Potential Allies

[the jeske]

There is nooooo ways army special rules are gonna affect each other. Just aint gonna happen.

but if you put a corbs in to a unit of GK they get FnP . Rules that say army X unit gain Y , dont work ,because they fail to target[so no pref enemy from taking champion] . But rules that say unit X gains Y works perfect [corbs re-roll , priests etc]. I mean your not going to tell me that If I take a storm lord then his night fight only works on him and his unit of necrons.

 

 

But the real fun begins with chaos on chaos demons alliance , because both the armies have rules working on stuff that is identicaly named in the other codex[ tally bonus from epidemus for all models with mark of nurgle=plague marines with ap 1 bolters] , they are going to have to FAQ stuff like that .

[Deschenus Maximus]

And this is one of the (many) reasons why Allies is a terribad idea.

[the jeske]

shriek/vulkan . twin melta or infiltration uber unit ?

[Barduck]

If you read the leaked rules allies will only be when you are playing like 2 against 2 games, bit like apo. You use your own army, player that is on your side is your ally and his/her units can run with yours and vise versa instead of staying by themselfs. So don't start buying boxes of what you'd like to ally with just yet.

[Sinful eyes]

Just for the lols I would take Nemesor Zahndrekh from the Necron codex. Whats that? My RAS now has hit and run (or FC if the squad in question does not have a priest running with them)? My attack bike squad now has tank hunter? Mephiston, who is running through cover and awaiting combat, now has stealth? Yummy :D

[Emperors Immortals]

Deathwing.

Just two HQs and Termie/Assault Squads.

Could be fun...for me.

Besides, weren't DA and BA both in a book together once, history buffs?

Awesome...

 

 

Yup, Angels of Death - 2nd ed. IIRC.

 

Also contains the greatest short story ever written for BA imo - 5 RAS clear a bunker complex full of traitor guard with nothing more then chainswords and barley controlled rage.

[Plague Angel]

If you read the leaked rules allies will only be when you are playing like 2 against 2 games, bit like apo. You use your own army, player that is on your side is your ally and his/her units can run with yours and vise versa instead of staying by themselfs. So don't start buying boxes of what you'd like to ally with just yet.

 

So, basically the same as the ally rules in WHFB 8. Not surprising, I guess.

[Biaz]

Yeah, I'd reckon it'd be more like the fantasy set up. The other option sounds waaaaaayy to crazy, and vulnerable to cheese. But even if it is

 

WE'RE BLOOD ANGELS! KILL THE ALIEN! What is all this about allying with eldar?! And guardsmen? Hah! Men do not walk with angels! We shall leave them in our dust. (Or feed on them, if you're especially thirsty...)

[Morticon]

interestingly, and cheese aside, I wouldnt be averse to a squad of GK strike boys in my list- depending on whether they fit. 2 Psycannons, a hammer and that god-awful Warp Quake ability.

Def a good 250point pick imho.

[Ranwulf]

I hope I can use my Wolves alongside my Angels. That would be fun, since I love them both.

 

Also, it's kinda awesome imagining the Wolves shooting theirs Bolters and the Angels charging the squad that is dead.

 

"Girlies, we will cover you!"

 

"Doggies, we will finish them!"

 

Ran

[Daybreak]

Yup, Angels of Death - 2nd ed. IIRC.

 

I like the sounds of this, for both Deathwing and Ravenwing:

 

Belial + Scoring TH/SS in Storm Ravens, supplemented by Librarians, Chaplains and Priests? Awesome.

 

Sammael + Bikes + Assault Marines = Blood Rodeo, but with scoring bikes (and cheaper? I'll have to double check the codexes)

[Leksington]

interestingly, and cheese aside, I wouldnt be averse to a squad of GK strike boys in my list- depending on whether they fit. 2 Psycannons, a hammer and that god-awful Warp Quake ability.

Def a good 250point pick imho.

The strike squad (with the ability to dep strike) seems to be one of the better ally troop types to be synergetic with a DoA list.

 

What GK HQ to take? How about a cheap inquisitor, upgraded to have psychic communication (get to add or subtract 1 from reserve rolls, and is cumulative with other reserve roll bonuses) with servo skulls (scatter 1 D6 less on deep strike)!!!

 

Talk about synergy! We haven't gotten to elites, heavy or fast attack and I feel like I'm cheating!!!

 

Edit: If this becomes a power gaming net list, just remember, you heard it here first. :angry:

[sp4rky]

I really like the idea of allies in a list... Not for cheesing it up or power gaming, but for fluffy reasons.

 

An Imperial Guard list with a small BA contingent, a Chaos Marine list with some (traitor) Guard thrown in, A desperate alliance of Tau with a couple of Space Marine squads, that kind of thing. Stories could be built around it easily.

 

As has been said above I will probably throw in a small GK squad (Purifiers, Intercepters, etc) as they could compliment the Angels quite well. Alternatively a Guard Veteran squad in Chimera to hold a home objective could work (assuming the allies rules don't affect who can score/contest).

[Terrahawk]

WE'RE BLOOD ANGELS! KILL THE ALIEN! What is all this about allying with eldar?! And guardsmen? Hah! Men do not walk with angels! We shall leave them in our dust. (Or feed on them, if you're especially thirsty...)

 

I fully approve of your attitude. :yes:

[Plague Angel]

What GK HQ to take? How about a cheap inquisitor, upgraded to have psychic communication (get to add or subtract 1 from reserve rolls, and is cumulative with other reserve roll bonuses) with servo skulls (scatter 1 D6 less on deep strike)!!!

 

So... no scatter at all with DoA?

[Leksington]

What GK HQ to take? How about a cheap inquisitor, upgraded to have psychic communication (get to add or subtract 1 from reserve rolls, and is cumulative with other reserve roll bonuses) with servo skulls (scatter 1 D6 less on deep strike)!!!

 

So... no scatter at all with DoA?

Potentially. However GW might have ruled that the Servo Skulls ability and DoA rules can't stack.

[Plague Angel]

Right, need them FAQs.

 

Still, after a quick skim of the GK codex I actually do like the idea of an Inquisitor. It's easy to keep fluffy for most, doesn't require any technical "army" your chapter is friends with. Cheap, and I'm thinking a psyocculum (sp?) would be a nifty thing to have access to.

[Mr.darkness]

Personally, I wouldn't mind allies I'll games. I actually feel that it would open up list building, since there would be SO many good combinations, that you could probably take a lot of the and still be 'competetive'. Compared to what we have now, where a select few lists from each dex are deemed competetive, their sounds pretty good.

[Knurd]

I have never ran bikes in my games but I have read on these boards that they be quite effective in our lists. Currently they have to vie for a spot with our Baals and VV in the FA slot. Now with allies we can run C:SM as allies and run a Captain with some Bike Squads as troops. If you want to spend some points you can get Khan and give them Outflank. Just a thought...

[DominicJ]

I really like the idea of allies in a list... Not for cheesing it up or power gaming, but for fluffy reasons.

 

An Imperial Guard list with a small BA contingent, a Chaos Marine list with some (traitor) Guard thrown in, A desperate alliance of Tau with a couple of Space Marine squads, that kind of thing. Stories could be built around it easily.

 

As has been said above I will probably throw in a small GK squad (Purifiers, Intercepters, etc) as they could compliment the Angels quite well. Alternatively a Guard Veteran squad in Chimera to hold a home objective could work (assuming the allies rules don't affect who can score/contest).

 

But you can do that already, by agreeing to do so with the other guy.

Putting it in the rules makes it "LGS standard" and thats quite different, because it is open to abuse, or even, bending.

 

Why take devastators over IG heavy weapons teams?

 

6 marines with three LC is 181pts

6 guards with three LC is 105pts

 

Stick them in cover, and marines pay 76 more pts for a slightly better save and slightly better ballistic skill.

Thats before we go in mob handed with conscripts to provide cover saves to our marines, or even just hang back and camp on an objective.

 

And thats just a few minutes with my guard codex, and without looking at tanks or artillery.

 

I'm thinking drop pods and demolishers....

[Morticon]

For Jeske:

 

-There are different levels of Allies. One of these levels is "Allies of Convenience". Allies of convenience can't benefit from a warlord's trait. IC's can't join units of allies that are allies of convenience. Allies of convenience are treated as enemies that you can't charge, shoot, or target with psychic powers, templates or blast markers. These things can accidentally hit them via scatter or area of effect, they will be effected by both things that help friendly units or hurt enemy units.

[Daybreak]

Why take devastators over IG heavy weapons teams?

 

It's the opportunity cost of not taking any other allies. If you want your IG heavy weapons teams, then you've got to (i) include an IG HQ and the rest of an infantry platoon (can't buy HW teams on their own) and (ii) give up your ability to include other allies (like GK or SW or whatever)

[Chaplain Admetus]

I think if they're an OPTIONAL rule, (or restricted to multiplayer games) its a fantastic idea. People can make fluffy alliances, such as any flavour of marines with an allied squad of grey knights, or an entrenched, under siege guard gunline receiving a few squads of space marines as support from an orbiting battle-barge, or have chaos space marines calling in their daemonic allies. If it's a STANDARD rule, its quite possibly the worst rule I've ever heard and will potentially ruin the game. Balance goes out the window as players are able to cherry pick from different codices to cover weak spots (i.e. I can take my Tau gunline and chuck in some of my Angels Sanguine as shock troops, or maybe just deploy some guard with Leman Russes). Even if it is just an HQ and Troops, some of the most powerful things in armies are HQ choices which unlock certain things as troops (Draigo, I'm looking at you :) ) The -idea- may be to allow allies for fluff, and fun, but not everyone will play it that way and its way too easily abused. Every army has its strengths and weaknesses, and being able to exploit your opponent's weak areas whilst trying to defend your own is the tactical challenge of the game... if you're allowed to pick from a diametrically opposed codex to cover weak areas in yours, then balance goes out the window. I'm waiting for next week when I get my book, and we'll know for sure then, but I hope its not a standard rule that's in every game.

 

Of course, I could be wrong and it could turn out to be a fantastic idea, and if that's the case I'll quite happily eat my own words, but as of now I can't see how it'll be good for balance if its in standard games.

[Leksington]

For Jeske:

 

-There are different levels of Allies. One of these levels is "Allies of Convenience". Allies of convenience can't benefit from a warlord's trait. IC's can't join units of allies that are allies of convenience. Allies of convenience are treated as enemies that you can't charge, shoot, or target with psychic powers, templates or blast markers. These things can accidentally hit them via scatter or area of effect, they will be effected by both things that help friendly units or hurt enemy units.

I bolded out what I thought was most interesting from that screenshot from the BRB. This suggests (to me) that closer allies will be able to put SPs in their units.

 

And since AoE still effects Armies of Convenience, Necrons (for example) would benefit from a SP bubble since it doesn't target them (even though they can't put SP in their units). However the lightning from Storm Lord's night fighting would effect both then enemy and BA.

Note: I looked to see if a SoB IC could give BA units Acts of Faith via independent characters, and sadly they can't. I'm just not seeing much synergy from the SoB with anyone. :(

 

In this way, Army wide buffs will still work, even if you are only an Army of Convenience. A GK GM might not be able to target BA units with his grand strategy, but Psychic Communication would still buff BA reserve rolls.

[Morticon]

For Jeske:

 

-There are different levels of Allies. One of these levels is "Allies of Convenience". Allies of convenience can't benefit from a warlord's trait. IC's can't join units of allies that are allies of convenience. Allies of convenience are treated as enemies that you can't charge, shoot, or target with psychic powers, templates or blast markers. These things can accidentally hit them via scatter or area of effect, they will be effected by both things that help friendly units or hurt enemy units.

I bolded out what I thought was most interesting from that screenshot from the BRB. This suggests (to me) that closer allies will be able to put SPs in their units.

 

And since AoE still effects Armies of Convenience, Necrons (for example) would benefit from a SP bubble since it doesn't target them (even though they can't put SP in their units). However the lightning from Storm Lord's night fighting would effect both then enemy and BA.

Note: I looked to see if a SoB IC could give BA units Acts of Faith via independent characters, and sadly they can't. I'm just not seeing much synergy from the SoB with anyone. :(

 

In this way, Army wide buffs will still work, even if you are only an Army of Convenience. A GK GM might not be able to target BA units with his grand strategy, but Psychic Communication would still buff BA reserve rolls.

 

 

Leks- I think you're right with the first point, but incorrect about the AoE and the priest bubble.

 

The rule there says "Treat as an enemy". Your enemy doesnt benefit from the priest. Additionally, the AoE is referenced to the specific "these things" which is in reference to "target with psychic powers, templates or blast markers"