Monolythic Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm sure this discussion has been had, but not recently as far as I can tell, so I am curious what you guys think? There seems to be two schools of thought.... the first being that Meph is tournament viable and indispensable once you get to 2000 points or higher. Conversely I've heard a hefty amount of Meph bashing saying he's too easy to topple for anyone who knows anything about his weaknesses. I've heard claims that taking 2 regular libbys is far more effective in a tournament setting. So brothers, whats the verdict? Is the lord of death a beer and pretzels piece, or should the flunky librarians go back for a master's degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Searchy is your friend! Here's a thread on the matter: Mephiston Its in the stickied BA resource thread cunningly hid under the sub-heading "Mephiston". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I cant speak for everyone- but heres a batrep of my personal experience without meph: Dual Lib report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 You will surprise us all one day Morticon and run a successful list with DC Tycho... As for Mephiston he broke a nail and ran off the board in my last game... Still, I love to use him as he is rightly feared (just like my Death Company) even though I can't really use him correctly or efficiently (I only play friendlies so it's not the end of the world that I'm rubbish). Personally I think he is viable in certain builds from 1500 points and up and the first name on the team sheet when you go above 2500. What you have to ask yourself is if he is suitable for the list you plan to run. For example, he is arguably better suited to a Mech or hybird list than a DoA list due to the cover afforded, target saturation and the fact that he can keep up with a Mech/Hybrid that much easier. But even then it is down to personal taste. Just make sure he is supported when he is in assault range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 for units like this are there are two rules . first rule is . how many armies in legal editions can counter him at 1k or less . the fewer , the better/OP he in those games . The second rule is . If playing more then 1k pts how many armies kill him fast enough [which more or less means before he hits hth] and how much fire power/assault is needed to do that . the more fire power it takes for most armies played , the better he is . At 2500 or 2250 he is high points fire magnet . no longer as good as he is in 1k or 1500. why? because if he dies in 1500 killing a unit or two then your opponent may no longer have scoring units or his death star is no longer a death star , at 2500 good armies will be able to both kill him fast [without the need for most army to shot/assault mefisto] and if he kills that 1-2 units it is not worth the utility a corbs/libby or libby/libby set up brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 You will surprise us all one day Morticon and run a successful list with DC Tycho... ^_^ Will take a BA player far more skilled than I to pull that one off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 You will surprise us all one day Morticon and run a successful list with DC Tycho... ^_^ Will take a BA player far more skilled than I to pull that one off!! Lol, sounds like a challenge! As for the OP's question, Mephiston every time! He's a must have in ant BA army (except DoA), I've used him in everything from 500pts schools league (practice training for the kids) to Apocalypse. I've never found I needed to justify his points cost as even if he dies first turn the amount of fire power it took the enemy to do it was enough in it's self to turn there game in my favor. Not that that is the way to use him! A well practiced player can make Mephiston work despite his down falls of which he has many potentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 realy ? mefiston in 500pts tournament for kids .not a nice thing to do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 For example, he is arguably better suited to a Mech or hybird list than a DoA list due to the cover afforded, target saturation and the fact that he can keep up with a Mech/Hybrid that much easier. But even then it is down to personal taste. Just make sure he is supported when he is in assault range! I find him plenty useful in DoA. He's fast enough to get where he is needed. Single model is easy to hide out of LoS (or range). Being alone on the table usually isn't a huge issue. Most armies can't afford to ignore him so they'll have to adjust deployment and early movement to take that into account. Take advantage of this and force your opponent to make difficult decisions. If you are playing pure DS/DoA it's easier for your opponent to set up to his advantage. With mephiston you can take out key units in his defense (bubbelwrap, strong countercharge, tanks that are dangrous to deep strikers, etc) and make life a lot easier for your jumpers when they arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I find Mephiston a ridiculous waste of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I find Mephiston a ridiculous waste of points. Im keen to hear more, mate! Can you share some of your experiences that got you to that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 1500 point doubles match, I was paired with a sisters of battle player against an Orc/Demons list. I ran Meph and a Furiouso in a Stormraven with 3 land speeders as escort and 2 squads of RAS. Snikrot and Gazgkrul plus a bunch of bikers went down, sure I lost Meph eventually but I had a Nurgle demon prince and the bird dude from the demons list running away as well. Mephiston changes the game forcing everyone else to alter their strategy. Dont under estimate Mephistons power sure good players can counter him but they have to change gears fast to do that. He is a great asset when used correctly. I used the Sanguinor against a shooty BA 1500 pt mech list today and would be happy to run him again too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I find Mephiston a ridiculous waste of points. Im keen to hear more, mate! Can you share some of your experiences that got you to that point? I'd be interested too. I used to think he was too expensive but. if used correctly, he can be utterly devastating and can easily make his points back. More importantly, he can tie up significant elements of your opponents army for long periods. For example, in a recent game against CSM Mephiston destroyed a Nurgle Daemon Prince (after using his hood to dispel Wind of Chaos that would have nuked a RAS) charged a unit of Nurgle bikers and was happily chewing his way through them and looking hungrily at the Plague Marines behind them. Other elements of my army would have taken ages to get through the bikers but Mephy managed it very quickly and my opponent was forced to divert Abaddon and his terminator escort to attempt to stop Mephiston from tearing through his Plague Marines on his objective. To top it off, Abby managed a 1 for his Daemon Weapon and stood there drooling whilst Meph chopped him into dogmeat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 realy ? mefiston in 500pts tournament for kids .not a nice thing to do . Lol, it wasn't for a tournament. I was asked to take part in training the kids to deal with tournament lits and players. As part of the brief we where asked to be picky with the rules and make hideous lits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolythic Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thanks gents, this is exactly what i was looking for. I tend to agree with DrunkenAngel in that no matter what his limitations, your opponent MUST deal with him, which is usually outside his original intent. Perhaps all the negativity has been from non-BA players who aren't used to seeing him. Also it could be an across the pond thing because I've noticed European players favor units differently than we do. Specifically American's don't like Meph, but most of the international guys I play with swear by him. I've just been really grinding on the thought because I'm playing our boys in red at the ATC in July and couldn't decide if bringing him at 2000 points was the right way to go.... the more i read the more I'm convinced I should go with my gut and give him an HQ slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I've just been really grinding on the thought because I'm playing our boys in red at the ATC in July and couldn't decide if bringing him at 2000 points was the right way to go.... the more i read the more I'm convinced I should go with my gut and give him an HQ slot. Cannot suggest more strongly to do this! Also, give that 8 page thread a read through, some really good points and thoughts. Also the Mephy vs Sanguinor thread (stickied in resources) And if you get vassal - lets have a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I will always take Meph at 1500. 1750+ I take a Librarian and a Reclusiarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I find Mephiston a ridiculous waste of points. Im keen to hear more, mate! Can you share some of your experiences that got you to that point? It's most likely my lack of experience with both the game itself and Mephiston but I've found him to be a supreme magnet for firepower which then requires him to be in cover if he is to survive at all. This, combined with my opponent playing "keep away from the Lord of Death" limits my ability to use him effectively. Also, having him on the table makes me nervous about losing him to a really stupid move on my part. I've found that using two JP Librarians I can have different psychic powers for each, have cover saves out in the open albeit only a 5+ and a constant 12" movement I have more fun and I open more tactical options being able to attach them to units and so forth. A normal librarian, even with Sanguine Sword, is under estimated compared to Mephiston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I find Mephiston a ridiculous waste of points. Im keen to hear more, mate! Can you share some of your experiences that got you to that point? It's most likely my lack of experience with both the game itself and Mephiston but I've found him to be a supreme magnet for firepower which then requires him to be in cover if he is to survive at all. This, combined with my opponent playing "keep away from the Lord of Death" limits my ability to use him effectively. Also, having him on the table makes me nervous about losing him to a really stupid move on my part. I've found that using two JP Librarians I can have different psychic powers for each, have cover saves out in the open albeit only a 5+ and a constant 12" movement I have more fun and I open more tactical options being able to attach them to units and so forth. A normal librarian, even with Sanguine Sword, is under estimated compared to Mephiston. This is a very fair point. While your opponent is devoting so much firepower to Mephiston, what is the rest of your army doing? Are your Razorbacks/Rhino's blasting across the table at 18"? Did your Baal Predators deploy, scout, move 12", and shoot or move 18" and pop smoke? Did your Stormraven(s) move 24"? Or are you running a DOA list, in which case you probably shouldn't be taking Mephy anyways? In the scenario you describe, it's all about target saturation and making your opponent make a hard choice: Take out Mephy, or destroy the two Razorbacks breathing down his neck. Accept the fact that you will lose models. Plan on it. Develop a strategy around making your opponent having to make a hard choice. Develop tactics. Like run two Rhino/Razobacks, and at the end of the move, make a wedge, or armor wall, or whatever, and have Mephy move up next to it such that your opponent can't draw LOS to Mephy. Even if they somehow pop the the Rhinos, Mephy has a potential threat distance of 12" in movement, +d6" in shooting, +6" in movement phase for a possible 19"-24" to assault. Not to mention a squad of guys and cover if the Rhino's get destroyed. The strength of Blood Angels has always been in close combat, and you want to get there as fast as you can, with the most you can, and hit as hard as you can. Of course, you have apparently enjoyed success with two Librarians. ^_^ This is also a moot point, as we are about to see 6th Edition and I'm sure there will be some changes on this front. New strategies and new tactics will have to be developed. I hope you give Mephy a second look then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 ... Even if they somehow pop the the Rhinos, Mephy has a potential threat distance of 12" in movement, +d6" in shooting, +6" in movement phase for a possible 19"-24" to assault. Oh SNAP! I forgot he has fleet! :lol: ^_^ Thanks Tamwulf and thanks for the other tips too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Its easy enough to hide Mephiston behind a Rhino or a Baal and move him up. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Weathered/th_P3130003.jpg I have used him in a Stormraven, he gets his own ride as he hits as harder than a terminator squad is five wounds he doesnt get instagibbed at T6 (except by one or two models/weapons, its not hard to avoid them) and is the same cost. With the ravens flat out thats a 24 inch move (or 12 plus fleet) next turn another 12 plus fleet and a charge there is not much that can avoid meeting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Oh, he's an absolute beatstick, there's no doubt about that. Thing is, I prefer my force-multiplier librarian (Jump Pack, Shield of Sanguinius and Unleash Rage). Clocks in at half the cost, and runs with a big 10 man squad of assault marines, and a priest. Assuming powers work, that's 12 marines with furious charge, feel no pain, and a 5+ cover save. Oh, and its scoring, what's not to like?! If you want something to just plough through units then he's a great choice, but I have a hard time justifying running him when a regular librarian buffs my guys and I get a Baal into the bargain with the points I save (just about). Different things for different people...might unpack him once 6th comes out. Oh, and leave him at home if you're playing against Eldar. That's a fast way to a dead Mephiston... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Oh, and leave him at home if you're playing against Eldar. That's a fast way to a dead Mephiston... Only if you use his powers. Load him up in a razor, and let him go beat stuff. Hes still pretty scary walking with fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 True, but Eldar are (by and large) fast enough to stay out of his way.... I hate playing Eldar because they're the one army in the game that doesn't have the decency to stand in one place long enough for me to punch the stupid pointy-headed space elves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonMajick Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 For the record, I LOVE Mephiston... bit of a bromance... I have only recently come back to the game but have played in two tournaments to date. Out of 6 games I have only lost him once, otherwise he simply destroys things and, yes, draws tremendous attention. I had someone yesterday tell me (jokingly) that I could have my Storm Raven back when they realized that Mephiston was now on the prowl... Does anyone run him with an Honor Guard? Is it worthwhile or just more of a good thing? Or do they just get in his way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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