Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 he was also killed on isstvan 3 he was about to fight loken but got squashed by a land raider Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3205804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colossus Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The "Eight" are actually the only surviving Librarians of the World Eaters. The World Eaters hoped that by having eight, Khornes sacred number, Khorne would be appeased- the Librarians knew better and legged it to Terra, where they shed blood and take skull and stuff. This pleases Khorne. On a serious note, Khârn is most definitely not on the list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3205926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Dantioch is a loyal iron warrior so its a good guess as for omegon your gonna have to look at the topic called A very weird idea I just had to share about Sevatar Khârn is also on the list I looked for it, but all I could find was someone saying that Omegon would make a better candidate than Sevatar. No explanation was given, no reasoning, nothing nada zip. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3205968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Dantioch is a loyal iron warrior so its a good guess as for omegon your gonna have to look at the topic called A very weird idea I just had to share about Sevatar Khârn is also on the list I looked for it, but all I could find was someone saying that Omegon would make a better candidate than Sevatar. No explanation was given, no reasoning, nothing nada zip. I think the reasoning for Omegon was that the first Grandmaster is called Janus, and Janus was a two-headed roman god, and the two-headed part kind of fits Omegon. Also at the end of the AL short story in Primarchs it mentions a special suit of armour in Omegons private quarters that is covered by a sheet, which could be Knights-Errant armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3208090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 what he said and if you read the primarchs feat of iron when ferrus manus sees the statues one is an angel - sangainius janus- alpharius/omegon etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3209998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agellos Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 How about this. In "Mortarion's Heart"; Mortarion tells the newly promoted Kaldor Draigo that he is mora like Janus than he could ever imagine ( and that his identity will shake the GK to the core). Kaldor was promoted to Supreme Grand Master, against the wishes of the prognosticars ( it was not his Fate), after the death of Geronita. James Swallow told us that Garro will not become a GK, and that there are more twists to his story. So Garro or Loken are destined to become the first Supreme Grand Master, but one of them dies before his time. Fanfic - he is killed by Abaddon aboard the Vengeful Spirit, while lowering it's shield's, causing Little Horus to finally turn against Abaddon ( by this time Horus is already dead) and winning with Loken. Abaddon flees and Little Horus becomes Janus/Kyhron - Fanfic end. Epimetheus is probably Zahariel ( there is new story where he follows Cypher, doing something plus he is almost certanly a Dark Angel), Varren is to rash to be a leader. Jago Sevatarion (People suggest him, don't know why) would be a great shock so it's unlikely ( but would make a great story). I have no idead who Umojen is ( Lexicanum lists him as a Knight-Errant ), Rubio is too blank. Iacton either dies or becomes a Grand Master ( Abaddon say in Pandorax that he killed one of his brothers ). Alpharius/Omegon would be a great idea. Though it was said in both Pandorax and Emperor's Gift that the geneseed of the GK was replaced by a more "purerer" one. Adding to the Fanfic above it would be fun for Little Horus to become Janus :D ( the only problem is that Titan is probably already in the warp by this time.....) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well in Pandorax; Abbadon describes Epimetheus as once a brother of 10, now 8. 8 Knights Errant that serve under Malcador have been named so far, with the identity of another being revealed in Pandorax; (f you''ll note there's been hints in the series so far that there are others that serve under different masters. See; "Riven" Garro, Qurze, Rubio, Varren, Varksjold (Dec.), Umojen (Sallie Chief Lib), Severian, Zaherial, Loken So that leaves one slot in Malcador's 10 left which could be filled by numerous potential candidates; Sev., Narek and Arvida to name a few. The trouble is only four candidates in that list are psykers, and another with potential psychic abilities. (Loken, though I highly doubt that.) So with that in consideration we can safely assume that not all of Malcador's Knights Errant will become Grey Knights. Some will die, and one already has, with another heavily hinted to die in a upcoming novel. So perhaps some of the Knights Errant under different employment will become one of the founding 8 and whos to say that the current members of the 10 will not be replaced if they get killed. Arvida is currently on route to Terra afterall.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Has Zaherial been named a Knights Errant? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No, but Pandorax made it clear that he is a Grey Knight founder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 it never said he was zaherial Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There is a knight Errant in 'all that remains' from 'The Imperial Truth' Anyone remember who that is? I thought it was another thousand son? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 it never said he was zaherial Not in the exact words no, but it was pretty clear. In the acknowledgements at the end of the book C.Z Dunn even writes "I would like to thank several of my fellow authors [snip] Mitchel Scanlon and Mike Lee for what I hope by now is obvious". Mitchel Scanlon and Mike Lee being the authors of Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels respectively. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 IIRC, didn't someone throw up a theory that Epimethus was actually Cypher and Zahariel took Cypher's place, to do the whole destiny-switch thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for pointing that out I didn't know about that in the acknowledgement:-D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agellos Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 But was Cypher a prodigous Psyker like Epimetheus later? I think it was Cypher who took Zaherial's place and is now "scattered by the winds, with a holy sword". Plus we have Cypher and Zaherial in the latest Cypher short story ( didn't read it yet). And Cypher alread knows about the knights errant Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think it was mentioned but I haven't seen any real evidence. Cypher hasn't shown any evidence of being a psyker (yet) where as Zahariel has, and a pretty strong one to boot, very fitting for a GK founder. The passage from Pandorax is: "This was not foreseen. A different path was laid out for you, yet you do not walk it. How can that be?" There was genuine fear in the daemon's voices. "Somebody switched places with me. That is now his path to walk" Also, it's okay to post very small passages from novels right? I don't want to be breaking any rules or anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 We don't know that much about Cypher. Except that even before he took the role he was a guardian of forbidden lore and in Fallen Angels he is the guy who painted Luther up in hexagrammic wards. So he does have some experience with the warp. And honestly, if Cypher was already the one scattered to the winds, then wouldn't all they have to do to make it obvious is "Epimethus is a Dark Angel Librarian." But from what I hear, what they did was "Epimethus is a Dark Angel psyker who has switched destinies with someone else." One thing I've noticed is that when someone from BL says "It's obvious" there seems to be an obvious answer, and then a "too" obvious answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 JAAAAAGGGGGOOOOOOOOOO that is all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 We don't know that much about Cypher. Except that even before he took the role he was a guardian of forbidden lore and in Fallen Angels he is the guy who painted Luther up in hexagrammic wards. So he does have some experience with the warp. And honestly, if Cypher was already the one scattered to the winds, then wouldn't all they have to do to make it obvious is "Epimethus is a Dark Angel Librarian." But from what I hear, what they did was "Epimethus is a Dark Angel psyker who has switched destinies with someone else." One thing I've noticed is that when someone from BL says "It's obvious" there seems to be an obvious answer, and then a "too" obvious answer. Nope, the other main bit of evidence is The passage I posted before, a conversation between Epimetheus and a Lord of Change, Epimetheus says he knows the Lord of Change and that it turned half a Legion (DA), and the reason he knows its true name is because he recognised it. He then lets the LoC look into his mind, and the LoC freaks, realises who it is and says "No! It cannot be. You! The one who defied me, who nearly unravelled everything". That pretty much fits the events of Fallen Angels. Also Epimetheus in Classical mythology (which is what the GK founders new names are based on) was the brother of Prometheus. I only know of two DA who share blood, Nemiel and Zahariel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yeah, but recall that here we have Cypher who is in the middle of everything and was the one who brought Zahariel into the whole mix. If one wanted to, one could say Cypher was playing the puppeteer. there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to do so. So who is really the one who defied the daemon, the one who banished it, or the one who orchestrated the banishing, if that one did indeed orchestrate it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Was Cypher maybe misunderstood as he was giving the hexagramic wards to Luther in an effort to protect/ shield him from chaos and Luther went the other way? Maybe Cypher saw what was happening through some form of divination and tried to make some contingency planning in the form of Zahriel and the wards? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Maybe that's why they had to kill of nemiel because he would have had to kill zaharial :-\ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yeah, but recall that here we have Cypher who is in the middle of everything and was the one who brought Zahariel into the whole mix. If one wanted to, one could say Cypher was playing the puppeteer. there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to do so. So who is really the one who defied the daemon, the one who banished it, or the one who orchestrated the banishing, if that one did indeed orchestrate it? Not sure if you're just playing devil's advocate or if you actually don't believe it's Zahariel Why would the daemon recognise Cypher? Zahariel is the one who banished/refused it. Luther was the mastermind behind the whole thing, if the daemon did want to blame someone rather than the one who banished it (why would it?) it would blame Luther. Another thing, at the end of Fallen Angels it is revealed that Zahariel now knows the daemon's true name, and chooses not to reveal it to anyone. Epimetheus also knows the daemons true name, and he himself says it isn't because he is a Grey Knight, and that he learnt it before being inducted into their ranks. I haven't read Fallen Angels for a while, so I can't remember if it's Cypher that organises the summoning or Luther, but recent fluff has indicated that Cypher leads a group of Calibanite loyalists against Luther, and one of the audio books also casts light on Cypher's loyalties. There is also little doubt that the current 40k Cypher is the Cypher shown so far in the HH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Devil's advocate. Luther wanted to bind the daemon. But everything he read, was guarded by Cypher. Everything he learned, was because Cypher let him. Cypher just really seemed to hit the "puppeteer" archetype. And honestly, it just seems..... "Too" obvious. Obvious in the same way everyone saw Khyrion's statue with a chainglaive and immediately went "It has to be Sevatar because he has a chainglaive." Or the "Janus was used to metaphorically describe the relationship between Omegon and Alpharius so even though Omegon is the one we see making it possible for Chaos to actually win, the Grand Master Janus must be Omegon because Mortarion knew who Janus was. Even though no one can explain how Mortarion knew who Omegon was." It just strikes the wrong note so to speak. Those same books that told Luther that not only said that the serpent-shaped daemon existed, but where it was located? Cypher has been with those books since the Lion first took him to Alduruhk. Zahariel did learn the daemon's true name, yes. He fits the bill. But we have that can prove Cypher doesn't. He is an ambiguous player. And like I said, they could have made it "obvious" in a much simpler way. But going to such lengths to make it so obvious just makes me think of the old Tom and Jerry cartoons where Tom would put a piece of cheese and a hook and Jerry would follow it around until he saw Tom. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Out of curiosity what's the link between the Knights Erranta and the Grey Knight founders? Is it just that they're both groups of space marines that Malcador brought together? Or is there something more? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/4/#findComment-3596515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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