Chaplain Admetus Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Again though, for things like chapter tactics it says "all units in your army". There's probably going to be some jiggery pokery with the wording, i.e. that two individual 'armies' make up a combined 'force', or something like that. I also wouldn't be too surprised if special characters were not allowed to be taken as allies. Makes sense fluff-wise (Dante and a unit of Sanguinary Guard are not going to show up solo to help an entire Eldar army), and strictly cuts down on the amount of cheese and cherry picking available (no picking Belial/Logan just to get scoring Terminators). Mind you, for fun games there's a part of me that wants to run RavenLoganAngelDeathWing... 2 players, 1 with Belial, Termies, Logan and Wolf Guard, and the other player with Sammael, Ravenwing bikers, Dante and Sanguinary Guard. Immovable rock of Terminators, and a fast moving spear of bikes and jump packs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'm actually hoping for a FAQ that states... the following units/pieces or wargear cannot be chosen as an ally when taken from the Codex:Blood Angels: - Sanguinary Guard - Sanguinary Priests(if their chalices are even working for allies!) - Death Company - Infernus Pistols - Baal Predators - Stormravens - Special Characters of any kind The rest, our allies can gladly use, I'm fine with that. Our specialities, the now totally buffed core of a lot of armies, no. Not for a million victories would I ask for Thunderwolves as allies, Necrons or any other kind of ridiculous stuff. I don't wanna actually fight my army in blue, green or whatever colour you may think of. Meh, probably not gonna happen, though. But this is a wishlist in some or another way. :P Other than that...it's pretty cool that fluffy units can be used, such as Grey Knights Strike Squads against Deamons(like in the old days!), but I can hear the lamentations of other gamers when combining the ultracheesy BAs and GKs to form a new cheese alliance, capable of wiping the floor with everybody... This would also be a nice opportunity to use a Land Speeder Storm...but then you have to buy a Troops and HQ choice from C:SM and we dominate both sections easily, so...no. :P Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I guess I don't have the same reactions as everyone else: I'd be angry if the ally system is as limited as some people here want it to be. What's the point if you can't use any cool stuff? No one's going to take tactical marines or any other boring units as allies. As for how a Sanguinary Priest can buff other units? You're creative, think of something. Me, I'll just use the rules and not get so attached to the story behind them. I want units that will look awesome on the tabletop. I want Thunderwolves coming behind my Predator wall. I want a Farseer attached to my Wracks in a Raider. I want Broadsides and Sanguinary Guard together. I want Ravenwing bikers with BA Assault Marines raining from the skies. I want Tycho and some DC to join with Draigo and some Paladins. These all sound cool as hell. If my ally options are simply Captains and Tactical Marines and what not, I won't even bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 As for how a Sanguinary Priest can buff other units? You're creative, think of something. Me, I'll just use the rules and not get so attached to the story behind them. Makes no sense since the Blood Angels are responding to the Blood of Sanguinius itself where other fractions just see some blood in a chalice. No mystery for them, nothing sacred, nothing inspirational. Just some blood in a pimp chalice. I guess I don't have the same reactions as everyone else: I'd be angry if the ally system is as limited as some people here want it to be. What's the point if you can't use any cool stuff? No one's going to take tactical marines or any other boring units as allies. I want units that will look awesome on the tabletop. I want Thunderwolves coming behind my Predator wall. I want a Farseer attached to my Wracks in a Raider. I want Broadsides and Sanguinary Guard together. I want Ravenwing bikers with BA Assault Marines raining from the skies. I want Tycho and some DC to join with Draigo and some Paladins. These all sound cool as hell. If my ally options are simply Captains and Tactical Marines and what not, I won't even bother. Play apocalypse, then. :D Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Ally use is apparently a minimum of 1HQ and 1Troop. It expands beyond that depending on how good an ally they are. As a guess I would say we would be allied with all Imperial forces, Eldar and Necrons (depending if our bromance fluff is upheld) or it may follow the alliance list in the Apocalypse rulebook, but for the moment all we can do is wish for what we want. Personally I would like access to Assassins again as mine have been gathering a lot of dust of late. What would be your ideal allies? I think that this pic will be the answer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.p...mp;d=1340716617 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Is that from the rulebook? That doesn't correspond to all the rumours we've been seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Is that from the rulebook? That doesn't correspond to all the rumours we've been seeing. Yes, its from the rulebook. :huh: As are these : http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.p...mp;d=1340716613 http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.p...mp;d=1340716616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 ...This would also be a nice opportunity to use a Land Speeder Storm...but then you have to buy a Troops and HQ choice from C:SM and we dominate both sections easily, so...no. :) It's unfortunate that the LSS is not a dedicated transport for scouts. That would actually make it a very attractive offer --particularly for an alliance with BA as the play styles really match up well. As it is, being forced to pay for an HQ, and troop choice just to fill up a Fast Attack slot with one BS3 skimmer doesn't sound like a good idea under most circumstances. Also, I'd not discount C:SM as allies, there could be some unexpectedly good combos. Particularly with the buffs to rapid fire weapons, Pedro combined with our own sternguard could be really good. Consider the following 2k list that I threw together quickly: Allies in bold HQ BA Librarian w/ Divination Powers Honor Guard w/ Jump Packs and 4x PG Pedro Cantor Elite 8x Sternguard w/ 2xPG, 4x Combi-melta, PF Drop Pod 8x Sternguard w/ 2xPG, 4x Combi-melta, PF Drop Pod 2x Sanguinary Priest Troops 8x Death Company w/ 7x bolters, 1x PW/BP, 1x PF Drop Pod 5 C:SM Sniper Scouts w/ ML, cloaks 10 Bolter Scouts w/ ML, cloaks, locator beacon Heavy Support 5 Devestators w/ 5x MLs 5 Devestators w/ 5x MLs I'm sure this could be further optimized, but it will serve for a proof of concept. Allowing Sterguard to be scoring AND still have FNP is quite good --especially with the major upgrade to rapid fire weaponry. The Death Company now become a counter-charge unit since they won't rage off after enemies. Even with bolters, you're getting 5 attacks from each on-the-charge (2 base, 2 rage, 1 from Cantor's Inspiring Presence) --6 if you don't care to have them contribute shots down range and go with bolt pistols instead. And of course, that's in addition to the 3 attacks that each Sternguard is putting out, even without charging. • Vulcan alliances could be pretty good considering we can pack in a lot of melta and flame. • Or what about a Stormraven list where all ravens have beacons and you take an allied C:SM Librarian with Gate of Infinity so he can warp around a big squad of terminators between the 'ravens... ...actually, that last one sounds like a lot of fun. I may have to try that out... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Is that from the rulebook? That doesn't correspond to all the rumours we've been seeing. It doesn't? I don't have other armies' ally list memorized like I do ours, but the Blood Angels column is the same. PS: Snorri, given your ideal FAQ list, what would be the point of allying with Blood Angels at all? I understand Sanguinary Priests, but if our allies can't take DC, Baal Preds, and SanGuard, or even infernus pistols on our Assault squads, what do we have to offer? Furiosos? And given the Ally shopping pages on GW, special characters are in, since it's recommending I buy Commissar Yarrick for my Blood Angels army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 PS Snorri, given your ideal FAQ list, what would be the point of allying with Blood Angels at all? I understand Sanguinary Priests, but if our allies can't take DC, Baal Preds, and SanGuard, or even infernus pistols on our Assault squads, what do we have to offer? Furiosos? And given the Ally shopping pages on GW, special characters are in, since it's recommending I buy Commissar Yarrick for my Blood Angels army. That's the point...there is none for me. Look, from a fluffy side, I'm all in this whole ally thing, it can make for some really cool battles, e.g. that where the White Scars and Blood Angels team up on some Chaos Marines, Armageddon and what not. Take some troops, assault squads for example and a reclusiarch to aid your army in need. (sorta). The other side is that this is a pretty obvious(yet effective) marketing move of GW. Sell the gamers more codizes and miniatures or even make them start new armies. Effective, from a company's POV. From a gaming perspective, it's utter rubbish in some cases. Oh yeah, want to fight against my DC and some Thunderwolves and a Lord? Wanna paint that Stormraven in yellow because a Stormtalon isn't enough? Not enough fluff-beating? Send a unit of DC and a Reclusiarch with a big Necron army, they're best buddies and will fight and drink a cup of tea afterwards! basically, the new ally system is Apocalypse in a smaller scale. What are codizes even there for if you just pass around the unique stuff like candy? This is my real deal with it. Marketing and gaming should be two different things, but that's not always possible. :unsure: Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviox Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would be happy with people using BA as allies as long as the priest bubble only affects BA units. I'm really disappointed that GK/DH/WH are only "Allies of convenience" (anyone know what this actually means?). I really want to field my beautiful Coteaz model with some cheap henchmen squad(s) and possibly a Vindicator Assassin. Golden Coteaz really fits in with my similarly painted Dante/SG/Sanguinor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Allies of Convenience act as a separate army controlled by the same player. Battle Brothers will be allowed to share special rules, etc. (Like presumably the Sanguinary Priest?) I'm glad we're only on grudging terms with GK, I'm still upset about the fluff where we appear in their codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'm glad we're only on grudging terms with GK, I'm still upset about the fluff where we appear in their codex. Agreed. Dante came off as a spineless coward in their 'dex. "Sure thing, mindwipe my Marines all you want." Not the way I see him personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Out of curiosity, has there been anywhere in our past fluff that states we have any form of PDF or human auxiliary on Baal? I know most of our fluff but can't remember ever seeing anything referring to that. (Just thinking modelling opportunities rather than focusing on IG allies, per se) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Battle Brothers will be allowed to share special rules, etc. (Like presumably the Sanguinary Priest?) RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeef Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 A simple Allies wish: I have a side project of a Scout Force that I was building even though it was not "approved." I started it back when BA Scouts were Elites and could take a drop pod. Now that squad is moving to a Storm Raven. With Allies, I always wanted a Land Speeder Storm for that Scout-based Army and now I can add one (legally), since I can integrate another chapter's Scouts, maybe I'll add Sgt. Telion too. Yeah... it's not überlist... but totally legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Battle Brothers will be allowed to share special rules, etc. (Like presumably the Sanguinary Priest?) RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE! :D Why, wrongs wrong with that? A only thing that changes a Sang Priest from an Apothecary rules wise when it comes to use is that they aren't attached to the command squad, and instead their ability works with a bubble. As if they are running up to each person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Battle Brothers will be allowed to share special rules, etc. (Like presumably the Sanguinary Priest?) RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE! ;) Why, wrongs wrong with that? A only thing that changes a Sang Priest from an Apothecary rules wise when it comes to use is that they aren't attached to the command squad, and instead their ability works with a bubble. As if they are running up to each person. Sanguinary Priest bubbles come from the Blood Chalices they carry. Through them, the spirit of Sanguinius communicates psychically with his sons to encourage them to fight harder and be tougher. There is absolutely no reason why allied Space Wolves of Imperial Guard should be able to hear him, and even if they could, they would probably think they are going crazy instead of being inspired. This is massive fluff beat, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 No, the bubble comes from their different role, and their Narthicanum. The Blood Chalice in inside their narthicanum. Before this edition, the Blood Chalices had a completely different effect, and what made the healing process different was the use of Exsanguination, where the Sanguinary Priest gave his blood to the wounded battle brother, and his healing rule was even different than the regular apothecary. In this edition, his healing rule is the same, but instead of it being stuck to one squad, it is to everyone in a bubble, and I attributed that to the fact that he is pretty much what the Chaplains are to other chapters. This is why I think they should go back to the old codex for the blood chalices, because that gave them a bonus, rather than "healed" them. The fact that other marines are healed are the result of the narthicanum, which has the chalice in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviox Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'm really disappointed that GK/DH/WH are only "Allies of convenience" (anyone know what this actually means?). I really want to field my beautiful Coteaz model with some cheap henchmen squad(s) and possibly a Vindicator Assassin. Golden Coteaz really fits in with my similarly painted Dante/SG/Sanguinor. Based on http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/06/40k...e-for-what.html it seems that using special characters as allies is forbidden so that kind of trashed my original idea. But I suppose running the GK as main list would be permitted, something like this: HQ: Coteaz Troops: 2+ Henchman squads Elites: Vindicare assassin Allied HQ: Using my company captain with JP+LCs Allied Troops: 2xRAS Allied elites: Unit of priests Allied fast attack: Baal or a VV squad Allied heavy support: Stormraven This could work... Though not being able to combine Coteaz+Dante+SG is sad. Alternatively I could replace the RAS with a DC and the priests with SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 A simple Allies wish: I have a side project of a Scout Force that I was building even though it was not "approved." I started it back when BA Scouts were Elites and could take a drop pod. Now that squad is moving to a Storm Raven. With Allies, I always wanted a Land Speeder Storm for that Scout-based Army and now I can add one (legally), since I can integrate another chapter's Scouts, maybe I'll add Sgt. Telion too. Yeah... it's not überlist... but totally legal I feel the same way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 not sure if i believe the named IC thing just yet. The models they have on show for what allies can buy have a huge compliment of named ICs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Battle Brothers will be allowed to share special rules, etc. (Like presumably the Sanguinary Priest?) RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE! :) Why, wrongs wrong with that? A only thing that changes a Sang Priest from an Apothecary rules wise when it comes to use is that they aren't attached to the command squad, and instead their ability works with a bubble. As if they are running up to each person. You seem to forget about FC...which makes no sense that anyone else should have it. Imagine some guardsmen firing in line, suddenly the commissar orders the charge: - hey man, we gotta charge these greenskins! For the emperor! - dude, who's that guy in red armour? That one with the pimp cup...he's screaming some stuff about a dead dude with wings and :)....I'm feeling angry right now! - Yeah man me RAAAAAARGH!! yes, sounds about as fluffy as a GK Grandmaster leading an allied army of Deamons on Cadia. :D By the way I demand that Priests should not be allies for anyone, neither should their special rules. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Note: Warshrike 2 points 1 day agoOn allies, can you take a Special Character from the army you wish to ally with? permalink [–]Rixitotal 2 points 14 hours ago see no reason why not. By the way I demand that Priests should not be allies for anyone, neither should their special rules. Snorri We dont know if those special rules carry yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 We dont know if those special rules carry yet. It would be simply devastating for both fluff and gameplay. Over at the wolves forum, I think there were some news that Special Characters can't be used in alliances...'twas about yesterday I guess. It's only a few days until the release and still we don't know which rules are true when they have contradicting wordings, depending on the source. Quite funny, actually. :lol: Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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