Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The dex says they appeared in imperial records first in the 40th, meaning pretty late.. A Brother had a thread here, which i cant find right now, where it was stated that they are rumored 25th or 26th founding and also some more details on squad markings, with red helmet stripes for troopers, white for Sgts, yellow/gold for captains...but i guess that is kinda DIY there. I guess ill make my own version for Consecrators :o ...i think of them like Dark Angels Black Ops/Gestapo, secretly created from DA Veterans with the 2nd founding or even before that! Im also thinking of doing a greater force for them than i initially planned, 2 tacs 1assault 1 dread 1 contemptor...i have enough bits to do a full squad, but cant wait for some FW Mk2-6 :) Respectfully, Nemiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Barachiel Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I had a very similar idea. Because they look like original DA I think the Consecrators to be founded during the 2nd Founding but very secretly. Their mission is giving aid where it is needed. They appear only when other Unforgiven chapters truly need them. But when they appear, they are a terrible nemesis for every enemy of the Unforgiven. I worked out some kinda "fluffy" Apocalypse Datasheet for them using the same rules as the Legion of the Damned. I think, that this might be their righteous role on the battlefield. The legendary saviors ready when their Legion needs them :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 To me they are more like the custodians of ancient technology rather than a Black Ops kind of organization. There is nothing in the fluff that hints towards them being particularly more Black Ops than any other Unforgiven... Then again I tend to view the Unforgiven as a Black Ops organization as whole... :P Let's hope the new Codex, whenever is comes along, will add to the Consecrators fluff... Even a few sentences will be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hmmmm using them as Legion of the Damned...good idea! ;) Well semp, you are basically right about the whole unforgiven, but the problem to me is we are the first ever created SM legions...could be hard to eridicate that from imperial history! 2nd foundings and any later foundings of successors is a "official" act, that means records! You simply cant hide from that! The only thing the fluff says, is that they work closely with DAs and that they appear late in imperial records. To me that can mean as well that they were either very effective in their secretness or the reason for their existance is more sinister :huh: The fact that they use the legions most ancient and valued equipment speaks against a simple successor founding...esp when they share the legions ancient secrets, would you give all this stuff to some new recruits? The more i think of it the more logical it gets...while the 2nd founding represents our Primarchs "official" obediance to the Codex Astartes right after the Heresy, the Consecrators could be his secret ace up the sleeve? Or just to mask the fact that there are more "true" dark angels than allowed by the Codex Astartes! I havent read all Lion related Horus Heresy stories yet, but what i got so far that Lion El`Johnson was severly pissed by the traitors, even before he discovered what happened on Caliban...cant imagine he simply obeyed to the Codex Astartes without his own agenda! :P Jeez, how i love this speculations with Dark Angels brothers, the only RL friend i can discuss such matters with is a Death Guard player...sadly hes not much of a reader, he pointed out a story in a very old WD about the siege of Terra with the words: "There was so much text so i didnt read it"....gladly the HH books changed his mind there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've been told there is more info on the Consecrator's in the Deathwatch RPG book - perhaps that is where the founding numbers come from? Also, here is an interesting thread that is somewhat related to your own. I'm with Semper, though Special Ops could certainly be written in there, it's like they were created (as their name bluntly suggests) to (re)consecrate the old relics of the Legion. And what better way for a Space Marine to consecrate a weapon or armor but in battle. It's as if the relics had been sealed away within the Rock and Azrael finally through the doors open and create this new Chapter to bare the Legions most sacred arms and baptize them in blood. Perhaps they are only the beginning of a larger expansion. As or the helmet stripes you mentioned, I believe are based on some older fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Edit: More info by EPK! Maybe the source of my intuition is the Deathwatch RPG? I remember reading about it, but not what it was. Any ways: The only thing the fluff says, is that they work closely with DAs and that they appear late in imperial records. To me that can mean as well that they were either very effective in their secretness or the reason for their existance is more sinister :P And what is more sinister than the hunt for the fallen? Dealing with the evidence left by the fallen! Much like Semper, I think the Consecrators have more to do with ancient tech. I took from somewhere that they were linked to the reclamation of Dark Angel (legion) relics that had been in the hands of the fallen. So as the Unforgiven recapture the fallen, their gear, being old DA gear from the legion, is not destroyed but cleansed and kept by the Consecrators. This goes with their color scheme being very close to the legion (so the machine spirit of the relics is favorable to them) and with the name too: to consecrate: Make or declare sacred; dedicate formally to a religious or divine purpose. They make the gear holy again. The fact that they use the legions most ancient and valued equipment speaks against a simple successor founding...esp when they share the legions ancient secrets, would you give all this stuff to some new recruits? They don't have to be new recruits. In fact, if they were new, chances are that the information about their origin would not be lost yet. In general, in the Imperium, the older the information, the less likely people are to know it (like STC or how the will of the Emperor for a rational empire is mostly forgotten) or it becomes so mythical that it is all but useless. So it is more likely that they are old, a chapter founded at some point lost in early history. As more time passes, they acquire enough relics that they can dare use some of them in larger scale actions so their presence becomes noticeable ("Who's that with conversion beamer predators and.. they have a spearhead of 5 contemptors?!"). The tale of the Consecrators spreads enough so we are now aware of them whereas before they were mostly hidden collectors and guardians of artefacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Good points Arthanor! I like the idea that they consecrate the items that belonged to Fallen (though I'm not sure how few and far between finding them is). It could also be that they took Vets from all the Unforgiven chapters to form their initial ranks. On lexicanum, it used to say they only had about 300 marines (perhaps based on them being a younger formation - but not necessarily new recruits as noted). I don't believe the reference is there anymore, but I like the idea that they are small and still building. Perhaps they don't even take new recruits via scouts but slowly build up from Vets of the other chapters that are or will be aware of the dark secret. Could this be another route instead of being initiated into the Deathwig? Perhaps promising Company Vets could take in this holy role of consecration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I love to mull over fluff and I have to say, there is a lot to consider when dealing with you guys! One thing the Rock definitly has more of than the Eternal Crusader is nuances, subtlety and shades of grey, so I'm trying to familiarise myself with the DA too. All that to introduce a stupidly basic question: What does it represent to be part of the Deathwing? Knowledge about the fallen? It would be possible to conceive of the Consecrators as being a chapter maintained since its founding by drawing from the other Unforgiven company veterans who join, knowing only that they are to reclaim artefacts of their chapter tainted by the touch of Chaos. It would require a strong mind and an uncommon mix of mysticism and afinity for technology to cleanse relics, so drafting from all the Unforgiven veteran may make sense. And you certainly don't want raw recruits dealing with that! By the time a marine becomes a company veteran, they would be fairly far into the secrets of the Unforgiven any ways, so safer to expose to such a task and their character/affinity would be already known. Then, upon progression as a Consecrator, they could join the Deathwing of that chapter and learn how the relics fell into the hands of Chaos. It would certainly make for a very interesting chapter and them all being veterans would fit with fielding a bunch of relics (from the DA company veterans or from C:SM veterans, who both have access to more fancy stuff!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 All that to introduce a stupidly basic question: What does it represent to be part of the Deathwing? Knowledge about the fallen? Not sure if that's rhetorical or not, but that's the gist of it. Even company veterans (who are outside the 1st and 2nd companies) would technically not have knowledge of such - as they are not on par with C:SM Sternguard/Vanguard of the 1st Companies but are rather more or less a collection of Veteran Sergeants representing a battle company. Apparently even the Ravenwing do not know exactly who they hunt. I think the idea that they are cleansing tainted gear while not having knowledge of why it's tainted (until they prove worthy) works well and makes sense - certainly goes along with DA theme (especially with the RW, working towards finding Fallen, yet not knowing they are what they are). On a side note, because of this implied role, I've always thought they would have more tech-savvy marines. Perhaps tactical or Dev squads would sport some tech marine-in-training member and they would certainly have need of more Tech Marines (not sure it could be shown in game though, being it would really only apply to one successor). I've said it before, if any Master of the Forge-type character was created for the DA, he should be a Consecrator - Master of Relics or Sanctity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Barachiel Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Very nice ideas. I really like that idea about consecrating objects that were taken away from the Fallen. There might be another reason why they appear so late in Imperial Records. Their founding details might have been destroyed on demand of the Grand Master who created them. And they don't appear in any reports of the Imperial Guard because they do not help the Imperial Guard as much as others and simply follow their eternal hunt for the Fallen. Nevertheless, it might be different ;D I just liked to give them such a specific role because I think the Unforgiven to be a greater organism. In my "idea" of the Unforgiven, the Guardians of the Covenant are the keeper of ancient scripts and books which they collect and copy in their gigantic Fortress-Cathedral. The Disciples of Caliban are devoted to hunt Cypher until they catch him. The Dark Angels have the huge Prison-Fortress were all Fallen are kept until they confess (and the Grand Master of the Dark Angels therefore keeps an eye on all of the Unforgiven). The Consecrators are the Ones who only intervene when all hope seems lost. The Angels of Redemption/Absolution/Vengeance(/Vigilance) are rather normal Unforgiven chapters who are going on crusade for the Fallen by themselves. Yet all of them do inform the whole legion when they get any information about the Fallen (this information would be archived by the Guardians of the Covenant and analysed by them and the Dark Angels). So they are Ears and Eyes of the whole legion without anything more specific (although some might have minor functions). That I was thinking so was also caused by the "translation" of Unforgiven into the German Codex. They called it "Legion der Sühne"/Legion of Redemption making me think it to be quite more than just some chapters but more like a community/legion. This community-thought seems to be true, though. So I haven't been totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The idea of the collection of Unforgiven chapters being a community with each their specific roles is appealing and well supported within the current cannon. With the roles you have identified, you have the Dark Angels keeping the fallen themselves, the Guardians of the Covenant keeping the records, so the Consecrators keeping the hardware fit well. In fact, the Angels of Vengeance works with your idea of intervening when all is lost since they have already risked extinction by deploying in dire situations and refusing to leave, according to Lexicanum. It also seems to me like relics would not be comitted to dire situations as their loss would be greater than the loss of regular wargear that can be replaced, so it might not be a good focus for the Consecrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yes, I agree with that as well. As if they all have their specializations to form the larger Legion that they once were (and perhaps still are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Now I wish Consecrators weren't black.. They are a very interesting chapter but I got enough black already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Now I wish Consecrators weren't black.. They are a very interesting chapter but I got enough black already! Haha. Not sure if any of this is considered canon, but I actually was able to track down some info on them that's found in the Deathwatch Rites of Battle. It does not list a founding, simply says "later". It does mention that the 3rd Company with support from the 1st and 10th deployed in the Jericho Reach. It does not mention if the 1st Co. was in TDA. Might blow a hole in our theory that they are made up of Vets from other Unforgiven chapters, but if they are acting as a support unit to the 3rd, the 10th Co. mentioned is probably scouts after all. Of course, they could always be Scout armor wearing Vets! Hehe. It even mentions a Consecrator Strike Cruiser, Heritor of Ages. Note "heritor", an appropriate name for a Consecrator vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Awesome brainstorming Brothers! I admit i was too lazy to translate Consecrators :) ...but you convinced me there that they are the guys who are getting our awesome Hardware back! As the whole unforgiven are a community, they may even have superior knowledge about usage of geneseed? Maybe they can produce new recruits better than any other space marines? If the consecrators are secretely founded, do they have to send in geneseed samples for control purposes? If so that kinda VERY close to heresy and i admit im abit influenced by Deliverance Lost, where the Raven Guard uses the Emperors primarch projekt facilities to rebuild their Legion...but on the other hand with the Caliban/Fallen Angels "situation" i cant imagine the Inner circle would risk messing around with our geneseed... Edit: Haha Arthanor, i esp like them because they are black, closer to preheresy scheme, and easier to paint! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthanor Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Haha Arthanor, i esp like them because they are black, closer to preheresy scheme, and easier to paint! :lol: When you have Black Templars, that color scheme isn't really an advantage :) I think I'll be looking at at DIY sucessor if I ever paint some DA (starter set models! thinking quartered silver and green). As the whole unforgiven are a community, they may even have superior knowledge about usage of geneseed? Maybe they can produce new recruits better than any other space marines? If the consecrators are secretely founded, do they have to send in geneseed samples for control purposes? If so that kinda VERY close to heresy and i admit im abit influenced by Deliverance Lost, where the Raven Guard uses the Emperors primarch projekt facilities to rebuild their Legion...but on the other hand with the Caliban/Fallen Angels "situation" i cant imagine the Inner circle would risk messing around with our geneseed... What the Raven Guard did turned out very badly, creating monstrosities instead of marines and I cannot see the puritanical Dark Angels engaging into something that will taint their geneseed without even the desperation of being at low numbers. Making the founding of the Consecrators a secret along with a lack of tithe to the Mechanicus, all of that to hide geneseed experiment may seem interesting but I would keep it for a different chapter, maybe a BA successor who have a reason to try to fix their geneseed. Most of the pre-heresy recruitment hardware of the DA would have been kept on Caliban and whatever is left of it would be on the Rock, much like the BA hardware is still are on Baal, the UM on Macragge, etc so I don't know how special the DA can be in that respect. Obviously, something is going on for the DA to keep the geneseed pure, but it is probably very stringent screening and no traumatic primarch influence, something that makes the Dark Angels special by being normal! Back to Consecrators, what I was suggesting earlier was that their founding might be forgotten, not hidden. Along the line of the chapter having been there for as long as can be remembered and not really remarquable until now, so nobody knows much or when they was created. I don't think it is possible to hide the founding of a chapter unless you also hide the chapter itself. At that point, you might as well just bypass the numbers limit on the parent chapter, instead of setting up a whole hierarchy and heraldry which will just help in making the hidden chapter stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 personally, my favourite theory is that they take lost weapons, that are re-captured from Fallen, and 're-consecrate' them so that they can be used in battle Also, I would treat them as just a super secretive Chapter, not some uber-veteran force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Nemiel Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeah i agree...i dont want them to be uber, and my ideas about the geneseed was just because atm i suffer from inspiration overflow...you DONT mess with the geneseed, would be like opening the box of pandora! Guess after my vow ill start on them...at least 1 squad + FW Mk4 dreadnought, time to save some money for some old PAs, a contemptor+ 1 maybe 2 Predator Executioners...hmm or maybe even a oldschool egg LR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Barachiel Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 What do you think of this? These are my thoughts about how the Unforgiven Legion might be working. https://imageshack.com/i/idgI4oGKj Edit: The names in brackets are possible High Gothic translations of the chapter names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 How about this idea: Unbeknownst to most of the Unforgiven (even still), Luthor was not completley successful in poisoning the minds of the Dark Angels on Caliban. A portion of them did not fall under the sway of his words, seeing them for what they truly were. This group of loyal brethren were hunted by Luthor's traitors and driven into the darkest reaches of Caliban. Towards the end, the only remaining loyalists were holed up deep in the vaults of one of th emany fortresses of The Order. Despite many attempts to do so, Luthor could not dig them out, but he could afford to wait them out...or so he thought. Then the Lion and the Dark Angels fleet arrived. Luthor fired upon them, and a titanic battle ensued. The planet of Caliban eventually broke apart under the ferocious bombarment of the Dark Angels fleet. The Tower of Angels (and a masive chunk of the planet's bedrock) survied the destruction, it being being protected by many layers of void shielding. The rest of the planet's remains hurtled into the massive warp storm which broke over the area of space. Likewise proteced from annihilation by void shields, the underworks of a certain fortress of The Order, and its occupants, survived the destruction of Caliban. The Techmarines who maintained the equipment caches in the vaults of this paticular fortress had also previously manufactured Geller fields to keep out the growing influence of Chaos on Caliban, and these alone enabled them survive as they meandered through the warp. Many thousands of years later... Though the warp seemingly sought to keep this island of loyalists from reentering real space, unwittingly catching the attention of traitorous Chaos scum was to be the key to them doing so. Detecting energy emanations from the seeming asteroid, a traitor cruiser assaulted it, not realizing that hundreds of loyalist Dark Angels marines lay within. The traitors were taken by surprise, the Dark Angels unleashing all manner of ancient tech that had not been seen for millenia upon them. The traitor ship was easkily captured, but not before it unleashed a powerful broadside into the asteroid itself. Using the captured ship, the Dark Angels were able to reenter real space with the remains of their crumbling asteroid base in tow. The tranlation to real space caused the asteroid to further break apart, and it was eventually abandoned, but not before it was stripped of anything useful. After decades of harrowing adventures, and finding out that much had chandged in the Imperium in their absence, these remaining Dark Angels were finally able to make contact with the Chapter. After much time, and careful discernment, the Chapter accepted that not only were these long lost Dark Angels not of the Fallen, but that they were true brethren who had endured unimaginbale hardship. Not only that, but they had maintained an arsenal of weapons and other wargear which had not been used by the Unforgiven (or anyone esle) for millenia, including a full squadron of jetbikes. These jetbikes and other wargear were parcelled out to the various Chapters of the Unforgiven. We know some of it today as Sableclaw and the weapons of absolution now carried by Deathwing Knights and the Champion of the Deathwing. More importantly, these long lost Dark Angels numbered among them many Techmarines knowledgable in the care and maintenance of this wargar. Some were reassigned to each of the various Unforgiven Chapters, though the majority were to remain with their brethren. But, what to do with these newfound Dark Angels? Being too numerous to simply absorb these long lost brethren into the Unforgiven without notice, a charter was secured for the formation of a new Chapter of marines based on the Dark Angels geneseed. Under the cover of this action, these long lost brethren were brought back into the fold of the Unforgiven as... ....THE CONSECRATORS. The Consecrators' Chapter symbol has many deeper meanings. The Dark Angels' Chapter symbol bears the angel's wings and sword, standing for their purity of purpose and denoting them as being the swords of the Emperor. The Consecrator's Chapter symbol incoporates the angel's wings as well, but also the flame of purity for keeping faith with their brothers for all the time they were lost. Surmounting both of these symbols is the iron halo, an honorific that every single member of the Chapter bears in honor of those whom it was first given to en masse- those long lost brethren who became the first Consecrators. "Though his descriptions are vague, Quilp is very specific on one element of the Consecrators' appearance - he noted that the brethren bore all manner of holy relics, and used the most ancient patterns of armour, weaponry and vehicles. It was as if, the field notary commented, the Consecrators had inherited the most revered arms of the Dark Angels Legion, preserving them lovingly, and bearing them down the ages against the foes of the Lion." And so they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Nice :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I definitely sign up for this! Making me hurry to start my consecrators detachment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Barachiel Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Great contribution to the fluff! And except for slightly changing the Consecrator's description it fits to my concept of the Unforgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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