case), and from the HH novels and audiobooks we can deduce that Garro and those he was recruiting (under Malcador's aegis) are those eight Marines. I would think its more likely for Garrus to be Ordo Hereticus or Xenos rather than Malleus. None of the eight Marines chosen by Malcador played any role in the formation of the Inquisition, C:GK tells us that quite clearly, that was the task of the four mortals he chose. The Marines were tasked with the formation of the Grey Knights. Edit - For those who want to read up on it for themselves, the information on the founding of the Grey Knight's can all be found on pages 6 & 7 of C:GK (page 6 has the info on the eight). I /agree 98%. Two minor points i would argue. 1) In the Collected Visions, where we first learned about the eight Astartes taken by Malcador before the Emperor, it s made clear that they all, in addition to being loyal beyond any doubt, have "Special" talents kept dormant at the emperors command. To me that says they were all eight at least latent psykers. 2) While i agree the eight were not the ones to create the =][=, the inner circle of the =][= has ALWAYS, even in the beginning, had a Grey Knight among its number. How this all plays out remains to be seen, but to say they had no role in the formation of the =][= may be a bit wrong. Even with the 2 nit picks i must say it is great to not be the only one to see what you so clearly do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I /agree 98%. Two minor points i would argue. 1) In the Collected Visions, where we first learned about the eight Astartes taken by Malcador before the Emperor, it s made clear that they all, in addition to being loyal beyond any doubt, have "Special" talents kept dormant at the emperors command. To me that says they were all eight at least latent psykers. None of which really counters that Garro and Company are the eight though. Of those we've been introduced to through the books thus far Rubio is a former Librarian, Garro displays abilities that can only best be described as unnatural (and Libertas screams force weapon), Loken's survival against phenomenal odds suggests either latent abilities or divine intervention (its also the sort of event that could trigger some latent potential). Theres a good chance that all of the eight recruited (including Garro) are in fact latent psykers (even if they don't realise it). All of which is, of course, speculative at the moment. :P 2) While i agree the eight were not the ones to create the =][=, the inner circle of the =][= has ALWAYS, even in the beginning, had a Grey Knight among its number. How this all plays out remains to be seen, but to say they had no role in the formation of the =][= may be a bit wrong. Thats not quite right, C:GK makes it clear that the Inquisition was formed by the four mortals that Malcador recruited alongside the eight (the Visions books also allude to it). None of the eight had any role in the formation of the Inquisition, they were tasked only with forming the Grey Knights and were removed from the Universe at large while doing so (C:GK, pp. 6-7). Even with the 2 nit picks i must say it is great to not be the only one to see what you so clearly do. Likewise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I /agree 98%. Two minor points i would argue. 1) In the Collected Visions, where we first learned about the eight Astartes taken by Malcador before the Emperor, it s made clear that they all, in addition to being loyal beyond any doubt, have "Special" talents kept dormant at the emperors command. To me that says they were all eight at least latent psykers. None of which really counters that Garro and Company are the eight though. Of those we've been introduced to through the books thus far Rubio is a former Librarian, Garro displays abilities that can only best be described as unnatural (and Libertas screams force weapon), Loken's survival against phenomenal odds suggests either latent abilities or divine intervention (its also the sort of event that could trigger some latent potential). Theres a good chance that all of the eight recruited (including Garro) are in fact latent psykers (even if they don't realise it). All of which is, of course, speculative at the moment. :lol: Counter Garro and crew are the eight?? You got me all wrong. What i was poo pooing is that the eight might not all be psykers. You and others seem to hold that it is possible that the GK founders may be normal astartes with no special talents other then their loyalty to the Emperor. That maybe they only trained them how to be marines and some other group taught them how to use their powers. I find that idea unacceptable. That would be a shaky foundation to build such an important organization. Instead of fighting the naysayers on that front, i think we should strive to show them that the ones we feel are on Malcador's list do have potential. Not that it will change many minds. To them, when the alien child psyker speaks to Garro, in his mind, they don't see how that "proves" Garro is a psyker. Maybe the child psyker is so strong he can force his mind on non psykers. We see Libertas as a Force sword and they can only see a old power sword with a name. So what if Garro and Loken have a strong strange reaction to the War-singers death scream. They are both probably squeamish or overly sensitive to the plight of the poor woman who is destroyed..... I wonder if you have a list of 8? Who do you think they will be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 They don't all have to be psykers. They will probably all be responsible for different areas. The psyker, Rubio, is probably the one that gets their psyker program going. The World Eater is probably the one that trains them in combat, same with Loken. Stuff like that. Each was brought for a reason, and even if Rubio is the only psyker, he can train all of the newer ones. First he starts with five, then the six of them will train more, and so on and so forth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuclearship Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Well, Grey Knights let go of their old names. It is very possible that Garro get's a new name. He was the found of the order, so Janus should be him. Or a hereitcal idea. Maybe the Sigilte saved Hastur seJANUS from certain death and cast an illusion on his state. So he, as the purest soul, could be saved from Horus and corruption...hehe...never mind...just thinking :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaurdian31 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Maybe Omegon or Alpharius as they are both two faced, like Janus is supposed to be.... ;) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiongshen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Actually, I was thinking that Omegon might be Janus also. The Alpha Legion story in The Primarchs made me think that maybe he was growing somewhat disheartened by the way Alpharius was approaching the heresy and with their role on the side of Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3084840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaintMyBits Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Im with this thinking that Omegon is Janus, especially after reading Primarchs. Although the codex does say that the gene seed for the GKs was new and carried the emperors own flesh and soul, it required leadership. These collected eight were that leadership, they resisted corruption through faith and force of will. Psychic or not we know they were not gene related to their new chapter 666 but with their faith and interruptibility they were the perfect candidates to train the grey knights. And if omegon is Janus then this chapter will have its primach( After all technically its a first founding chapter?) Albeit a surrogate. Plus i think it would make for some awesome twists if Alpharius and Omegon were hiding stuff from each other like ultimately having loyalties to opposing sides. Brothers turning on each other is very believable (the primarchs) but there is something about twins in my mind that makes the betrayal even deeper because you share the same identity almost. Of course i could be completely wrong and you should ignore everything i just said. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3086680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 im not sure abut all you guys but i think the 8 still live and i believe loken and garro become psykers and form the greys but if u remeber in the collected visions there is picture of garro changing his left arm gauntlet silver with malcodor I on the shoulder pad the same sign the deathwatch use and that itself is a huge hint. but we only 6 of the 8 did any of you think of the idea that the other two could be from one of the missing legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3199957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I've been thinking about this for a bit actually. They state that the Inquisition was formed for 4 mortals and 8 space marine. So far we know of garro (death guard), loken (Luna wolf), iacton crude (Luna wolf) messa varren (world eater) and rubios (ultramarine). That leaves us with 3you grand masters we have yet to see. That is so long as those first 8 knight errants became the 8grand masters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3199974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Hawk Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. well, considering that loken has been crushed by a titan/falling building, survived a virus bomb,, survived a duel with abby, punked lucius the eternal, took a world eater in cc, pwned the 2 marines the WE was with, and then came back to his sanity with a single sentence... i believe that loken will manifest whatever abilites the BL decides to give him. maybe he is a latent psyker that abilities were brought out by the trauma he suffered in being so awesome. :P WLK Oh Gawd-Emprah, don't go there, please, no! Now look what you've done, WLK! We will never hear the end of this. I predict at least 5 pages of pointless 'discussion', until the mods finally delete the thread. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3200041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykra Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 If loken remembered who he was then do you think we could have a re-match between him and the despoiler and if so who would you have write it? Abaddon would crush Loken, he's just not in the same league. I just can't see that being a good fight to write, as it would basically boil down to Loken giving some heroic speech about how he was going to stop the traitor, yadda yadda, and Abby just replying 'Nuh-uh' and laying a beatdown. If Loken has a 'main fight' forming, it has to be against Little Horus. In fact, after reading the stories in Age of Darkness and Galaxy in Flames I think it has to happen, and I am really looking forward to that one. My first instinct would be to say let Abnett write it as he started the whole chain, so he seems like the logical choice to close it up, but none of the BL writers have failed me so far so I think they would all be capable of doing it properly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3200192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Welcome first of all. As for Janus, we don't know. Since he's a psyker he can't be Loken nor Garro but he's probably one of gents hired by Garro. well, considering that loken has been crushed by a titan/falling building, survived a virus bomb,, survived a duel with abby, punked lucius the eternal, took a world eater in cc, pwned the 2 marines the WE was with, and then came back to his sanity with a single sentence... i believe that loken will manifest whatever abilites the BL decides to give him. maybe he is a latent psyker that abilities were brought out by the trauma he suffered in being so awesome. :P WLK what book says he was crushed by a titan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/#findComment-3200633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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