Grey Knights...

[TrashMan]

Everything feeds the gods, more or less.

 

I disagree. Their portafolios/spheres of influence seem limited indeed. Not everything feeds them. They feed of very specific, very extreeme emotions. And only on SOME emotions.

[Vesper]

They don't need extreme emotion. They are made up mostly from human nature. Being human feeds the gods. Rock hard fluff. Some emotions are directed only to one god :

Anger, martial pride, bloodlust, hate -> Khorne

Hope, desire for change -> Tzeentch

Despair, hopelessness -> Nurgle

Pleasure in any form, pride -> Slaanesh

 

But, yes, all emotions participate of the immaterium. Let's repeat this a third time : even plants contribute (a bit) to Chaos as a whole.

 

So what if he knows it? He can't stop it. He might (frankly, methinks the whole description is way overblown) know I might use a ward (maybe), but he doesn't know what I will think or do after the ward is in palce, because not even I know yet what will I think off.

That. Perfectly true. But he knows you from your birth. He doesn't know what you will do, but he knows what you could do. Huge mind is huge.

[RedemptionNL]

The Warp is a place of emotion, yes, and thus all life feeds the Warp. But Chaos is not the entire Warp, there's plenty of other stuff in there. The Old Ones and the Eldar's ancestors have been using the Warp long before the Chaos Gods even existed.

[Vesper]

Yes. In fact, the warp was a place of harmony. Then, the living flooded it with their emotions, turning it into Chaos. Realm of Chaos, Warp, immaterium... It's all the same. The warp is pure Chaos. Now, the eldars dread the warp and use the webway. Yes, there are some other things than daemons living in the warp (Enslavers), but it is most likely the fauna of the original warp, before the Chaos gods kicked in and start ruling it.

[TrashMan]

Chaos gods aren't the only things there, not all emotions go to them, and chaos gods are :tu: and will be smiten sooner or later.

 

All 4 chaos gods are dicks of the utmost caliber. Where does all the good emotion go? It's got to end up somewhere too.

[Vesper]

Good emotions ? We're talking about humanity, buddy, humanity under the crappy rule of the imperium.

The "good" is most likely lost in a sea of "bad". The imperium made up Chaos, in a way. Giving them most power they could have dreamed of, and they are the ruling entities of the warp, by far. They can't be beaten up, like the emperor was, because they are gods, and he was but a human.

Still want to win even if there's no hope and the imperium's fall is written eh ? Funny to read.

[Gentlemanloser]

The Eldar fell and created slaneesh before the Imperium was established, didn't they?

[Vesper]

True that. But the gods were far weaker when humanity was mostly on Terra. The conquest of the stars by mankind, establishing it like the dominant specie, just made the gods powerful like no other.

And it's not "creation" per se, for exemple, the god of pleasure didn't come ex nihilo. He existed first in a dormant state, then he came to consciousness. True for all of them.

 

But you are right, it was before the imperium. In fact, the birth of Slaanesh and the end of the warp storms around Terra are the starting point of the imperium.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Technically the Numen fluff is essentially the "good emotions" associated with the Emperor, who by fluff is also associated with a collection of human shaman who sacrificed themselves to save humanity way back when, and after/during his wounding of Horus his good emotions are collected in the warp forming a powerful entity. Once the plug is pulled on the golden throne and all his personality is back together Chaos is in trouble... so in essence the Imperium is shooting itself in the foot by not just letting him die. In the end, humanity wins by stopping trying to control fate and letting things take care of themselves. It's kind of a deep thought... and old fluff that hasn't been addressed in a while :D

[Vesper]

Early days of RT, isn't it ? My 40k bible are the Realm of Chaos books, so...

[Inquisitor Fox]

The Numen / Star Child fluff has been around for a while. I'm not sure exactly when, it's just not really talked about much but nothing directly contradicts it so it's kind of odd. Most of it is explained in wiki entries for the curious, it's also in the Inquisition War series of novels and a few other spots IMO (like Xenology although hidden). So until it's specifically contradicted, I consider it still viable fluff :o

[Vesper]

Absolutly doing the same with the RoC books :o.

[Aleax]

Hi.

 

Well, GKs? Their first appearance I believe was in Genestealer (Space Hulk second extension), and they were a lonely squad of psychic terminators. They have now a whole codex (since 3rd edition), and this is IMO quite a lot thus from a stand alone squad ala 3rd edition before the codex. Sometimes I wonder.

 

Cheers.

[Gentlemanloser]

The GKs were around since RT. ;)

 

There's a nice history thread around this forum somewhere, if you're interested in learning more.

[Aleax]

The GKs were around since RT. ;)

 

There's a nice history thread around this forum somewhere, if you're interested in learning more.

I do have RT but not that much interested, big draft of a game I believe, but good enough though IMO because the following games came from it. Where are GKs first depicted *after* RT?

[Gentlemanloser]

Every edition of the game?

 

I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

Edit;

 

Courtesy of Val;

 

SJ,

 

I am going to have to disagree with your memory then. Please allow me to produce some sources:

 

As we all know, the game of Warhammer 40,000 was first released in 1987 in the form of the Rogue Trader rulebook. A lot of universe development and adjustments occurred in that first year, and the Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness supplement was released in 1988, which included a ton of new fluff, rules, and several army lists, including lists for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Black Legion, and the Grey Knights. In Slaves to Darkness there are a couple points that differ from what you said above.

 

 

First, it is noted that the Grey Knights' "are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever."

 

 

 

Second, the Psycannon was also introduced in Slaves to Darkness, and was described as "a long elegant handgun, a development of the trusty and brutal bolt pistol. It fires a tiny bolt which is heavily impregnated with negative psychic energy, as used in the manufacture of psych-out shells. A Psycannon bolt does some damage by bolt impact, and causes one Wound. However, its devastating effect on the psyche (as well as the physical body) is only apparent when it is used against a psychic target..."

 

 

 

Lastly, in the original background material and army list from Slaves to Darkness, there was no description of the colour scheme used by the Grey Knights. All of the artwork in this section was black and white "line art", so there was no way to extract an official position from this supplement. I believe that most folks assumed at the time, as I did, that they should be painted some version of Grey, given their name, the Grey Knights.

 

 

Original Psycannon: from Slaves to Darkness, 1988.

 

Rogue Trader era Inquisitor with Psycannon model:

 

The concept of Tactical Dreadnought Armour, or Terminator Armour, didn't arrive to the game until White Dwarf #109 (January, 1989), and the first rules for Grey Knights Terminator Squads was released a few months later in White Dwarf #114 (June, 1989).

 

 

When the Grey Knights Terminator Squads were released, the background material that most Grey Knights had no psychic potential was repeated. However, a new section was added: "Some, however, are extremely potent psykers, judged strong and pure enough to pit their powers against creatures from the warp. Equipped with Nemesis Force Weapons and protected by Tactical Dreadnought Armour, these elite warriors can hope to oppose even the Greater Daemons of Chaos." "The Grey Knight psykers are trained to work in small, extremely mobile strike forces, typically in squads of five men each.

"

 

 

The Nemesis Force Weapon was largely as you described, but incorporated a short range, limited ammunition, bolt weapon (only 3 shots in a game) in the weapon's haft

.

 

 

One page of the article included the entry for Army List Additions, which were selection that were to be added to the Grey Knights section of the Ordo Malleus army list found in Slaves to Darkness. The new entries included a Grey Knights Terminator Captain and up to four Grey Knight Terminator Tactical Squads. Again, these were new units that were meant to be added to the original army list.

 

 

White Dwarf pictures of the first Grey Knights Terminators:

Reduced: 79% of original size [ 804 x 554 ] - Click to view full image

 

As you can see from these original Rogue Trader era pics from White Dwarf magazines, the original color scheme appears to be a base of silver (perhaps grey) with gold trim, and the familiar red, white, and black heraldry.

 

Now, skipping years ahead to the 3rd Edition era of the game, the Index Astartes article for the Grey Knights (and Death Watch) was released in White Dwarf # 259 (August 2001). This article doesn't mention anything about the colour scheme in the text, but did include a this picture, which has the Grey Knights in the heretofore unseen Black scheme:

 

 

 

Despite the significant change from earlier versions of the scheme commonly seen in White Dwarf magazines, and studio painted models,the change to Black was shortlived, as the Grey Knights were back to their base Silver scheme by March, 2003, when the Codex: Daemonhunters was released, which also included the fluff blurb on their unpainted armour. This was repeated in our April 2011 5th Edition Codex: Grey Knights as well.

 

I hope this was helpful and informative for all Grey Knights players, young and old.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian