Losing Faith

[Morollan]

I agree to a certain extent but I don't think the cost is as large a factor as the power. As Vesper mentioned earlier, if Orks suddenly became the most competitive army, we would see a significant increase in their representation at tournaments. Whether they would make up 25% of the field, I don't know. But they would probably be the single biggest codex.

[Grand Master Caloth]

for me, when i moved to WA and went to GW for the first time, i played Tau, had about 1500 of them, and was rocking it. I saw the GKT model and instantly loved it. I started the army in the old codex due to the love of the models and the fluff. Loved the old midevil looking armor in a sci-fi setting, and the fluff was amazing. I took it to all the tournaments cause it was the only playable army i had (sold my tau), abd got used to hearing things like "Oh look, its a GK player" or "dude, im sorry". i learned the game with what was considered one of the hardest armies to win with, and i learned it well, learned how effective balanced armies can be, even with codex creep. Once the new dex came out, i was both happy and sadly disappointed, but i loved the army still. I kept my balanced outlook, and while the list hasd evolved in some areas (changing palis for puris, testing and eventually discarding interceptors), i generally dont get any flak cause EVERYONE on the tourny scene in my region knows me from the time of the old dex, and my dogged defence and playing them against all odd, and doing well. If you have people who complain, they are poor sports and im sorry you have to deal with it, but no matter what, play the army because it sings to that little part in your heart that feels, were they real, you would be found worthy to join their ranks. Play them because you can see the fluff as real and could stand for what they stand for. this goes for ANY army, in any system. Dont lose faith in your choice due to other people not agreeing or yelling cheese or beardy, stand by your decision, and play to the best of your ability. Play them because you enjoy the army, and ignore the poor bastards who are missing out on the true pleasures of the game when they buy and build an army simply to win games/tournaments, and not because they enjoy the army and the game itself.

 

*steps off the soapbox and goes back to work, deployed in Afghanistan*

[greatcrusade08]

It's happened. I've finally succumbed to Internet Hate. If I read one more thread, comment or blog post on any site slagging off GKs, I think I'll quit playing/painting them. I've been called a powergamer, band-wagoner and other names that deserve a :P emoticon.

 

And then there's the fluff- the terrible, atrocious fluff. My beloved Daemonhunters now are carving their names into Mortarion's heart and are all incorruptible, but some are moar incorruptible than others. When I bought the GK Codex (In September last year, I was late, I know) I hadn't really researched on the Internet, so that my first impressions wouldn't be biased. I'll admit, I knew that it was by Matt Ward, but the worst I expected was the GK being saved by the Ultramarines, or something similar. This was a whole new level of fail.

 

But I busied myself, bought the new models, carried on, and then it started. Wherever I go, Purifiers, Psyflemen & Draigo. And then the constant compaining that would inevitably follow. Now I'm a depressive, and I get more stressed about these little things than other people. So my question to you- does this sort of thing affect/annoy you? Or do you not care? And if you do, how do you deal with it?

 

whilst i feel for you i have to point out, than in pointing out that you feel bothered by anti-GK sentiment, you slipped in a dig at the ultraamrines (via matt ward).

as an ultramarine player i find that a little cheap considering the point of your post.

 

that being said, im not trying to pick a fight, merely that every faction has its "anti" sentiments.. its everwhere, and to be fair, ultramarine players have had to put up with far worse for far longer.. at least with the GK there is merit to the whine.. they are very powerful in every way and are lumbered with sucky fluff.

 

at my LGS we tend to have a dig at guys who bring the ultimate tourney style lists to what is a friendly club.. not using tounrey lists is part of our ten commandments, so IMO they deserve a little pain.

Sw are a good one for this, a new chap who plays SW got bit bothered by the anti SW sentiment, but soon discovered people were very receptive when he got out his army list and it wasnt the normal dual psyker/MSU GH in las/plas with spam ML lon fangs..

its not that people hate the faction, its people hate the monotonous army lists.. if more people tried to be unique with thier lists im sure you wouldnt encounter this as much

 

just my 0.02 (dons flame proof jacket)

[Morollan]

its not that people hate the faction, its people hate the monotonous army lists.. if more people tried to be unique with thier lists im sure you wouldnt encounter this as much

 

You're right but the spam lists are generally only possible when there is a clear and obvious choice as to what is the 'best' unit to take. If there is one unit that stands out, whether it be Paladins or Grey Hunters or Purifiers or Long Fangs or whatever, there will always be people who take the obvious step of taking as many of that unit as possible. Is it boring? Yes. Is it effective? Yes. Will people who want to win games do it? Hell yeah!

[greatcrusade08]

You're right but the spam lists are generally only possible when there is a clear and obvious choice as to what is the 'best' unit to take. If there is one unit that stands out, whether it be Paladins or Grey Hunters or Purifiers or Long Fangs or whatever, there will always be people who take the obvious step of taking as many of that unit as possible. Is it boring? Yes. Is it effective? Yes. Will people who want to win games do it? Hell yeah!

 

your right too, but youve highlighted why people take a dislike to it.. the people who have this mentality are considered to be WAAC gamers (justified or not).. i want to win all my games, yet i never take the meta lists.. variety is only a good thing.

you can take purifiers without using crowe, you can play paladins without draigo.. the key is finding a competative list that doesnt fall into a commonly used meta lists (which is only good tactically as at the top level meta gaming is considered when devising list tactics.. for another discussion though).

[Captain Semper]

but no matter what, play the army because it sings to that little part in your heart that feels, were they real, you would be found worthy to join their ranks. Play them because you can see the fluff as real and could stand for what they stand for. this goes for ANY army, in any system. Dont lose faith in your choice due to other people not agreeing or yelling cheese or beardy, stand by your decision, and play to the best of your ability. Play them because you enjoy the army, and ignore the poor bastards who are missing out on the true pleasures of the game when they buy and build an army simply to win games/tournaments, and not because they enjoy the army and the game itself.

 

QFT. This summarises my position perfectly. Stick to your preferred faction and remind people it's your army - not theirs. They can play/collect what they like and so can you. I think you'll find that after their initial reaction they'll focus more on the game and less on brainless comments.

 

 

(dons flame proof jacket)

 

*gets out Flamer*

 

Now let's test this wonder jacket of yours! :D

[greatcrusade08]

QFT. This summarises my position perfectly. Stick to your preferred faction and remind people it's your army - not theirs. They can play/collect what they like and so can you. I think you'll find that after their initial reaction they'll focus more on the game and less on brainless comments.

 

whilst true i doesnt really solve anything.. most of the "whining" has merit.. are the GK overpowered.. pretty much yes.

but at the same time you can patch together an army at random and still be relatively competative.. i see no reason for the GK meta lists to make an appearnace anywhere but tournaments (practicing for said tournaments aside of course)

 

you can of course use whatever army you like, im not arguing that.. im merely pointing out that you have two real choices.. ignore the "whine" or change up your lists.

and given the latter could be very good for your game i see no problems with advising that course of action.

most clubs allow proxying to a degree, so its not always a case of buying brand new minis all the time

 

 

(dons flame proof jacket)

 

*gets out Flamer*

 

Now let's test this wonder jacket of yours! :D

 

all veteran ultramarine players are flame retardant, we have to be :P

 

reason for edit: typos

[Crimson Hawk]

whilst i feel for you i have to point out, than in pointing out that you feel bothered by anti-GK sentiment, you slipped in a dig at the ultraamrines (via matt ward).

as an ultramarine player i find that a little cheap considering the point of your post.

 

that being said, im not trying to pick a fight, merely that every faction has its "anti" sentiments.. its everwhere,

No, my bad, and I'm sorry if I caused any offence- I was simply giving an example of what I was expecting in the new 'dex. I genuinely feel sorry for all Utramarines players, as a fellow recipient of 'Wardification'.

[greatcrusade08]

No, my bad, and I'm sorry if I caused any offence- I was simply giving an example of what I was expecting in the new 'dex. I genuinely feel sorry for all Utramarines players, as a fellow recipient of 'Wardification'.

 

yeah i think Ward fluff has alot to answer for, his rules are pretty good, barring the huge power leap of GKs.. although i feel the GK power leap was a response to whatshisnames amazing SW dex.

the trouble with pointing fingers though, is you get a load more pointing back.. at some point youve just got to sigh and get on with it

 

i tried fighting the hate and all it got me was warnings and bad moods, its tough but i think in the case of GK there is a viable way out.. in that the hate is all directed at the power level and meta lists..

ultimately the fact your bothered by this means your not "one of those" players, those kinda players dont care they are meta gamers and WAAC players, but they bring most of the "whine/complaints" that bother you and chaps like you.

its sad, but life is rarely fair.

 

like i said show you can mix it up in friendly games and most good gamers will give you a break

[Morollan]

yeah i think Ward fluff has alot to answer for, his rules are pretty good, barring the huge power leap of GKs.. although i feel the GK power leap was a response to whatshisnames amazing SW dex.

 

It's worth remembering that the top three current codexes were all written by different authors. Ward for GK, Kelly for SW and Cruddace for IG. It's also worth noting that their current position is not a result of codex creep. The IG Codex is older than either of the others but still holds its own and there are several codexes released after IG and SW that do not match up quite as well.

[greatcrusade08]

i think in terms of creep you can only really compare like for like.. marine dexes are easy to compare in terms of "power"

C:SM --> C:BA --> C:SW --> C:GK

and all released in that order too IIRC

[dswanick]

i think in terms of creep you can only really compare like for like.. marine dexes are easy to compare in terms of "power"

C:SM --> C:BA --> C:SW --> C:GK

and all released in that order too IIRC

Incorrect. C:BA followed C:SW.

[greatcrusade08]

ah well i stand corrected on the matter.

 

the trend is still the same though, C:SM players are usually 'outclassed' by newer marine dexes. Most successful C:SM players i know, have to use elements unique to that dex

[Morticon]

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/haters.jpg

 

Dude, dont sweat it.

Happens every new codex. BA were victim to it too a while back, and now theres a 6 page thread debating whether or not they're competitive.

 

I really struggle fighting with aspects of the GK , but would never hold that against the player.

Try not to let the noise get to you.

 

Keep the faith!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

There are a finite number of opinions that count in a persons life.

 

Do your friends* and/or family make comments about Grey Knights? If the answer is no, then those who do are not to be counted within those finite number of opinions.

 

Charmingly enough, neither is mine but jus' sayin' :lol:

 

 

 

*Either typical friends, or "gaming buddies".

[Vesper]

Happens every new codex. BA were victim to it too a while back, and now theres a 6 page thread debating whether or not they're competitive.

 

You see, I really think GK are something else than "usual newdex rage". You can adopt this pretext just to not really think about the real reasons, but trust me, the "hate" will last far longer than until the next release. Just like SW and IG. Just because those armies broke the game.

[thade]

A spot-on image followed by a spot-on synposis.

I love that image. Not much else can be added to that. <3

[Jacinda]

Wow.

 

I did not know so many people felt so strongly; I always thought it was just playful teasing.

 

For what it's worth, I love paladin lists. Please take more. Don't worry about dreads or baby-carrier ka-nig-its. Take more paladins :) If only I could take Exorcists in squadrons of 3 .... mwahahaha!

[Crimson Hawk]

There are a finite number of opinions that count in a persons life.

 

Do your friends* and/or family make comments about Grey Knights? If the answer is no, then those who do are not to be counted within those finite number of opinions.

 

Charmingly enough, neither is mine but jus' sayin' :)

 

 

 

*Either typical friends, or "gaming buddies".

As I said, I'm a bit unusual in that I worry about little things more than is healthy for me- things that shouldnt matter do, a lot, like this. ;)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

There are a finite number of opinions that count in a persons life.

 

Do your friends* and/or family make comments about Grey Knights? If the answer is no, then those who do are not to be counted within those finite number of opinions.

 

Charmingly enough, neither is mine but jus' sayin' :lol:

 

 

 

*Either typical friends, or "gaming buddies".

As I said, I'm a bit unusual in that I worry about little things more than is healthy for me- things that shouldnt matter do, a lot, like this. :)

 

Oh everyone cares, everyone has that little voice at the back of their mind that goes "But why don't they like it/me/us/cake?!".

 

The key is to focus on the things that matter: the opinions of people you care about, your own opinion and whether you enjoy it or not. Cover those bases and you're set.

 

Sadly though, amigo, you gotta' take that first step and say "This is my army, there are many like it but this one is mine.. Now shut your yap before I bake you in to a pie..." or something.

[Dosjetka]

Sadly though, amigo, you gotta' take that first step and say "This is my army, there are many like it but this one is mine.. Now shut your yap before I bake you in to a pie..." or something.

Sig'ed for both being funny and undeniably true.

 

Ludovic

[Gentlemanloser]

This attitude form others can be found everywhere in life. "ZOMG you can't play a Lasombra Antitribe. That's the height of cheese! You must play a one armed Toreador Painter of dubious gender and sexuality!!!Oneonetwelve).

 

Ignore them all. Play what you want, and what brings you fun. It's all about self confidence really, and not letting the :P of others influence you. It can be quite hard to tolerate.

 

That being said, 40k is a communial game, and you need to have a bit of flexibilty to make sure games are fun for everyone.

 

But blanket tar and feathering an entire codex isn't in any way constructive nor healthy.

 

Tell 'em to shut it, then whoop them with a GKT army led by two Brotherhood Champions. >;)

 

Edit: Well, there are utterly game brekaing stuff in the GK dex, but that's GW's fault. Bad writing, worse editing and non existant playtesting. But GW *need* to shoulder the blame for this, not the players.

[Morticon]

You see, I really think GK are something else than "usual newdex rage". You can adopt this pretext just to not really think about the real reasons, but trust me, the "hate" will last far longer than until the next release. Just like SW and IG. Just because those armies broke the game.

 

 

Time will tell.

As will results.

 

I dont believe either SW or IG broke the game, personally.

 

In third ed the UK GT for 3 or 4 tournies on the trot had 40% of the top 10 as Chaos.

That says something. That says something very loudly.

 

If the same stats are there in the next few major tournaments (ie: a disproportionate amount of GK in top 10) then maybe it will last.

 

I reckon Chaos is going to be fearsome.

[Gentlemanloser]

Lastest rumour is they scrapped legions, so I'm not too worried.

 

But I want a metal flying dragon!!!!

 

Dagnabbit!

[Brother Ambroz]

I reckon Chaos is going to be fearsome.

 

It'd better be.

 

Yes GK are very powerful at the moment but once another top tier codex comes along you'll start to see who the real GK players are. A few codex books later, ala Blood Angels, and nobody should really be complaining about you anymore. Just give it some time and ignore the hate.

 

This is also coming from someone who has never played as GK.

 

Edit: Gentlemanloser - No!!! No flying dragons in 40k haha. :lol: