Agellos Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The problem with Dark Angel fluff is that it can always go both ways. As i see it there is no evidence that Cypher is a psyker, the HH "Lord Cypher" has some knowledge of the warp; Zahariel, thanks to The Lion killing Nemiel, has a reason to fall and is a psyker so he is the prime candidate for Epimetheus. P.s. Has anybody noticed the 40k Cypher's modus operendi - he has a plan, it fails, and ends up benefiting his apparent enemy ( The Emperor) - he is the antiTzeentch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If by fail, you mean he stole DA gene-seed killed a few recruits in their sleep and then held an entire planet hostage while made his escape and by the end of the novel, some Dark Angels ended up dying, then yeah he failed and the Imperium benefited from lost gene-seed and dead Loyal Astartes. EDIT: Why would Zahariel having a reason to fall make him a Grey Knight candidate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Just to confirm here, pandorax happens in 40k, but a grand master epithemus/ supposedly zeharial from 30k is in it, retconning oldest living marine to nigh on 10k years old? And you can also now replace geneseed of all things? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Have you read the salamanders trilogy? Survivor from istvaan 10000yrs later dies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Mein gott in himmel.... looks like ill be buying that trilogy to see what the funk is going on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm abit weak on my Greek Mythology these days, but didn't Prometheus sacrifice Chrion to give mankind the gift of fire. So... Vulkan giving up Umojen to give mankind the gift of fire... Therefore it's quite possible that Umojen will turn out to be Khyron. Oooh I forgot about the 1kson Knight Errant, I don't think he gave a name. Which would actually suggest he is Arvida as at the time that was published Scars hadn't been released. (To avoid spoilers) I think your right Kol about the link of Omegon being Janus being a little too obvious, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced Sevatar/Loken will become Janus rather than Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The idea of Marines making it to 40K isn't exactly new. Zso Sahaal made it there through being trapped in a warp bubble. The Salamander made it by going in and out of comas. Between the two, Zso Sahaal made it out better since all he had to do was cough up some dust and he was good to go while the other guy died mere minutes after being discovered. As for how Epithemus would have made it could be anyone's guess. As for changing gene-seed, can't say I've ever heard of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agellos Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Epimetheus says that his gene-seed was replaced, and it is almost confirmed that he was a Fallen ( Pandorax). The Knights-Errant laid the foundings of the Grey Knights but perhaps none were the original 8 Grand Masters ( except for Rubio ). Loken, Varren, Qruze and Garro all were sacrificed for the greater good ( making of a new geneseed). And thus the pure knights are grey. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Apparently the GK founders all had their gene-seed replaced with the GK gene-seed, can't remember the source. Where did the Space Wolf and Thousand Son Knights-Errant come from? Spoilers are fine if anyone knows Epimetheus survives the 10,000 years just through using his Sus-an membrane and psyker powers apparently. All it says in Pandorax is that he used his implants and set up wards to wake him up if anything disturbs his chamber. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Have you read the salamanders trilogy? Survivor from istvaan 10000yrs later dies Wasn't Scoria stuck in a warp storm before the Salamanders made it there? He's certainly old, since his muscles atrophied and his armor fused with his throne, but he didn't necessarily live through 10,000 years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The Space Wolf appeared in a short story called; "Echoes of the Long Night" which was printed in the BL 2012 Games Day Anthology. The Thousand Son appeared in a short story called "All that remains" in the Event exclusive anthology "Imperial Truth." I do believe both will eventually be reprinted (Along with the other KE stories) in an anthology book called; "The Silent War". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Have you read the salamanders trilogy? Survivor from istvaan 10000yrs later dies Wasn't Scoria stuck in a warp storm before the Salamanders made it there? He's certainly old, since his muscles atrophied and his armor fused with his throne, but he didn't necessarily live through 10,000 years. Yes and no. It was isolated by the warp storm, but it wasn't necessarily in the warp storm. And IIRC, the colonists due give their stay on the planet as being 10,000 years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3596614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Something just hit me. Epimethus/Zahariel/Cypher/Whoever-he-is mentions that someone took his place at the Fall and that he wasn't there. Wouldn't that mean that whoever he switched with, could not have been someone who would already be at the fall? So if that's the case, then who switched destinies with him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 He doesn't mention the Fall. If that is the destiny the daemon was talking about then I assume Cypher took his place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 But Cypher was already going to be at the Fall. You can't really switch destinies if they're the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 According to who? Cypher was at the Fall, who's to say he would have been if Zahariel had stayed? Perhaps Zahariel was meant to lead the resistance against Luther, but Cypher stepped in when he left. Or maybe it was Zahariel's destiny to take the Lion Sword to Terra (assuming that's what Cypher is doing in 40k) to beg forgiveness, and Cypher was just meant to be another Fallen. We really need a continuation of the DA storyline I have a feeling though that that storyline is only going to be continued as part of the KE audio books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Okay, let me counter. If Cypher wasn't going to be at the Fall even though he was on Caliban, where was he going to be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't know, I'm not a BL author/editor. Everything we know about the Fall is with hindsight, and until it's covered by the HH we won't know any different. There is a lot of evidence to point toward Epimetheus being Zahariel. There is no evidence to point to him being Cypher. Maybe it wasn't Cypher who took Epimetheus' place on the path he was supposed to walk, but Cypher has shown that he has on the Imperium's side, and knows of the KE. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 There is a lot of evidence to point toward Epimetheus being Zahariel. There is no evidence to point to him being Cypher. Maybe it wasn't Cypher who took Epimetheus' place on the path he was supposed to walk, but Cypher has shown that he has on the Imperium's side, and knows of the KE. Why can't Cypher have his own Agenda, renegade? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 There is a lot of evidence to point toward Epimetheus being Zahariel. There is no evidence to point to him being Cypher. Maybe it wasn't Cypher who took Epimetheus' place on the path he was supposed to walk, but Cypher has shown that he has on the Imperium's side, and knows of the KE. Why can't Cypher have his own Agenda, renegade? Could do, but it seems unlikely. He clearly isn't delusional, and he knows how the Imperium works, so he will know that there really isn't much he can do fighting for his own cause without a big power behind him. Apparently (haven't read it) the latest fluff on Cypher has him leading loyalist Calibanites against Luther, ala Robin Hood or the French Resistance. He also helps a Knights-Errant escape when Luther locks one of them up when they visit Caliban. In 40k he fights for the Imperium against Chaos, and for Chaos against the Imperium, especially during the 13th Black Crusade when he poses as the Voice of the Emperor and causes a large uprising against the Imperium in sectors surrounding the EoT. Not sure if this has been retconned when the EoT campaign was wiped. In short I have no idea what Cypher is doing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3597597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Has anyone mentioned Narek the (last) Word Bearer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3598355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think someone might have a page or so ago. What does he have that would make him a good KE? Loyalty I guess, and he's a good sniper, but he isn't a psyker. Never been a fan of Narek personally. Guilliman didn't seem like he was going to let him go anytime soon either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3598360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think Narek will join the Knight Errents. People saying some one is not a psyker could be wrong. Most think Loken and Garro are not but i feel they are. Same could be true for others who seem to be un gifted. Their talents could be subtle or repressed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3598404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Narek hates the Loyalists as much as the Traitors. He doesn't even have "For the good of the Imperium" going for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254004-knights-errants-grey-knights-during-the-heresy/page/5/#findComment-3598408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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